Caithness to Penzance in 1913

[Anetos]

What would a journey from Wick or Thurso to Penzance have been like before WW1 and the Grouping? How long would it have taken, how much would it have cost (compared to now with average incomes), and what trains/tickets would have been available for which railways?

 

[Gloster]

One possibility in July 1922 would be:

Wick 08.00
Inverness 15.10
Inverness 16.30
London Euston 07.40
London Paddington 10.30
Penzance 17.00

You probably would have to buy two tickets for this as I would expect you could book right through to Euston from Wick, but then have to buy a separate one from Paddington to Penzance. If you did the journey cross-country you might be able to get a single through ticket, but you would probably have to give the booking clerk at Wick a day or so’s warning as it would be complicated to work out.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Thank you @Anetos for a most intriguing question. I've spent an hour with the 1910 Bradshaw reprint. Just for extremity-ness I thought about a hypothetical brother, living in Lybster, a struggling fishing port even then at the end of the Wick & Lybster Light Railway. Because the line was worked on 'one engine in steam' it needed no signals and this probably meant no telegraphic communication.

The sister of the brother, living in Penzance sends a letter on a Thursday, advising that their mother is dangerously ill and he should come at once. This would arrive in Lybster on a train arriving at 11.50a.m on the Saturday. The sketchy nature of train services meant that the brother would have to catch the 6.15p.m. Lybster to Wick, arriving at 8.01p.m. Time to have a meal in a hotel until being kicked out. Wander back to Wick station to catch the 2.30a.m. (yes, really) to Inverness. The only train of the day. Arrive in Inverness at 9.50a.m, when nothing would be open. There were no trains out on a Sunday. Stay in a hotel overnight and at least be in a good position to catch the 8.40a.m Inverness to Perth on Monday, arriving at 11.56a.m. Reasonable connection to Edinburgh Waverley via Kinross at 12.30p.m, arriving at 1.54p.m.. Another reasonable connection to London King's Cross at 2.20p.m., arriving at 10.45p.m.. At least this had a luncheon carriage. Catch the Metropolitan Line to Paddington and re-book there for a sleeper to Plymouth Millbay, via Bath and Bristol. Depart at Midnight, arrive at 6.49a.m on the Tuesday. Nothing open there before catching the 7.15a.m. to Penzance, arriving at 11.07a.m on the Tuesday.

Meet up with sister to discover that mother has passed away but at least he can attend the funeral the following day. At least he should be able to get home again by Saturday.

The journey would have been about 1,081 miles. Factoring up distance-related fares I would expect the cost to come to about 79s 3d Third Class or 158s 6d First Class (excluding hotel, meals and sleeping car fee - the last two would only be available to those with First Class tickets. So - about £4 or £8 depending on class, just for the fares. A reasonable working wage, for a dock labourer, would be about £1 per week. In a depressed fishing port or local agricultural job, rather less than that. The brother would also have to pay a similar amount to get home. So, at least two months' wages, including sundries or four months' wages for First Class both ways, which would at least have been more tolerable. It would be possible to book from Lybster to King's Cross and Paddington to Penzance. Four pre-grouping companies in total.

I hope that you find that interesting.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I hope that you find that interesting.

I certainly did. Thank you

 

[Dr Hoo]

I certainly did. Thank you

Thank you too. (More than the OP did, it seems.)

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

The other (and cheaper) route would be overnight from Inverness to Crewe on the Euston service (arriving c 0400) and then the first available ex Manchester or Liverpool express to Plymouth via the North & West (aka Marches). I think the GWR through coach Glasgow to Plymouth was a post WW1 invention.

 

[Gloster]

Going via the North & West and using the July 1922 timetable (as in #2):

The 16.30 Inverness arrives Crewe at 04.18
Crewe 10.32
Plymouth North Road 18.16 *
Plymouth North Road 19.06
Penzance 22.10

* The train goes through to Falmouth, but the coaches from Crewe don’t go beyond Plymouth.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Going via the North & West and using the July 1922 timetable (as in #2):

The 16.30 Inverness arrives Crewe at 04.18
Crewe 10.32
Plymouth North Road 18.16 *
Plymouth North Road 19.06
Penzance 22.10

* The train goes through to Falmouth, but the coaches from Crewe don’t go beyond Plymouth.

Thanks. I guess the Highland booking clerk at Thurso (if not Wick) would be familiar with the route, for there were a lot of transfers of naval / civilian personnel between Scapa Flow and Devonport and v.v. in the run up to WW1.

 

[anothertyke]

Going via the North & West and using the July 1922 timetable (as in #2):

The 16.30 Inverness arrives Crewe at 04.18
Crewe 10.32
Plymouth North Road 18.16 *
Plymouth North Road 19.06
Penzance 22.10

* The train goes through to Falmouth, but the coaches from Crewe don’t go beyond Plymouth.

Was there no overnight train from Glasgow to Bristol at that time? Or was it not possible to reach Glasgow from the Far North to connect with it?

 

[Dr Hoo]

Still using the 1910 Bradshaw I've re-worked my Lybster scenario and found that by catching the 10.10 a.m. via Forres on the Sunday (which I had initially ignored as it seemed to be heading in the wrong direction) the traveller could reach Perth at 3.33p.m., then to Crewe by 12.07a.m. on the Monday morning. Unfortunately the through service on the North and West was 'Mondays Excepted' but by dogged overnight perseverance Hereford could be reached at 5.05a.m., Newport at 9.04a.m, Bristol Temple Meads at 10.11a.m., Plymouth North Road at 2.11p.m. and finally the 'Cornish Riviera Express', arriving at Penzance at 5.05p.m. on the Monday. So basically 47 hours of continuous travel with no bed and hardly any refreshment except in Wick.

But quicker and cheaper than going via London.

 

[Gloster]

Was there no overnight train from Glasgow to Bristol at that time? Or was it not possible to reach Glasgow from the Far North to connect with it?

There were Aberdeen-Plymouth through coaches:

You would leave Perth at 15.25 and arrive Plymouth at 10.00, but you could walk through to another part of the train that reached Penzance at 13.20. However, to get to Perth by 15.25, you would have to leave Inverness at 09.05 and arrive Perth at 14.20. To do that you would have to catch the 14.00 from Wick the previous day, which got into Inverness ar 21.30.

I think that is all correct, but it is across several timetables.

 

[anothertyke]

There were Aberdeen-Plymouth through coaches:

You would leave Perth at 15.25 and arrive Plymouth at 10.00, but you could walk through to another part of the train that reached Penzance at 13.20. However, to get to Perth by 15.25, you would have to leave Inverness at 09.05 and arrive Perth at 14.20. To do that you would have to catch the 14.00 from Wick the previous day, which got into Inverness ar 21.30.

I think that is all correct, but it is across several timetables.

Given it's a horrendous journey, that option seems the most civilised provided a night in the Royal Highland in Inverness was affordable.

Given that the Guinness book of records time from Lands End to John O'Groats by public transport is 24 hours less a minute,you can more or less say that the journey time has halved in a century.

 

[WesternLancer]

There were Aberdeen-Plymouth through coaches:

You would leave Perth at 15.25 and arrive Plymouth at 10.00, but you could walk through to another part of the train that reached Penzance at 13.20. However, to get to Perth by 15.25, you would have to leave Inverness at 09.05 and arrive Perth at 14.20. To do that you would have to catch the 14.00 from Wick the previous day, which got into Inverness ar 21.30.

I think that is all correct, but it is across several timetables.

Presumably these through carriages would be seated overnight Perth to Plymouth?

 

[Gloster]

Presumably these through carriages would be seated overnight Perth to Plymouth?

There is no note about them being sleeping cars, just Through Carriages; sleepers are specifically indicated in other trains. So presumably a long night of sitting up: at least those who started from Aberdeen at 12.30 had a better chance of a corner seat. But in those days you wouldn’t be stuck next to someone with cheap headphones or constantly calling to say, “I’m on the train.”

 

[WesternLancer]

There is no note about them being sleeping cars, just Through Carriages; sleepers are specifically indicated in other trains. So presumably a long night of sitting up: at least those who started from Aberdeen at 12.30 had a better chance of a corner seat. But in those days you wouldn’t be stuck next to someone with cheap headphones or constantly calling to say, “I’m on the train.”

Thanks for that info

 

[Rescars]

The sister of the brother, living in Penzance sends a letter on a Thursday, advising that their mother is dangerously ill and he should come at once. This would arrive in Lybster on a train arriving at 11.50a.m on the Saturday.

I hope that you find that interesting.

Interesting indeed. This is a life and death story - literally. In an extreme situation such as this, perhaps it would have been more likely that the sister would have sent a telegram to alert her brother to the position. I don't know how long it would have taken for a wire to be delivered in Lybster, but it should have been significantly faster than sending a letter. Assuming a trlegram arrived by 15.00 on the Thursday, the brother would have been in a position to start heading south rather sooner. As my car's sat nav says "recalculating route" , or in this case back to Bradshaw. Sorry!