Ticket office staff insisting on behaving like a website/app

[sot]

I have had my namesake station struggle to issue a ticket due to lack of available itinerary before.

Asked on a Friday for a ticket for Sunday that is a bit of a loophole and partially doesn't have service on the Sunday, they issued it and it turned out it was for Monday - their machine was on journey planner mode!

The person then had no clue how to do it for the Sunday (didn't know to ignore the 'journey planner mode').

I returned to the station on the Sunday said to gateline can't buy the ticket.

Gateline operative did sell it in the end. The same gateline operative attempted to refuse me entry several weeks later with the same ticket.

 

[pitdiver]

With regard to a Booking Clerks lack of knowledge. I was a BC then a Station Supervisor on LUL for ten years. Sometimes a transaction would crop up that you may have never had to deal with. Yes I did receive training but if that type of transaction appears once in those ten years you will be puzzled. I had a occasion at Worksop Booking Office when one member of staff had never seen a LUL issued PTAC. Apparently I later discovered they were quite common in Fort William Booking Office.

 

[speedy1]

With regard to a Booking Clerks lack of knowledge. I was a BC then a Station Supervisor on LUL for ten years. Sometimes a transaction would crop up that you may have never had to deal with. Yes I did receive training but if that type of transaction appears once in those ten years you will be puzzled.

Sure, but I don't think anyone suggested every booking clerk should know every kind of ticket in GB off the top of their head

 

[redreni]

Sure, but I don't think anyone suggested every booking clerk should know every kind of ticket in GB off the top of their head

No, indeed, I was really asking about when a ticket office clerk should use journey planner mode. I'm sure if I'd asked for a ticket for immediate travel to Gravesend he wouldn't have done. If I'd asked for one for the following day then he might not have done either, as he doubtless knows what the time restrictions are, so if I asked for an off-peak he could confirm my time of travel and provided I didn't say a time before 9am, sell it to me.

So this is more about what happens with longer journeys where the clerk won't know all the time restrictions. If I just say I want to travel at these times, please sell me the cheapest valid ticket, then clearly he should be using the journey planner. That's what it's for.

But if I say I want the super off-peak return, I don't know why he wouldn't just sell it? In the end, he's sent me on my way with a printed itinerary that I specifically told him I didn't need or want, which I didn't refer to or follow.

I can understand he may want to protect himself against me breaking the time restrictions and then saying "well, this is what the man in the ticket office sold me", and then trying to make out I'd told him when I wanted to travel and that it must have been his mistake rather than mine. But in that case, wouldn't it have been his most effective course to just look up the restriction codes for me and print them out?

That would be a lot more passenger-friendly than insisting on giving itineraries to people buying flexible tickets for use on routes that have a frequent service and don't allow seat reservations. And a lot quicker.

 

[Timetraveller]

The super off peak ticket from south eastern stations/southern stations via London to the coast on SWR trains has very restrictive timings from Monday to Saturday applied to it. Maybe customers in the South Eastern region have complained about being not aware when arriving at Waterloo that their ticket wouldnt be valid between 4pm and 7pm. Hence a journey plan created to see if this ticket meets the customers needs. Only 4 services valid between 1pm and 2.30pm leaving Greenhithe until after 5.30pm. Return journey is limited to 3 services after midday or leaving after 4.45pm as an example Greenhithe to Bournemouth.

 

[redreni]

The super off peak ticket from south eastern stations/southern stations via London to the coast on SWR trains has very restrictive timings from Monday to Saturday applied to it. Maybe customers in the South Eastern region have complained about being not aware when arriving at Waterloo that their ticket wouldnt be valid between 4pm and 7pm. Hence a journey plan created to see if this ticket meets the customers needs. Only 4 services valid between 1pm and 2.30pm leaving Greenhithe until after 5.30pm. Return journey is limited to 3 services after midday or leaving after 4.45pm as an example Greenhithe to Bournemouth.

The ticket I wanted has restriction UP. The origin was Slade Green rather than Greenhithe. On the outbound leg you have a fairly wide window after 12pm to get to your preferred London Terminal in time to leave before 4pm.

You don't necessarily have to go via Waterloo: the 15:51 from London Bridge towards Three Bridges would be fine: nothing to say you can't change onto a Portsmouth train during the 4pm to 7pm period as long as you're not boarding at a London Terminal or Clapham Junction.

There are no evening peak restrictions on the return leg.

Anyway, no matter how onerous the restriction, although a passenger who says "I am aware of the restrictions and I will follow them" might complain subsequently that they didn't realise what the restrictions were, if they do they can and should be ignored.

 

[Sleepy]

Well, it got sorted, albeit slowly with no quibbling after the initial confusion. The supervisor knew so I guess it hadn’t come up for this member of staff before.

Some Norwich ticket office staff are very new (Sleeper bookings are completed easily however )

 

[sheff1]

Surely it should be regarded as a relatively complex role, both in terms of the knowledge required and the customer care skills, rather than a dumping ground?

It certainly was when I got a job in the booking office at a major station back in the early 70s.
Before the job was offered I had to pass a 'test' primarily around geographical knowledge of the GB rail network along with questions around customer service. Once accepted, there was a course about how to use the fares manuals followed by a period being mentored using the ticket issuing machines and writing out the more unusual tickets which the machines were not able to issue, initially at an advance bookings window before finally gravitating to the immediate travel windows.

When changes regarding ticketing issues were communicated via circulars we were given time to amend our own personal manuals as necessary. Other shared manuals and documents were updated on a rota basis.

Very obviously, things are different now.

 

[thedbdiboy]

It certainly was when I got a job in the booking office at a major station back in 1972.
Before the job was offered I had to pass a 'test' primarily around geographical knowledge of the GB rail network along with questions around customer service. Once accepted, there was a course about how to use the fares manuals followed by a period being mentored using the ticket issuing machines and writing out the more unusual tickets which the machines were not able to issue, initially at an advance bookings window before finally gravitating to the immediate travel windows.

When changes regarding ticketing issues were communicated via circulars we were given time to amend our own personal manuals as necessary. Other shared manuals and documents were updated on a rota basis.

Very obviously, things are different now.

A not dissimilar process applied to me in 1987. But back then there were no TVMs (not even Quickfare machines), no internet, no apps and a very limited telesales business so every single ticket was sold across the counter. These days the pattern is very different and for most stations only a minority of tickets are sold via a ticket office. That certainly doesn't justify the failings but for many people the ticket office is something they never use.
Personally, if I need a specific walk up ticket I just get it from the TVM, our local ones can do anywhere-to-anywhere and advance dated tickets so I don't see much point trying to negotiate with a ticket clerk.

 

[TUC]

It certainly was when I got a job in the booking office at a major station back in the early 70s.
Before the job was offered I had to pass a 'test' primarily around geographical knowledge of the GB rail network along with questions around customer service. Once accepted, there was a course about how to use the fares manuals followed by a period being mentored using the ticket issuing machines and writing out the more unusual tickets which the machines were not able to issue, initially at an advance bookings window before finally gravitating to the immediate travel windows.

When changes regarding ticketing issues were communicated via circulars we were given time to amend our own personal manuals as necessary. Other shared manuals and documents were updated on a rota basis.

Very obviously, things are different now.

That is surely how it still should be now, updated for technology and phenomena such as split ticketing.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Before the job was offered I had to pass a 'test' primarily around geographical knowledge of the GB rail network along with questions around customer service.

Sadly the majority of newer colleagues I work with wouldn't have a clue about the Geography of the UK Rail network, even when it comes to major cities.

I'm not saying they should be a geek like myself, with be being a rail enthusiast (hence me being on here!) but it does help sometimes, particularly when I explain to colleagues how service disruption on a line we don't directly serve could affect us.

 

[ainsworth74]

Given Norwich is well outside the former Network SouthEast area (the boundary station on the Great Eastern Main Line being Manningtree), it's not entirely surprising that staff are unfamiliar with the offer as I suspect the vast majority of discounted Railcard purchases will be made closer to London.

If Redcar Central can do it then Norwich has no excuse

 

[Haywain]

In each case formed by incrementing the last letter of the normal code by one, if I'm not mistaken (YNG, FAM, etc.)

Not in every case - the normal code for a Network Railcard is NEW.

 

[ChrisC]

Sadly the majority of newer colleagues I work with wouldn't have a clue about the Geography of the UK Rail network, even when it comes to major cities.

I’ve noticed when watching University Challenge how poor the knowledge of the Geography of the UK is with some students. Some are so knowledgeable about obscure and complex subjects about which I don’t even understand the question, yet fail on what to me are basic questions on UK Georgraphy.

 

[Haywain]

I’ve noticed when watching University Challenge how poor the knowledge of the Geography of the UK is with some students. Some are so knowledgeable about obscure and complex subjects about which I don’t even understand the question, yet fail on what to me are basic questions on UK Georgraphy.

The reality is that for many people the availability of journey planners and sat nav systems removes any requirement to look at a map and visual the geography of the country. And many others just aren’t interested.

 

[TUC]

The reality is that for many people the availability of journey planners and sat nav systems removes any requirement to look at a map and visual the geography of the country. And many others just aren’t interested.

That is no reason for not expecting an understanding of it to form part of recruitment and training. It doesn't take much to look at a map of the GB rail network, with the main lines highlighted, and understand how it is made up.

 

[MrJeeves]

That is surely how it still should be now, updated for technology and phenomena such as split ticketing.

I would suggest that nowadays the salary for those working in ticket offices is low enough that most won't be incentivised to do the best that they could.

 

[redreni]

I would suggest that nowadays the salary for those working in ticket offices is low enough that most won't be incentivised to do the best that they could.

It's the reluctance to sell tickets that gets me. When they must know the last time the DfT tried to get rid of them, low sales figures were used as part of the argument for scrapping them.

In the time he spent finding me an itinerary I didn't want, 4 or 5 people gave up waiting and went to the TVM, including one who wanted a ticket for immediate travel to Leeds. If anyone scrutinises the number of tickets sold and the amount of money taken by that ticket office that day, it'll be less than it might have been.

 

[urbophile]

I’ve noticed when watching University Challenge how poor the knowledge of the Geography of the UK is with some students. Some are so knowledgeable about obscure and complex subjects about which I don’t even understand the question, yet fail on what to me are basic questions on UK Georgraphy.

I've noticed that too. It must be down to Google Maps etc; with an old-fashioned atlas or A to Z it was easy to see how places related to one another. A satnav for example will take you (usually) unerringly from point A to point B, and you wouldn't know if you were driving through desert or half a kilometre from the biggest or most interesting cities on earth.

The lack of printed railway timetables has a similar effect. You don't get the whole picture.

 

[RJ]

I would suggest that nowadays the salary for those working in ticket offices is low enough that most won't be incentivised to do the best that they could.

That’s an entitled mentality though. I’m probably one of the lowest, if not the lowest salaried TOC employees in the UK but I took the job and just get on with it.

 

[MrJeeves]

That’s an entitled mentality though.

Given the posts earlier about people being "dumped" into that job for all sorts of reasons, maybe they're exactly the sort of person who would end up with that kind of mentality where others wouldn't?

I'm not sure whether or not those moved to these roles after they are unable to continue in their existing role have their compensation adjusted to that of new entrants to the role, or whether they stay on whatever level they were on prior though.

 

[Haywain]

That’s an entitled mentality though. I’m probably one of the lowest, if not the lowest salaried TOC employees in the UK but I took the job and just get on with it.

But you have an interest in what you are doing, unlike many ticket office staff who regard it as just a job.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Nov 2025 ==

I'm not sure whether or not those moved to these roles after they are unable to continue in their existing role have their compensation adjusted to that of new entrants to the role, or whether they stay on whatever level they were on prior though.

They are displaced by reasons of health and therefore retain the same salary as before, for a significant period at least.

 

[RJ]

But you have an interest in what you are doing, unlike many ticket office staff who regard it as just a job.

I don't really, 99% of sales are Travelcards and returns to the nearest town. However it's not a good use of my time to sit there generating complaints and arguing with customers who've come with the reasonable expectation of information and ticket purchase. It is more effort to do that than be helpful.

 

[Haywain]

I don't really,

I disagree - the very fact that you are posting here shows you do have an interest in matters of the railway and ticketing.

 

[Cambus731]

I would suggest that nowadays the salary for those working in ticket offices is low enough that most won't be incentivised to do the best that they could.

The pay and conditions aren’t that bad you know. I generally earn 40-44k. And that comes with a roster where I work 48 days out of every 84.
And I get 33 (I think) days leave a year. Probably a reasonable remuneration considering how incredibly difficult and stressful the role actually is in reality.

 

[sheff1]

I would suggest that nowadays the salary for those working in ticket offices is low enough that most won't be incentivised to do the best that they could.

Lots of people in lowly paid jobs still take pride in doing the best then can*
It seems from posts on here that ticket office staff (and others, e.g. barrier staff) are not given the training they need to do a better job so the 'best they can' is not the best they could, and would, do with better training.

* not that a booking office job is lowly paid compared to the national average if post #55 is a typical salary

 

[Haywain]

not that a booking office job is lowly paid compared to the national average if post #55 is a typical salary

I suspect that figure includes shift allowances and possibly overtime.

 

[Cambus731]

I suspect that figure includes shift allowances and possibly overtime.

shift allowance yes, which isn’t unreasonable. But I do very little overtime these days, mainly because the role has become so demanding and stressful and at my age, I value my work/life balance. Nevertheless, in exchange for what is a probably a decent fiscal renumeration, I do make the effort to be as helpful as I possibly can be to the customers. As do my colleagues. It may sound corny, but it is a good feeling to have genuinely helped people. And also to infer when someone knows what they want and do not require help.
Unfortunately it is true that training is poor these days. When I joined the railway, Network Southeast would spend about four or five months training someone to be a booking clerk before letting them loose on their own. That’s gone out of the window now. I don’t claim to know absolutely everything about the role. Nobody in my office would make that claim , but if anything unusual does crop up, we do make the effort to find the necessary information.
I do quite genuinely believe that there is a general perception that the role is an easy unchallenging stress-free one. Well it damn well isn’t. I’ve seen many people go sick with stress, one of whom sadly drank himself into an early grave. Which is why I never make assumptions about what other people’s roles may entail. Virtually every role in any walk of life has more to it than is immediately apparent

 

[janb]

* not that a booking office job is lowly paid compared to the national average if post #55 is a typical salary

It clearly varies. Further north its 30k with potential for more if you like overtime.