Caledonian Sleeper

[rower40]

And that pesky description ‘BLOK’ is in the first berth north of Gretna Junction on the Down Main…

 

[jfollows]

4S47 on the move after six hours, 1S25 on the move also, almost 5h late at Beattock.

 

[Sealink]

Now 41 minutes late at Stanley.

It's the Lowlander that's more shocking.
146 minutes late at Carlisle. Expected to be an hour late at Edinburgh and two hours late at Glasgow.

Would this be because of the landslip at Shap last week?

 

[jfollows]

Stanley?
And you’re reading “41L” from Traksy which is simply wrong.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Now 41 minutes late at Stanley.

It's the Lowlander that's more shocking.
146 minutes late at Carlisle. Expected to be an hour late at Edinburgh and two hours late at Glasgow.

Would this be because of the landslip at Shap last week?

Something's off with RTT. The train from London just passed Beattock +288 but is also recorded as leaving EDB a little late at 0354 and then as you say, at a timing point at Stanley near Perth at 0634 but nothing between or since.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Nov 2025 ==

Stanley?
And you’re reading “41L” from Traksy which is simply wrong.

RTT https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C00467/2025-11-12/detailed

 

[Sealink]

Stanley?
And you’re reading “41L” from Traksy which is simply wrong.

Don't know what Traksy is. Will take a look

 

[norbitonflyer]

Now 41 minutes late at Stanley.

That can't be right, as it has only just passed Beattock. RTT also showing a spurious time at Edinburgh

 

[Sealink]

Something's off with RTT. The train from London just passed Beattock +288 but is also recorded as leaving EDB a little late at 0354 and then as you say, at a timing point at Stanley near Perth at 0634 but nothing between or since.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Nov 2025 ==


RTT https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C00467/2025-11-12/detailed

Indeed, looks like it's going to be 15 minutes late at Inverness which isn't too bad.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Indeed, looks like it's going to be 15 minutes late at Inverness which isn't too bad.

No I'm saying the EDB departure and Stanley pass are either not real or a restarted service with who-knows-what coaches!

 

[jfollows]

Clearly something awry with reporting, it’s just passed Midcalder Junction at 08:22, booked at 03:34.
Or there’s more than one 1S25 being shown.

 

[Falcon1200]

The train from London just passed Beattock +288 but is also recorded as leaving EDB a little late at 0354 and then as you say, at a timing point at Stanley near Perth at 0634 but nothing between or since.

Erroneous reports have somehow been input to Trust at Edinburgh and Stanley. At the latter 0634 is actually the passing time for 6H51 0248 Oxwellmains-Inverness, so probably a manual time entered against the wrong train. Which also corrupts Trust reporting for locations before that point!

 

[GordonT]

Erroneous reports have somehow been input to Trust at Edinburgh and Stanley. At the latter 0634 is actually the passing time for 6H51 0248 Oxwellmains-Inverness, so probably a manual time entered against the wrong train. Which also corrupts Trust reporting for locations before that point!

Sounds like something which should not be beyond the wit of man to prevent from happening?

 

[norbitonflyer]

Now at Pitlochry nearly six hours late

The Aberdeen portion is simultneously shown as canclelled and just left Stonehaven about five hours late

No Fort William portion this week

 

[Bank Foot AM]

Sounds like something which should not be beyond the wit of man to prevent from happening?

A clip round the ear for the Box Lad?

 

[jfollows]

Now at Pitlochry nearly six hours late

The Aberdeen portion is simultneously shown as canclelled and just left Stonehaven about five hours late

No Fort William portion this week

There was a spurious timing earlier on the Aberdeen service also.

 

[Falcon1200]

Sounds like something which should not be beyond the wit of man to prevent from happening?

Human error is always possible, automatic (as opposed to manual) Trust reporting would avoid this but presumably not feasible at manual signalboxes.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Human error is always possible, automatic (as opposed to manual) Trust reporting would avoid this but presumably not feasible at manual signalboxes.

Full TD systems with automatic berth reporting are surprisingly expensive, also the price is system and distance based not on the number of berths, so it winds up more expensive than can be justified a lot of the time, rightly or wrongly

 

[styles]

Bit of a different topic.

What's the reason no other retailer sells berths on the sleeper services except the operators themselves? Are they a different 'type' of ticket which excludes them from the normal retailing APIs which means only seats can be reserved?

 

[MrJeeves]

What's the reason no other retailer sells berths on the sleeper services except the operators themselves? Are they a different 'type' of ticket which excludes them from the normal retailing APIs which means only seats can be reserved?

For Caledonian Sleeper, there's not much extra to do than the unique refund terms. The tickets are pretty straightforward, actually. I believe there might be issues with RARS and how the coaches are stored for the sleeper (e.g., the service has more than one coach with the same letter), but whether these can be worked around or not I'm not too sure.

For GWR's sleeper, the entire ticketing system is unlike any other railway service in the country using supplements to sell a berth. Supplements have a three-character code (SZA-SZK for solo cabins, TZA-TZK for twins), like tickets, and are in the fares data, but are not in the industry reservations system. However, GWR have put in some "ghost" ticket types (QSA-QSK, QTA-QTK) to use for availability in the reservations system against each tier of supplement, which are seemingly completely undocumented. Plus combine that with the fact you can't sell berths with Advances, which has to be implemented manually as well, and it becomes a complete pain to try and handle.

And GWR don't put the berth coach layouts into the reservations system, only the seats, so you can't easily build a berth selector like how you'd create a seat selector for any other TOC's services. Oh, and all of their seats are facing the wrong way around compared to reality too.

There's also some additional accrediation requirements, such as ensuring you provide passenger names and contact numbers when you make a reservation for a sleeper, where you don't need to provide these for other reservations. The reasoning for this is that it's probably more important for a train operator to be able to contact you if your sleeper is cancelled than most other trains.

Raileasy would like to sell berths publicly in the future, but there's no timeline for this.

 

[styles]

For Caledonian Sleeper, there's not much extra to do than the unique refund terms. The tickets are pretty straightforward, actually. I believe there might be issues with RARS and how the coaches are stored for the sleeper (e.g., the service has more than one coach with the same letter), but whether these can be worked around or not I'm not too sure.

For GWR's sleeper, the entire ticketing system is unlike any other railway service in the country using supplements to sell a berth. Supplements have a three-character code (SZA-SZK for solo cabins, TZA-TZK for twins), like tickets, and are in the fares data, but are not in the industry reservations system. However, GWR have put in some "ghost" ticket types (QSA-QSK, QTA-QTK) to use for availability in the reservations system against each tier of supplement, which are seemingly completely undocumented. Plus combine that with the fact you can't sell berths with Advances, which has to be implemented manually as well, and it becomes a complete pain to try and handle.

And GWR don't put the berth coach layouts into the reservations system, only the seats, so you can't easily build a berth selector like how you'd create a seat selector for any other TOC's services. Oh, and all of their seats are facing the wrong way around compared to reality too.

There's also some additional accrediation requirements, such as ensuring you provide passenger names and contact numbers when you make a reservation for a sleeper, where you don't need to provide these for other reservations. The reasoning for this is that it's probably more important for a train operator to be able to contact you if your sleeper is cancelled than most other trains.

Raileasy would like to sell berths publicly in the future, but there's no timeline for this.

Well that sounds like a hot mess, particular from the GWR point of view.

Thank you for the detailed response

 

[Bill57p9]

For Caledonian Sleeper, there's not much extra to do than the unique refund terms. The tickets are pretty straightforward, actually. I believe there might be issues with RARS and how the coaches are stored for the sleeper (e.g., the service has more than one coach with the same letter), but whether these can be worked around or not I'm not too sure.

For GWR's sleeper, the entire ticketing system is unlike any other railway service in the country using supplements to sell a berth. Supplements have a three-character code (SZA-SZK for solo cabins, TZA-TZK for twins), like tickets, and are in the fares data, but are not in the industry reservations system. However, GWR have put in some "ghost" ticket types (QSA-QSK, QTA-QTK) to use for availability in the reservations system against each tier of supplement, which are seemingly completely undocumented. Plus combine that with the fact you can't sell berths with Advances, which has to be implemented manually as well, and it becomes a complete pain to try and handle.

And GWR don't put the berth coach layouts into the reservations system, only the seats, so you can't easily build a berth selector like how you'd create a seat selector for any other TOC's services. Oh, and all of their seats are facing the wrong way around compared to reality too.

There's also some additional accrediation requirements, such as ensuring you provide passenger names and contact numbers when you make a reservation for a sleeper, where you don't need to provide these for other reservations. The reasoning for this is that it's probably more important for a train operator to be able to contact you if your sleeper is cancelled than most other trains.

Raileasy would like to sell berths publicly in the future, but there's no timeline for this.

Another thanks for the comprehensive explanation.

CS certainly used to keep coach letters unique within each train, so no duplicates between portions within the Highlander for example.

 

[MrJeeves]

CS certainly used to keep coach letters unique within each train, so no duplicates between portions within the Highlander for example.

I am sure that's still the case, and it's just a quirk of how the trains are set up in the reservations system rather than how it works on the ground.

 

[MontyP]

I'm travelling south on Avanti this morning, just seen the southbound Highlander in the platform at Carlisle. Looks like it was cancelled south of Carlisle after arriving 191 mins down ...
How have any passengers on this service managed to travel south given that a lot of Avanti services are cancelled and the ones running are full & standing?

 

[side effect]

Its like top secret information. I cant find anything other than its delayed on faster route.

 

[Sealink]

RTT shows "This service was cancelled between Carlisle and London Euston due to a problem with the traction equipment (MD)."

 

[side effect]

RTT shows "This service was cancelled between Carlisle and London Euston due to a problem with the traction equipment (MD)."

Thank you I just couldn't see 1S25 on trsksy at Carlisle. Im travelling to Aberdeen Monday night with my son. Its been 6 years since our last trip and im dreading its cancelled. We have done many for leisure but this time its more important.

 

[Essexman]

I've just booked the sleeper from Fort William to London for 9th September 2026 and it shows arrival time in Euston as 9.30.
Entering different dates shows this seems quite common next year but it's not every day so not due to the Birmingham International stop.
Is there a lot of engineering planned and if so would the dates be known ten months ahead?

 

[alistairlees]

There is and they would be. I can find the exact dates for you if it helps.

 

[Essexman]

There is and they would be. I can find the exact dates for you if it helps.

It’s ok thanks. I don’t mind later arrival and longer in bed then a leisurely breakfast.

 

[Caleb2010]

I’ve noticed Caledonian Sleeper change their arrival times to suit themselves - and to avoid delay repay.

The last couple of times I have travelled I’ve had an email to say arrival time has been amended, but none of the intermediate timing points have.

According to RTT it’s going to take me 46 minutes to get between Camden South Junction and Euston, which normally is booked for 3 minutes.

They Delay repay is taken from the amended arrival time so, if you arrive at 0840 into Euston - you’re only 10 minutes late rather than the 40 you actually are!

Of course that’s an amended time anyway because the booked time is 07:47 not the 08:00 they tell you.