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Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern

S

Soft Hands

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david l said:
There are issues daily.
Over the past 2 weeks (6 diagrams per day out of 9 or 10 units that 'could' be available) have had 6,5,5,5,4,4, 4,5,4,4,3 starting the day, but not necessarily finishing the day. 769421 has worked 3 days since its first appearance in late July and failed every day. 769431 (one of the overhauled ones) has been missing for over a month.
Every replacement in the last two weeks has been a 2 car short-form (other than 1 today) with persistent severe over-crowding, particularly the units that work in/out of Manchester Oxford Road.
Whilst I appreciate that there are problems all over, I defy you to come up with a set of services that has had so many problems over the past 2 years or so with little seemingly management comment or intervention. The fact that reports aren't on here every day is probably because it would be so repetitive.
Edit:- looks like the 3 out today are reducing to 2 shortly with 769450 retreating to SP in a bit.............with plenty shuffling around and further cancellations later today.
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One of the two "not a 769" diagrams on the Southport to Oxford Road and/or Stalybridge services is now already booked 1 x 2-car DMU, vice 2 x 2-car. So the "planned" service is now already 2-cars down, before the 769 lack of availability makes things worse. That of course, in reality, improves the "% short formed" figure as the 06.05 Southport to Oxford Road etc. is always now 2-cars only!
 
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RailUK Forums

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Bikeman78

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david l said:
There are issues daily.
Over the past 2 weeks (6 diagrams per day out of 9 or 10 units that 'could' be available) have had 6,5,5,5,4,4, 4,5,4,4,3 starting the day, but not necessarily finishing the day. 769421 has worked 3 days since its first appearance in late July and failed every day.
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Why is anyone surprised about this? 769421 was the dead duck of the Welsh fleet. No doubt it was selected for Northern because it has plenty of miles left for it's next C4 overhaul. And the reason it has plenty of miles is because it hardly ever moves.
 
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david l

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769452 sat at SP (been there for 10 days). 3 in use today, 434/42/50. 769458's return from Brodies (5Q36) cancelled today, 37884 has ran from Kilmarnock to AN as 0N36 to take a unit as 5Q38 from AN to Kilmarnock tomorrow. Missing today but not overhauled yet are 424/448 but 450 should also finish at AN tonight.
 
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1D53

1D53

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424 is going next. 448 was used today to rescue a 323 from the Airport branch but has in turn failed itself, 452 is awaiting repairs at Wigan.
 
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thealexweb

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1D53 said:
424 is going next. 448 was used today to rescue a 323 from the Airport branch but has in turn failed itself, 452 is awaiting repairs at Wigan.
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That is hilarious. Did something else have to come and rescue both of them?
 
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Geeves

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I saw 448 pass through Vic and thought to myself it's a nice idea in practice but it likely won't work, at Garswood they tried it and it took so long they had the wires fixed before the 769+323 combo ever moved! I was wondering if the same happened again. Eventually the 323 was able to drive away by itself!
 
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david l

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37884 + 769458 sat at Carlisle. Hope that when 458 comes back, its better fit for service than (in particular) 431 & 456....................let alone 421.
 
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david l

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diligentdave said:
769421 goes off lease this week.
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Ta. 769421 managed 3 days in service from its 'entry' into service in late July, and failed in traffic each day. Presume the financial people might behaving a word with Porterbrook, as the tender issued gave a cost of £400,000 for the lease of 769421/52 for (approx.) 6 months.
Meanwhile 2 in service today. The_Train might wish to comment??
 
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HJ10001

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With the 769's gradually going off-lease (With the impeding arrival of Northern's new fleet), will their be enough Sprinters to cover?
 
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skyhigh

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HJ10001 said:
With the 769's gradually going off-lease (With the impeding arrival of Northern's new fleet), will their be enough Sprinters to cover?
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I think you are mistaken - the only 769s due to go are the pair that were hired on a short term basis to cover for units away for overhaul.

The new fleet isn't anywhere near being ordered yet, so it's definitely not 'impending'.
 
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david l

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Razorblades said:
It may, however I can confirm that 769434 and 769442 were most definitely operational passing or calling at Farnworth around 1pm today.
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Those were the 2 that were out and working. Of the other 4 class 769 diagrams, 3 were covered by a 2 car DMU and therefore shortformed (90% of the time when a 769 is missing)

Of the others 769421/31*/48/50/56** AN, 769452 SP, 769424 Kilmarnock, 769458 en route Kilmarnock-AN.
* overhauled and now out of service for over a month.
** overhauled and now out of service for at least 3 weeks.

Shameful.
 
Killingworth

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We're constantly hearing of failures. Is there a unit that has performed better than the rest, anywhere near specification? Or are they all as bad as each other?
 
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Geeves

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Just from eye ball views at Victoria id say that the 434 and previously 448 and 450 all had good runs. 434 I'd say is the most reliable but could be wrong!
 
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david l

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The 'black' sheep appears to be 769431. Others seem to come and go, but 769456 has also been noticeable by its recent absence. There also appears to have been some shuffling around last night/this morning, with sets not working to diagram.
If there is any pattern, the two that start at AN appear to be the most (diesel) substituted, with the 3 starting at SP being fairly consistent, and lesser so the 1 that starts at NH.
Nethertheless, 4 have started the day today (434/42/48/50), which is 100% improvement on yesterday but still only 75% of the diagrammed use with 1 of the other 2 shortformed.
 
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diligentdave

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Lets put this into a bit of context here. Of the 769's stopped, like it's been said a few have been stopped a while. These are:

769431 - Ran out of miles for it's next exam. Therefore had to be stopped and planned in to meet manpower availability. It then had a UAT on the axles (Ultrasonic Axle Test) where a bearing was found defective. By this time, some parts had been borrowed from it to keep others in service. Some further investigation into the bearing failure has since escalated to the unit requiring 4 new wheelsets, not quick fixes. This unit hasn't had a C4 overhaul for at least 10 years, mainly due to being out of service for Flex and the low miles these units accumulate, so now the bearings on most of the unit are out of overhaul date (C4 was supposed to be summer 26) but now it might need to go away for individual works.

769456 - Required a transformer (for the pantograph system) not an easy bit of kit to get hold of and expensive. So has been stopped for a bit whilst this gets sorted.
 
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david l

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diligentdave said:
Lets put this into a bit of context here. Of the 769's stopped, like it's been said a few have been stopped a while. These are:

769431 - Ran out of miles for it's next exam. Therefore had to be stopped and planned in to meet manpower availability. It then had a UAT on the axles (Ultrasonic Axle Test) where a bearing was found defective. By this time, some parts had been borrowed from it to keep others in service. Some further investigation into the bearing failure has since escalated to the unit requiring 4 new wheelsets, not quick fixes. This unit hasn't had a C4 overhaul for at least 10 years, mainly due to being out of service for Flex and the low miles these units accumulate, so now the bearings on most of the unit are out of overhaul date (C4 was supposed to be summer 26) but now it might need to go away for individual works.

769456 - Required a transformer (for the pantograph system) not an easy bit of kit to get hold of and expensive. So has been stopped for a bit whilst this gets sorted.
Click to expand...
Dave

Much appreciate this view from the inside, and also appreciate your other snippets that are posted from time to time.

However, between them 769431/56 are two of the 'refreshed/overhauled/re-painted' units that have spent months at Brodies in the last year - and whilst I appreciate these were for corrosion repairs, door controls and (not sure C6) it doesn't seem that there is much joined up thinking here that has/had been done, whether this is down to Porterbrook or Northern the customer is suffering badly. Whilst I also appreciate that units cost money, there has also been an absolute waste on (in particular 769421) the exTfW units, which arrived well after the Brodies work started and are now going off lease before half the 8 units have been overhauled and put back in service.
Meanwhile the passengers suffer! There doesn't seem to be even a short term fix here so what can be done?
 
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david l

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Apologies to The_Train............
Fairly standard today, 3 out, nothing from AN. 2 x 4 car & 1 x2 car DMUs substituting.
 
Killingworth

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I see 769434 is out again today. We took a trip to Southport on the first day of operation, 17th May 2021, and coincidentally travelled on that unit in both directions. Glad to hear it's performing a little better than some of its classmates.

Probably the kiss of death to have said that!!

1763724634087.jpeg
 
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david l

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769434 is probably the best of them in terms of recent availability, has been out all week- but working off SP (and not going to AN!!), worked 5 out of 6 days last week, 6 days the week before that! Probably also put the kiss of death on it, must be due for exam or running out of miles soon.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

3 out Sat 22. 434/450 and 458 (first time after return from Brodies earlier this week). Other 3 diagrams for 769's are covered by 1 x 4 car DMU and 2 x 2 car DMU.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

4 out Mon 24, 434/442/448/458. Other 2 diagrams are covered by 1 x 4 car DMU and 1x 2 car DMU.
 
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