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Introduction of European Entry-Exit Scheme (EES)

FinsburyPark

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BBC reporting that EES in Dover Port will be pushed back to next year for most.

*Lorries and coaches do it but no one else is for now


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

As of 12th Nov, there is no EES running in Krakow Airport, Poland
 
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Benjwri

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Eurostar seem to be doing some EES registration at the booths when it is quiet, but the kiosks are not in use for standard class passengers yet.
 

FinsburyPark

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As a UK citizen born outside of the UK but now living in Ireland I ran into so many issues when trying to fly on my driving licence , with regards to the guards at Dublin Airport that now I just take my passport with me everytime anyway

There was an Irish times piece about the myth of passport-free CTA flying a few weeks back as well
Dublin airport is well known for it. There is no CTA only arrivals section in this airport and arrivals to this airport go through regular passport control.

I am UK Romanian dual national and showed them my Romanian passport as showing then my UK driving licence felt a bit too much of an 'out there' thing to try as its a regular passport control and CTA arrivals including Irelands own citizens have to go through it.

Maybe smaller airports in Ireland like Galway and Knock are more equipped for this but I've never flown from these so YMMV
 

Cloud Strife

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Dublin airport is well known for it. There is no CTA only arrivals section in this airport and arrivals to this airport go through regular passport control.

This is because according to Irish law, there is the possibility of immigration control on arrival from the CTA. It's from the secondary legislation Aliens (Amendment) (No. 3) Order, 1997, which grants immigration officers the possibility of conducting immigration checks on travellers arriving from the CTA. In practice, it was brought about because Dublin Airport was expanded, and so all arrivals passed through passport control without separation into domestic/CTA and non-CTA. The situation still remains despite the large rebuilding of Dublin Airport in the past 20 years, because it allows for much more flexibility in the use of the airport if everyone is funnelled through passport control.

It's the same issue with domestic Irish flights: there is no 'bypass' for them, so they need to approach the desks and say where they've come from. You can show a boarding pass and it's more than enough.

The important thing is that under Irish law, British citizens are not aliens, so there's no obligation to produce a passport or ID card. Photo ID is needed, but that's it, I've entered Dublin before using a bus pass!

I am UK Romanian dual national and showed them my Romanian passport as showing then my UK driving licence felt a bit too much of an 'out there' thing to try as its a regular passport control and CTA arrivals including Irelands own citizens have to go through it.

It's not really an issue. If they doubt that you're a British citizen on declaration, they will simply phone up their UK counterparts and ask them to verify if you're a British citizen or not. The usual practice is that anyone who doesn't use a passport or ID card is usually asked where they've flown from, and if they're a British/Irish citizen. If they've flown from within the CTA, can prove it and the document they hold matches their boarding pass, they'll normally just let you go unless there's something very suspicious, such as the traveller not speaking English or Irish.

I've used my Polish driving licence to enter at Dublin before out of idle curiosity. When they asked, I told them I'm a British citizen that lives in PL and that I flew from the UK. As soon as they heard that I have a soft Scottish accent, they were more than happy to let me through with no further checks. Obviously it helps having a British name and Aberdeen as the place of birth on my driving licence, but generally speaking, they're not really bothering people who are obviously Brits.

BBC reporting that EES in Dover Port will be pushed back to next year for most.

I'm led to believe that they're adopting a very cautious approach to the EES in some countries, because they're simply not sure if their systems can handle a huge amount of daily registrations. I suspect that they will keep the existing arrangement for coaches and trucks until the last minute, possibly with some cars being selected to use the new controls until they're fully in place.

The major issue is going to come when the EES is fully operational and the Port of Dover needs to deal with the inevitable large group of travellers who haven't been through the Western Docks for the EES registration. EU travellers won't have to bother with this step, but I suspect there will be considerable jams caused by non-EU citizens who haven't registered in advance and who won't be able to pass through the French border control as a result.
 

mrmartin

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I don't think the real problem is going to be at Dover ironically. The vast vast majority of passengers are either EU or UK (and UK travellers tend to travel a lot so will be mostly in the system soon).

I think the real issue is going to be at airports like Lisbon and Madrid, where you have a lot of passengers from the UK and _also_ a lot of passengers from long haul destinations like the US, Brazil, etc either leaving or transiting l.

These airports especially Lisbon really are massively struggling already with non EU wait times and they tend to do far more intensive screening on non EU/UK passengers which I think will continue post EES. So unless the EES system is very slick and efficient (which it really doesn't like to be the case, at least until they get the app pre checkin done) is going to be a disaster I predict.
 

berneyarms

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Dublin airport is well known for it. There is no CTA only arrivals section in this airport and arrivals to this airport go through regular passport control.

I am UK Romanian dual national and showed them my Romanian passport as showing then my UK driving licence felt a bit too much of an 'out there' thing to try as its a regular passport control and CTA arrivals including Irelands own citizens have to go through it.

Maybe smaller airports in Ireland like Galway and Knock are more equipped for this but I've never flown from these so YMMV
To be fair - the provisions of the CTA apply only to UK and Irish citizens.

Anyone else from outside the EU requires a separate visa to enter Ireland than the UK.

There was an explosion of people trying to enter Ireland illegally starting back in the 1990s and that’s the main reason for the full checks.
 

FinsburyPark

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I don't think the real problem is going to be at Dover ironically. The vast vast majority of passengers are either EU or UK (and UK travellers tend to travel a lot so will be mostly in the system soon).

I think the real issue is going to be at airports like Lisbon and Madrid, where you have a lot of passengers from the UK and _also_ a lot of passengers from long haul destinations like the US, Brazil, etc either leaving or transiting l.

These airports especially Lisbon really are massively struggling already with non EU wait times and they tend to do far more intensive screening on non EU/UK passengers which I think will continue post EES. So unless the EES system is very slick and efficient (which it really doesn't like to be the case, at least until they get the app pre checkin done) is going to be a disaster I predict.
Another one to watch is Amsterdam (Schipol) airport. Most of it is non schengen and while it has multiple daily UK flights, its also an international hub. Less than one fifth of Amsterdams arrivals and departures are intra schengen, according to my rough estimates.
 

mrmartin

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Another one to watch is Amsterdam (Schipol) airport. Most of it is non schengen and while it has multiple daily UK flights, its also an international hub. Less than one fifth of Amsterdams arrivals and departures are intra schengen, according to my rough estimates.
Yes good shout. I was there recently (no EES yet) and the immigration queue was horrendous. Only 3 people working on the non EU queue and when you got people with "non UK" passports in that queue they would often take 10minutes+, really slowing the queue down.

Curiously the one person for EU passports didn't start processing non EU ones (as 99% of the EU people used the egates) which I thought was curious. Most airports open the EU queue up to non EU people if there are no EU people waiting!

Took longer than the flight in the end, and it wasn't what I would call busy - I'd be surprised if there was 2 plane loads, if that tbh.
 

Cloud Strife

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Anyone else from outside the EU requires a separate visa to enter Ireland than the UK.

Not always, as Ireland does accept visas issued by the UK (or the Crown Dependencies) when it comes to some foreign citizens. For instance, people from Bosnia, Serbia and Kosovo can enter Ireland if they have a valid UK short stay visa.

There's generally a very slow, plodding move by both the UK and Ireland to move towards mutual recognition of visas. An example is the UK accepting that anyone legally resident in Ireland who doesn't require a visa for the UK can travel to the UK without an ETA, as long as they have proof of being resident in Ireland. The fun thing is that Ireland doesn't have any real system for registering EU citizens, so the UK ends up having to accept various strange things as proof of residency in Ireland.

I think the real issue is going to be at airports like Lisbon and Madrid, where you have a lot of passengers from the UK and _also_ a lot of passengers from long haul destinations like the US, Brazil, etc either leaving or transiting l.

Having said that, a lot of South Americans have EU passports anyway, so it might not be so bad.
 

island

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Curiously the one person for EU passports didn't start processing non EU ones (as 99% of the EU people used the egates) which I thought was curious. Most airports open the EU queue up to non EU people if there are no EU people waiting!
It's possible the agent just didn't have a stamper.
 

ainsworth74

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It's possible the agent just didn't have a stamper.
If I was border agent and didn't have a stamper I'd be going on strike. Surely the main perk of that job is the satisfying kerchunk noise the stamper makes when you use it. Why else would anyone become a border agent if they didn't get to enjoy going kerchunk all day with their stamper!?
 

Howardh

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Yes good shout. I was there recently (no EES yet) and the immigration queue was horrendous. Only 3 people working on the non EU queue and when you got people with "non UK" passports in that queue they would often take 10minutes+, really slowing the queue down.

Curiously the one person for EU passports didn't start processing non EU ones (as 99% of the EU people used the egates) which I thought was curious. Most airports open the EU queue up to non EU people if there are no EU people waiting!

Took longer than the flight in the end, and it wasn't what I would call busy - I'd be surprised if there was 2 plane loads, if that tbh.

I've been through Schiphol quickly, think the key is to use budget airlines, such as Easyjet who use a distant runway (maybe that's just co-incidence!) and a far-flung pier - with the bonus that it's avoids the massive Jumbo's coming in from elsewhere so queues for passports in their section are quite reasonable. Although I might just have been lucky! But I think those gates/piers take you to a seperate immigration control than the others, love to know as Schiphol is so massive it's hard to follow!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

If I was border agent and didn't have a stamper I'd be going on strike. Surely the main perk of that job is the satisfying kerchunk noise the stamper makes when you use it. Why else would anyone become a border agent if they didn't get to enjoy going kerchunk all day with their stamper!?
I take it in a previous life you were a bus-conductor happily whirling the knob round and gleefully ripping the ticket out?!! But I bet they take pleasure in
(a) being the first stamp in your new passport
(b) putting the stamp miles away from where it should be - yes, Malaga, I mean you
(c) putting the stamp on top of one already there
(d) putting an invisible stamp on because the pad's run dry!
 

cool110

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Although I might just have been lucky! But I think those gates/piers take you to a seperate immigration control than the others, love to know as Schiphol is so massive it's hard to follow!
Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Depending on how many officers they have on duty, they can close that one and send you somewhere else. After a delayed flight landed late into the evening around this time last year I've been sent all the way around to the other side, though the one separating the Schengen and non-Schengen sides of the D gates.
 

Howardh

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Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Depending on how many officers they have on duty, they can close that one and send you somewhere else. After a delayed flight landed late into the evening around this time last year I've been sent all the way around to the other side, though the one separating the Schengen and non-Schengen sides of the D gates.
Thanks, without exaggerating, it could well be nearly a half-mile walk between controls, and then another half-mile back to collect your luggage! On the plus if a flight lands late then immigration should be quiet. I find the key to use Schiphol is to carry hand-luggage only and also to book time-slot security on return; so far I've been lucky both on arrival and departure.

But regarding EES If I were to travel to, say, Amsterdam and needed EES processing, then I would go via Eindhoven and get the train in the hope of passing through the airport quickly.
 

Mag_seven

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Arrived at ZRH (Zurich airport) today-kiosks did not appear to be in operation. Just went through passport control with entry stamp as normal.
 

FinsburyPark

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As a side note, does anyone know is Cyprus is still becoming a Schengen state on New Years Eve?

It was planned to happen for this date so long as all Schengen regulatory approvals have passed.

The EU via thier social media channels made a big thing of it around April-May this year but all updates on it have gone silent.

I am well aware the dispute between the Greek South Cyprus and Turkish North Cyprus could delay such plans, and possibly delay them indefinately.

The EU has been celebratory about Bulgaria joining the Eurozone on the same day (New Years Day) but nothing new about Cyprus and Schengen.

This year on NYE I will carry a €10 note and toast Bulgaria with a shot. I am a self confessed massive Europhile and as a Romanian, Bulgaria is one of our southern neighbours.
 

Freightmaster

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I was [at Schipol]recently (no EES yet) and the immigration queue was horrendous. Only 3 people working on the non EU queue and when you got people with "non UK" passports in that queue they would often take 10minutes+, really slowing the queue down.

Took longer than the flight in the end, and it wasn't what I would call busy - I'd be surprised if there was 2 plane loads, if that tbh.

By way of comparison, I recently travelled to the USA (Orlando) from Manchester with Virgin,
and from the plane door opening to picking up the cases from the luggage carousel took just
19 minutes, which included having fingerprints and photo taken plus a short chat about where/
how long we were staying, so very similar to the EES process, which proves that it can be done
with enough staff (in case anyone was wondering, we were by no means the first off the plane;
approximately 60 people in upper/premium debarked before us)

A decade ago it was common for this process to take 60-90 minutes, so it's far better now,
in no small part because most UK/EU airlines have moved over to the new terminal C at MCO.


MARK
 

FinsburyPark

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By way of comparison, I recently travelled to the USA (Orlando) from Manchester with Virgin,
and from the plane door opening to picking up the cases from the luggage carousel took just
19 minutes, which included having fingerprints and photo taken plus a short chat about where/
how long we were staying, so very similar to the EES process, which proves that it can be done
with enough staff (in case anyone was wondering, we were by no means the first off the plane;
approximately 60 people in upper/premium debarked before us)
The EES + ETIAS resemble the USA system more or less exactly for arriving passengers.

Yes the EU has given them thier own separate names. Also I don't think the USA has an exit control.

But for arriving (non EU or Non US) passengers a combination of EES+ETIAS closely, if not exactly mirrors that of ESTA and US VISIT* amd the only practical differences are the names given to them

*the name the US gave to thier version of EES where photos and fingerprints are taken and interrogative questions are asked at the border.

I admit I've never been to the USA but I hear they can have border queues and I'm told these are not unheard of. The head start the USA has is they've been doing it for a number of years so teething issues and staffing issues would have mostly been ironed out by now. That said in the morning, afternoon rush hour in JFK, I would suspect queues would be likely.
 

Freightmaster

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Also I don't think the USA has an exit control.
Departures are definitely recorded; as far as I'm aware, it's done by scanning
your passport at the gate when boarding the plane back to the UK.


I hear they can have border queues and I'm told these are not unheard of.
Absolutely. Miami can easily be 90 minutes plus (on a good day!)



MARK
 

Alpine Rider

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Queues for international flight arrivals along the long walk of shame at Geneva airport are apparently getting a lot worse according to several Brits who passed through recently.

I am not greatly suprised by this - reliance on a single central IT system may save costs but has inherent risk during any telecoms disruption.
Plenty of speculation that the iT is already struggling to handle the ever growing data flows hence some EES terminals are still not enabled.

Hopefully the flexible introduction rules set by the EU at entry points probably means this is just teething trouble . However Verbier ski resort has already opened and across the alps the ski season is getting underway with hundreds of season workers arriving. So they do not have long to sort this mess out before Christmas visitors start to arrive en masse and it becomes a complete disaster - the real test is whether they can fully commission the systems at Port Dover whilst traffic is at its lowest level.
 

island

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Departures are definitely recorded;
Correct
as far as I'm aware, it's done by scanning
your passport at the gate when boarding the plane back to the UK.
No, passports aren't scanned at the gate. The airline will either have you enter your passport number at online check-in, swipe It at the check-in desk, and/or they have a tablet scanning biometrics at the gate and matching them with previously taken photos.
 

AlterEgo

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I did EES yesterday evening in Geneva Airport. Took about 2 minutes, no queue. Very easy.
 

Belperpete

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I did EES yesterday evening in Geneva Airport. Took about 2 minutes, no queue. Very easy.
Was that arriving or departing? My experience at Prague of using the kiosks on arrival was simple, no queue, and only added a minute or two at most. However, on departure, the extra checks on fingerprints and facial scanning were noticeably slowing the processing of passport checking and stamping, with much longer queues than I have ever experienced there previously.
 

AlterEgo

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Was that arriving or departing? My experience at Prague of using the kiosks on arrival was simple, no queue, and only added a minute or two at most. However, on departure, the extra checks on fingerprints and facial scanning were noticeably slowing the processing of passport checking and stamping, with much longer queues than I have ever experienced there previously.
Arriving - they had about 12 machines and to be honest it looked like we were the only flight which had arrived - a half full A220, so the area was hardly overloaded.

I depart from Basel later tonight, if they have EES enabled I will report back.
 

Full Standing

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One thing that will be interesting is to see how it works once EES becomes a thing for all passengers in the Port of Dover.
I'll pass through Dover towards Europe by coach around 17th Nov and will provide a report.
I've just been through Dover by coach and a new Police aux Frontières border facility is now operational in the Western Docks. The building seems to be composed of multiple containers put together. It hosts both control booths as well as EES self-service kiosks, the latter seemed to be out of service today (I couldn't take photos as photography was strictly prohibited according to the signage). I didn't notice that any biometrics were taken from other passengers (nor from me, as I used an EU passport).

After having all passengers checked, the bus' doors were sealed and we rejoined the A20 towards Eastern Docks. We were not subject to any immigration checks in the Eastern Docks and directly continued to the ferry check-in.
 

The exile

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I take it in a previous life you were a bus-conductor happily whirling the knob round and gleefully ripping the ticket out?!! But I bet they take pleasure in
(a) being the first stamp in your new passport
(b) putting the stamp miles away from where it should be - yes, Malaga, I mean you
(c) putting the stamp on top of one already there
(d) putting an invisible stamp on because the pad's run dry!
The official at Pisa managed both b) and d) at once. Fortunately it was in 2023 so I no longer have to wait while immigration officials elsewhere play “hunt the exit stamp”. Interestingly - the single word “Italy” usually evinced a knowing smile - their reputation clearly goes before them in more northern climes!
 

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Arrived at ZRH (Zurich airport) today-kiosks did not appear to be in operation. Just went through passport control with entry stamp as normal.

When I returned to ZRH to leave the machines were covered up and my passport was inspected and stamped manually as usual.
 

1D54

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According to news reports Palma de Mallorca airport starts with EES today
A good time for them to get it up and running prior to the Xmas rush so staff will be fully used to it so as to help the usual obnoxious visitors from these shores.
 

FinsburyPark

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The transition to the new system for non-EU passengers at departures and arrivals has led to an increased number of complaints from regular flyers

Looks like Malaga Airport is struggling. Not just due to EES but the E Gates are not always working.
 

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