When it is acceptable to drop part of a route?

[Teapot42]

The Derbyshire area was one of many affected by Storm Claudio yesterday, and as a result, there are still a few road closures, including a short stretch between Baslow and the turning to Pilsley. Access to Chatsworth was still possible via the B6048, which would add about 5 minutes extra to the journey time. However, neither Stagecoach with the 170 nor TM with the 218 served Chatsworth at all today.

It's Chatsworth Christmas Market at the moment, so there would be significant demand, although also significant delays - it was also Bakewell Christmas Market.

Is it acceptable under these conditions to drop a fairly important part of a route (with no alternative)? Granted it would have meant more delays, or the need to add an extra vehicle, but surely for the traffic demand it would have been worth it?

 

[JD2168]

I suppose with Chatsworth & the 170/218 it is walkable from Baslow so that would be the solution, often happens during events throughout the year where buses don’t serve Chatsworth. Some of the Peak Sightseer’s were started at Baslow during an event

 

[Teapot42]

I suppose with Chatsworth & the 170/218 it is walkable from Baslow so that would be the solution, often happens during events throughout the year where buses don’t serve Chatsworth. Some of the Peak Sightseer’s were started at Baslow during an event

Not ideal without any announcements though. TM never seem to announce anything, but it's disappointing that Stagecoach no longer give updates for Chesterfield.

We were going to go tomorrow, what with the 170 now becoming 2/3 hourly I'm not sure we'll risk it, as the walk isn't short and if you wait at Chatsworth and it doesn't turn up you've got a very long time to the next one.

I've seen buses omit Chatsworth during large events like the Country Fair, but the markets are on for an extended period and are ticket only, so the disruption is usually less. It also isn't giving the best impression when you in effect can't use the bus to get to any events there! It would make more sense to me to have a shuttle bus on from either Baslow or Bakewell and run the normal services omitting Chatsworth to help keep time, but omitting it completely just seems counter-intuitive.

I'm sure I'll get shot down for saying this, but Hulleys usually tried to provide some service unless traffic was impossible. Well, until the last 6 months or so when things really started coming apart.

 

[Ballyheigue]

Derbyshire Council shut several car parks in the Peak District because of the weather, and I think Chatsworth should have made the sensible decision to shut it's house, site and non essential event so all roads could be as clear as possible for council crews to access all storm affected areas without hinderance of traffic, but nope, it's down to money again. Why anyone would want to get wet through at an outdoor Christmas market with no shelter from the wind either is beyond me lol.

 

[Teapot42]

Interesting that both 170 and 218 were running in to Chatsworth today - with delays of over an hour on the 170.

I wonder if no-one checked the extent of the road closure yesterday and just assumed Chatsworth wasn't accessible?

OT for the thread, but the bus stop at Chatsworth could do with being better organised, as a large group missed the 218 to Sheffield as it was crowded and the majority who were waiting for another bus didn't stand aside to make it clear they weren't intending to board.

 

[MotCO]

Should there be special services laid on for Chatsworth? Maybe express services either from Sheffield, or from a suitable park and ride site if one is available? Car parking at Chatsworth is mostly on grass, and given recent wet weather, may cause difficulties on leaving.

 

[Teapot42]

Should there be special services laid on for Chatsworth? Maybe express services either from Sheffield, or from a suitable park and ride site if one is available? Car parking at Chatsworth is mostly on grass, and given recent wet weather, may cause difficulties on leaving.

To be honest, I did think that. Especially as it's also Bakewell Christmas Market this weekend and Baslow is being dug up as seems usual at the moment. Allowing the 'main' service to bypass Baslow and run straight to Bakewell, with a feeder running Baslow > Chatsworth > Bakewell seems a more sensible way to try and keep time. You'd need to do something with ticket validity of course to avoid being charged for both services.

I believe there was a park and ride of sorts, from Peak Village. Not the biggest site and not well located for the busiest traffic flows.

I'd say it also makes the decision to reduce the Sunday frequency on the 170 only a few weeks before the markets started very questionable. The bus out today had a very healthy load, and I wonder how many were stranded by the final bus back to Chesterfield omitting Chatsworth...

Parking doesn't actually seem too bad - they've got an artificial surface down which seemed to be doing a very good job of keeping everywhere accessible.

 

[MotCO]

Parking doesn't actually seem too bad - they've got an artificial surface down which seemed to be doing a very good job of keeping everywhere accessible.

That's good to know. I haven't been there for a few years - time for another visit!

 

[psmith2023]

With the road towards Matlock bath closed no buses can serve Matlock bath or cromford area suprized bus the main company's hasn't got ticket and OAP pass acceptance on trains with emr as far as cromford as people will be stranded

 

[Teapot42]

With the road towards Matlock bath closed no buses can serve Matlock bath or cromford area suprized bus the main company's hasn't got ticket and OAP pass acceptance on trains with emr as far as cromford as people will be stranded

To be fair, this was announced at very short notice so there may not have been time. It's going to affect a fair few services, and there is no easy way around. In an ideal world, EMR would have run a shuttle between Matlock and Whatstandwell, but I'm not sure if there is the ability to do this on top of the normal service.

 

[43055]

To be fair, this was announced at very short notice so there may not have been time. It's going to affect a fair few services, and there is no easy way around. In an ideal world, EMR would have run a shuttle between Matlock and Whatstandwell, but I'm not sure if there is the ability to do this on top of the normal service.

Not possible for a shuttle as only one train is allowed between Ambergate and Matlock.

 

[TheManOnThe172]

I have written to Derbyshire Dales District Council suggesting that they should not licence simultaneous Christmas Market events at both Chatsworth and in Bakewell, as happened this weekend.

Traffic into Bakewell was delayed approx 40 minutes around 11.30 (when I drove via Bakewell, to avoid Chatsworth traffic). Annoying for car users, but much worse for bus operators and users.

Volume of traffic can't have helped, but the main problem was that someone had erected temporary traffic lights at the junction of A6 and "Agricultural Way" (the long service road leading to the large Agricultural Business Centre car park that provides much of Bakewell capacity). The lights had been set to run four phases, two of them for egress from the car park, one for northbound A6 and one for southbound A6. So (allowing for all-red time) under 25% of the time for A6 each way, which simply wasn't enough. The southbound A6 traffic tailed back into the centre of Bakewell, where it clogged the one-way system so that northbound traffic was clogged too.

It isn't clear who organised the lights as they weren't shown on the "one.network" site when I checked later in the day. I have asked Derbyshire CC for information.

Is there any code of conduct or other standard approach that a licensing authority could require of major-event organisers that might require them to have someone on the ground, able to change temporary light phasing if it is causing problems?

 

[Teapot42]

To be honest, having them both on the same weekend isn't necessarily a bad thing - if it's well managed. We were originally intending to do both, however the delays on the 170 and the fact Stagecoach made no attempt to recover or support the capacity demand (afternoon bus was an E10...) led us to decide to drop Bakewell to make sure we could get home.

The ABC carpark in Bakewell isn't that well sited, as two of the main feeders (A6 from Manchester direction, and A619 from Chesterfield / Sheffield direction) pass through the town centre before getting to it. Absent a bypass (not likely to happen due to cost - would almost certainly need tunnels) they really need to get some parking provision on the outskirts of Bakewell on those two roads to reduce traffic in the centre.

As for traffic lights, yes, it would be ideal to have manned ones, but 'intelligent' ones (using cameras and AI to gauge queue length) have been around for many years, yet the choice is always the cheapest one, rather than what would work best. The lights in Baslow were similar - we stopped at the top of the bank just past the Robin Hood on the way in, when we got to the roadworks in Baslow there was no queue at all coming the other way. I'm sure one of the blokes leaning on a spade staring in to the hole would have been better employed keeping traffic flowing better.

(As an aside, Stagecoach don't appear to be intending to answer my question as to why the final 170 of the day skipped Chatsworth, stranding passengers with no way home)

 

[markymark2000]

(As an aside, Stagecoach don't appear to be intending to answer my question as to why the final 170 of the day skipped Chatsworth, stranding passengers with no way home)

I can't answer for your specific issue here, but the industry as a whole seems to be a lot worse than it used to be at 'last trip must run no matter what'. In my personal experience, many newer staff are moving up through the ranks in depots, generally with less care for passengers, and an attitude of 'I get paid whether I put the effort in or not' and so sadly the old customer focussed ways are being lost. Not just the 'last trip must run' but various other things too.