First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[The exile]

The 5 isn't the route is used to be. Whilst it theoretically has the 5 red ex Cymru e200mmc (that seat 40) for a PVR of 5, it manages most of the time with 35 seaters as the reds are often elsewhere like the Bath Spa routes. I think the PVRs are

e200

• 
  
• 2 - 4

That might be perfectly adequate in the off-peak period but is woefully inadequate to provide the advertised (and necessary) frequency in the peak

 

[Citistar]

That might be perfectly adequate in the off-peak period but is woefully inadequate to provide the advertised (and necessary) frequency in the peak

Part of the problem is that routes like the 5 no longer appear to have a peak in the traditional sense, where the spikes in passenger use are between 07 and 10, then from 15 to 18. I've heard suggestion that the seemingly unstoppable spread of student housing has now come across from Southdown and Oldfield in to Whiteway and Twerton, which has been causing some unexpected new demand patterns on the route, especially on weekends.

 

[The exile]

Part of the problem is that routes like the 5 no longer appear to have a peak in the traditional sense, where the spikes in passenger use are between 07 and 10, then from 15 to 18. I've heard suggestion that the seemingly unstoppable spread of student housing has now come across from Southdown and Oldfield in to Whiteway and Twerton, which has been causing some unexpected new demand patterns on the route, especially on weekends.

Though the main part of the problem is the massive difference between the time it takes any one bus to get round the route of the 2 off peak compared with the peak.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Part of the problem is that routes like the 5 no longer appear to have a peak in the traditional sense, where the spikes in passenger use are between 07 and 10, then from 15 to 18. I've heard suggestion that the seemingly unstoppable spread of student housing has now come across from Southdown and Oldfield in to Whiteway and Twerton, which has been causing some unexpected new demand patterns on the route, especially on weekends.

Though the main part of the problem is the massive difference between the time it takes any one bus to get round the route of the 2 off peak compared with the peak.

You're both right.

The growth of student accommodation along the Lower Bristol Road has indeed changed the make up of clientele and affected the way in which peaks impact the 5.

As for the 2, the peak hour traffic towards Ralph Allen School can be horrendous, and it impacts the roundabout at the top of Prior Park and towards Combe Down.

 

[Benjwri]

Seems quite a shortage of buses this week, some Enviro200s on the uni services and Optares on the 1 today

 

[-Colly405-]

I know that fans of clockface timetables will disagree, but is it time to now have different timings on Fridays, due to the general lack of peak traffic?
And is it really customer-friendly to have the driver changeover one stop before the end of the route...?

As an example, this morning my T1...
Willow Brook on time at 0756.
Great Stoke 5 early at 0800.
Waited 6 minutes at Harry Stoke, left 1 early at 0810.
Arrived Broadmead 12 early at 0826, engine off, internal lights off, driver change. Waited 12 minutes and departed on time to go the one stop to the Centre.

That's 18 minutes sat waiting just on that 3/4 hour stretch of the journey...

 

[Metal Mickey]

As an example, this morning my T1...
Willow Brook on time at 0756.
Great Stoke 5 early at 0800.
Waited 6 minutes at Harry Stoke, left 1 early at 0810.
Arrived Broadmead 12 early at 0826, engine off, internal lights off, driver change. Waited 12 minutes and departed on time to go the one stop to the Centre.

That’s absolutely crazy, was someone drinking strong stuff when they were creating that timetable?

 

[nick291]

That’s absolutely crazy, was someone drinking strong stuff when they were creating that timetable?

WECA management so it's entirely possible I say WECA as I believe they set the times and first run the services for them

 

[Marcus Fryer]

I know that fans of clockface timetables will disagree, but is it time to now have different timings on Fridays, due to the general lack of peak traffic?
And is it really customer-friendly to have the driver changeover one stop before the end of the route...?

As an example, this morning my T1...
Willow Brook on time at 0756.
Great Stoke 5 early at 0800.
Waited 6 minutes at Harry Stoke, left 1 early at 0810.
Arrived Broadmead 12 early at 0826, engine off, internal lights off, driver change. Waited 12 minutes and departed on time to go the one stop to the Centre.

That's 18 minutes sat waiting just on that 3/4 hour stretch of the journey...

I agree with you about changing drivers at Broadmead. Presumably it’s because it’s the nearest stop to the bus station where they are based, but as it’s only about another three minutes walk from there to the Centre, I don’t see why the driver change couldn’t take place there.

 

[nick291]

Also noticed a lot more B9TL's out on the 74 lately, does this mean that new buses/repowered Wright Streetdecks are due soon?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

That’s absolutely crazy, was someone drinking strong stuff when they were creating that timetable?

The issue of changing not in the Centre is because, I believe, the issue of vehicles being parked up

As for the slack timings... I don't believe it's a WECA thing. It's because First use the wonders of AI to provide timetabling (hence why Bradley Stoke to Bristol off peak can be 27, 28, 29 or 30 mins and because they're scared of the Traffic Commissioner penalising them for overly late buses. So in the morning, it's given 46 mins but the ones either side are 41 mins.

The thing is that it's one service that has more bus priority than many others so it should be more predictable and robust!

 

[Dai Corner]

It's because First use the wonders of AI to provide timetabling

Even back in the days when I commuted from Woodspring to Bristol and Bristol Omnibus Company schedulers did their work with pencil and paper buses were allowed longer to account for rush hour traffic.

The issue here is that apparently the traffic was much lighter than usual today so the booked timings were too generous.

 

[-Colly405-]

Even back in the days when I commuted from Woodspring to Bristol and Bristol Omnibus Company schedulers did their work with pencil and paper buses were allowed longer to account for rush hour traffic.

The issue here is that apparently the traffic was much lighter than usual today so the booked timings were too generous.

The issue here is that the traffic was normal Friday traffic today, which is much lighter than normal midweek traffic.

Hence my comment about having different timetables for Friday (and possibly Monday) to midweek.

 

[Dai Corner]

The issue here is that the traffic was normal Friday traffic today, which is much lighter than normal midweek traffic.

Hence my comment about having different timetables for Friday (and possibly Monday) to midweek.

Sorry, yes, that's what I meant to write.

 

[Benjwri]

because they're scared of the Traffic Commissioner penalising them for overly late buses.

I always find it odd that they run like this in Bristol but in Bath they have totally unachievable running times and seeing 15-30 minute late buses isn’t unusual.

They also seem remarkably unafraid of any consequences from just running totally different unpublished timetables here.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I always find it odd that they run like this in Bristol but in Bath they have totally unachievable running times and seeing 15-30 minute late buses isn’t unusual.

They also seem remarkably unafraid of any consequences from just running totally different unpublished timetables here.

Any particular routes?

My local routes are 172-4 and they aren't too bad but anything London Road can be horribly disrupted.

 

[Benjwri]

Any particular routes?

My local routes are 172-4 and they aren't too bad but anything London Road can be horribly disrupted.

I find the 1 really bad. Last week found a 40 minutes late one. Uni routes can also get very bad because there is no time for recovery at either end.

 

[The exile]

And is it really customer-friendly to have the driver changeover one stop before the end of the route...?

It saves the awkward situation of the bus arriving - letting people off and then shutting its doors again to do a driver change. At least by changing drivers one stop before (which is presumably nearest the crew depot_ the people waiting for the outward journey don't have the annoyance of have to stand in the rain in front of an empty bus.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Nov 2025 ==

Any particular routes?

My local routes are 172-4 and they aren't too bad but anything London Road can be horribly disrupted.

The 2 in the afternoon peak is very delay (and bunching) prone - all 4 buses in a queue in Dorchester Street at once is not unknown. The fact that there are pinch points in both directions doesn't help.

 

[Marcus Fryer]

It saves the awkward situation of the bus arriving - letting people off and then shutting its doors again to do a driver change. At least by changing drivers one stop before (which is presumably nearest the crew depot_ the people waiting for the outward journey don't have the annoyance of have to stand in the rain in front of an empty bus.

But that doesn’t apply to the T1, which, if running on time, drops on one side of Colston Avenue on the Centre, then waits to run empty via Broad Quay back to the stop on the other side of the road. And there’s plenty of sheltered seating at the outbound stop for waiting outbound passengers.

 

[Citistar]

I always find it odd that they run like this in Bristol but in Bath they have totally unachievable running times and seeing 15-30 minute late buses isn’t unusual.

They also seem remarkably unafraid of any consequences from just running totally different unpublished timetables here.

There are a few primary issues in Bath - London Road and Southgate Car Park gridlock tend to be the worst, possibly Odd Down Red Lion & Glasshouse roundabouts too. But when none are of these are causing problems then buses can be found dawdling around trying to lose time.

 

[ukiki323]

Hello, I'm a new member to this forum having recently moved to Bristol. I'm enjoying the B9TLs and E40Ds mainly, love the blue Citylines Geminis on the 72, 74 etc although my favourite routes would probably be the faster 172/173/376/522 sorts. I'm particularly interested in knowing about routes with new buses on the horizon, not a big fan of electrics so I'd love to experience some of the existing buses before they go!!

 

[The exile]

There are a few primary issues in Bath - London Road and Southgate Car Park gridlock tend to be the worst, possibly Odd Down Red Lion & Glasshouse roundabouts too. But when none are of these are causing problems then buses can be found dawdling around trying to lose time.

Would suggest that the daily Widcombe jam should be in there as well. Badly phased and uncoordinated traffic lights don't help - it is infuriating how often the light giving access to Widcombe parade turn green just as the crossing at the end of the Halfpenny Bridge go red - only the three vehicles between the two sets of lights get through. Even when you do get through, the number of drivers incapable of reading the two simple words "Keep Clear" can thoroughly snarl things up at the other end.

 

[Benjwri]

Would suggest that the daily Widcombe jam should be in there as well. Badly phased and uncoordinated traffic lights don't help - it is infuriating how often the light giving access to Widcombe parade turn green just as the crossing at the end of the Halfpenny Bridge go red - only the three vehicles between the two sets of lights get through. Even when you do get through, the number of drivers incapable of reading the two simple words "Keep Clear" can thoroughly snarl things up at the other end.

I’m not 100% convinced the phasing even makes a difference to be honest, lots of the time there is just too much traffic going through and no one moves because it’s snarled up all the way back.

I do agree though it’s one of the worst bits for traffic, that right hand turn onto Claverton Street is terrible, but im not sure how you would manage to fix that bar disincentivising drivers from using that turn.

 

[Mollman]

Hello, I'm a new member to this forum having recently moved to Bristol. I'm enjoying the B9TLs and E40Ds mainly, love the blue Citylines Geminis on the 72, 74 etc although my favourite routes would probably be the faster 172/173/376/522 sorts. I'm particularly interested in knowing about routes with new buses on the horizon, not a big fan of electrics so I'd love to experience some of the existing buses before they go!!

I think the plan is for most First us routes within Bristol and Bath to become electric over the next year or so. Not sure about the longer distances routes.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think the plan is for most First us routes within Bristol and Bath to become electric over the next year or so. Not sure about the longer distances routes.

Wells depot submitted plans to electrify that site too.

Bath's local services will be converted to electric but whilst I've seen discussion about the X39, nothing mentioned about the other D1/2, 19 etc.

Remember that when new vehicles arrive, there is the potential for some mid-life cascades to take place so doesn't hold true that the older machines will automatically head off. Mind you, it does seem odd to consider that all of the B9TLs are now....OLD

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Mind you, it does seem odd to consider that all of the B9TLs are now....OLD

Absolutely! Most of them were new to Bristol, don't think they ever moved out to other depots? some reason doesn't feel that long ago I was taking shots of them when they were new looking smart gleaming in the Barbie livery, now they look quite the opposite

 

[Whiteway215]

Absolutely! Most of them were new to Bristol, don't think they ever moved out to other depots? some reason doesn't feel that long ago I was taking shots of them when they were new looking smart gleaming in the Barbie livery, now they look quite the opposite

When all the new electric deckers entered service at Hengrove I expected a lot of the 57 plate B9TLs would be leaving but that never happened. Perhaps that will take place when Lawrence Hill and Bath are electrified.

 

[-Colly405-]

Presumably the plans are to keep the gas buses for a good while? But when life-expired they'll be replaced with electrics, or are there gas buses being built currently - seems odd that the gas infrastructure could be mothballed?
And is there a maximum age limit on metrobus vehicles (I know there is/was a maximum age of a vehicle when it first runs on metrobus)? Might they be cascaded to other routes when too old for the m routes if so?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Absolutely! Most of them were new to Bristol, don't think they ever moved out to other depots? some reason doesn't feel that long ago I was taking shots of them when they were new looking smart gleaming in the Barbie livery, now they look quite the opposite

When I first moved to Bristol 20 years ago, we still had Roe bodied Olympians appearing on my local services (albeit usually only in peak hours) but it was mainly Palatine 2 bodied Olympians which I really liked. Then the B9TLs appeared en masse and they seemed so modern - a real step change.

And if I look today amongst the gas buses and the like on the 42-45, there are 3 of those 57 plates still working those routes!

When all the new electric deckers entered service at Hengrove I expected a lot of the 57 plate B9TLs would be leaving but that never happened. Perhaps that will take place when Lawrence Hill and Bath are electrified.

Well, it's a mix of increasing PVRs and the cascading of other fleet out (like the Streetdecks going for repowering).

That said, when Bath's fleet appears, that'll purge a good few.

Presumably the plans are to keep the gas buses for a good while? But when life-expired they'll be replaced with electrics, or are there gas buses being built currently - seems odd that the gas infrastructure could be mothballed?
And is there a maximum age limit on metrobus vehicles (I know there is/was a maximum age of a vehicle when it first runs on metrobus)? Might they be cascaded to other routes when too old for the m routes if so?

Got to consider that the gas infrastructure will be 15 years old when they're life expired (at least) and it's now old technology. CNG produces greenhouse gases so electric buses are preferred.

The question of metrobus routes/infrastructure is an interesting one. The m2 buses are now over 8 years old. In addition, when the m1 is extended, will that require additional resources?

TBH, I'd be concentrating the dual door vehicles on specific routes/corridors where they are of most benefit. It would definitely make more sense to have the dual door ADL e400mmcs on the Bath Uni and P&R services IMO - tbf, many are on the U1-U3 but some are often found on the X39 or 19

 

[lachlan]

There's an open consultation on
the information points at MetroBus stops in Bristol as the contract is up for renewal soon. Personally I while I used to use the MetroBus frequently I never interacted with the information point as I had a bus pass.