Set down only at Rugby

[JBuchananGB]

There is a (possibly apocryphal) account elsewhere of a service ex Paddington to the west country booked as "pick up only" at Reading which was popular with Reading commuters, but on one occasion, to make up time, skipped the call at Reading making the next call Exeter. No announcements were made on board of course as it wouldn't have affected any passengers! Has this ever be known to occur for trains booked "pick up only" at Rugby (or Watford, or Milton Keynes or other locations on the WCML)?

 

[td97]

Departing northbound from Euston, the xx53 Manchester restriction can be circumvented by using the xx46 LNWR Crewe service and changing at Milton Keynes, providing the 7 minute earlier departure isn't too much of an inconvenience.

 

[Trainbike46]

The only reason I can think of why the trains have been marked as "set down only" (northbound) and "pick up only" (southbound) is to prevent people from being offered split tickets at Rugby by Trainline and other split ticketing retailers.

I've seen the same thing happen on Liverpool services - which is very passenger-unfriendly from Avanti, and really needs to be stamped out ASAP.

It's utterly unacceptable that they're preventing real journey opportunities between stations the train calls at anyway.

 

[Starmill]

I've seen the same thing happen on Liverpool services - which is very passenger-unfriendly from Avanti, and really needs to be stamped out ASAP.

It's utterly unacceptable that they're preventing real journey opportunities between stations the train calls at anyway.

It may be worth asking your MP to write to the rail minister about this. They can lobby for the restrictions to be removed.

 

[Trainbike46]

It may be worth asking your MP to write to the rail minister about this. They can lobby for the restrictions to be removed.

My MP, representing a part of Belfast, unfortunately has zero interest in GB rail matters, even when it directly affects Northern Ireland (e.g. SailRail). I could write to them I guess but their team will definitely ignore it

 

[Starmill]

My MP, representing a part of Belfast, unfortunately has zero interest in GB rail matters, even when it directly affects Northern Ireland (e.g. SailRail). I could write to them I guess but their team will definitely ignore it

Their office should agree to assist you with case work in any part of the country. Obviously if it's a more policy related item as this may be then they may not be as helpful and certainly won't be too familiar with the details of trains in Rugby.

 

[AlterEgo]

Their office should agree to assist you with case work in any part of the country. Obviously if it's a more policy related item as this may be then they may not be as helpful and certainly won't be too familiar with the details of trains in Rugby.

If it's a nationalist MP they aren't going to give a toss. Probably Claire Hanna of the SDLP I'd guess. Nobody would write to a Sinn Fein MP about a matter in England.

 

[Starmill]

If it's a nationalist MP they aren't going to give a toss. Probably Claire Hanna of the SDLP I'd guess. Nobody would write to a Sinn Fein MP about a matter in England.

At the end of the day the democratic protest is the only one available for the poster to express their view. Writing to a SF MP would indeed be pointless, but not quite so pointless as writing to Avanti would be.

 

[TUC]

LNER appear to be playing a similar silly game to avoid split ticketing by turning Stevenage into pick up/set down only from the December timetable change. It is deeply passenger-unfriendly.

 

[Starmill]

LNER appear to be playing a similar silly game to avoid split ticketing by turning Stevenage into pick up/set down only from the December timetable change. It is deeply passenger-unfriendly.

The big difference is that Off Peak tickets are less restricted between Manchester and Rugby.

 

[Haywain]

The big difference is that Off Peak tickets are less restricted between Manchester and Rugby.

And there is not a significant journey time difference for London to Stevenage between LNER and GN/Thameslink.

 

[John R]

LNER appear to be playing a similar silly game to avoid split ticketing by turning Stevenage into pick up/set down only from the December timetable change. It is deeply passenger-unfriendly.

Surely that is more an attempt to ensure that its services are kept clear of the Stevenage - London flow, and more importantly the London - Stevenage flow. Which makes some sense in the northbound direction, as they don't want long distance travellers unable to board at KX because the train is choc full of Stevenage commuters.

 

[Wallsendmag]

LNER appear to be playing a similar silly game to avoid split ticketing by turning Stevenage into pick up/set down only from the December timetable change. It is deeply passenger-unfriendly.

Not sure that has anything to do with split ticketing

 

[Haywain]

Surely that is more an attempt to ensure that its services are kept clear of the Stevenage - London flow, and more importantly the London - Stevenage flow.

And, even more important, Project Oval.

 

[greyman42]

Me and 2 or 3 others got onboard, and ended up delaying the train 5 minutes as the dispatcher and guard searched the entire train for all of us. The dispatcher took a liking to me personally and ended up screaming at me, accusing me of attempting to defraud the railway and calling me a liar amongst various other insults and abuse! They then spent the next half an hour pointing at me and mentioning me to their colleagues.

I thought that delaying the train and making it late was to be avoided if at all possible?

 

[Starmill]

I thought that delaying the train and making it late was to be avoided if at all possible?

That's a management view in the vast majority of the industry yes. The front line view may differ.

 

[greyman42]

That's a management view in the vast majority of the industry yes. The front line view may differ.

Then management should be engaging with staff regarding delaying trains over a non-problem.

 

[Starmill]

Then management should be engaging with staff regarding delaying trains over a non-problem.

Yes, absolutely.

 

[Haywain]

Then management should be engaging with staff regarding delaying trains over a non-problem.

Given that 5 minutes of 'overtime' at a station will result in an incident being raised under the delay attribution process, it is highly likely that it was investigated after the event.

 

[Hadders]

LNER appear to be playing a similar silly game to avoid split ticketing by turning Stevenage into pick up/set down only from the December timetable change. It is deeply passenger-unfriendly.

Agreed. There has been quite a large backlash locally about the reduction in service. The local MP is involved and has been quite vocal about it. Whether anything ends up being done remains to be seen.

Surely that is more an attempt to ensure that its services are kept clear of the Stevenage - London flow, and more importantly the London - Stevenage flow. Which makes some sense in the northbound direction, as they don't want long distance travellers unable to board at KX because the train is choc full of Stevenage commuters.

Ah, that old chestnut again!

Stevenage has become a more important boarding point for passengers travelling to and from the north as the service has improved. With pick-up and set down restrictions, it means that for every passenger boarding or alighting at Stevenage there'll now be an empty seat between Stevenage and Kings Cross. It makes sense for those seats to be used by Stevenage passengers.

And, even more important, Project Oval.

I was told by LNER management at a meet the management event at Stevenage that the only reason for pick-up/set down restrictions at Stevenage was to save a few seconds on each station call to make the new timetable 'work'.

The reality, for anyone familiar with the layout at Stevenage station, is that it will be all but impossible to enforce pick-up and set down restrictions. Reading and Watford Junction are often used as examples but Reading has only a handful of trains that are pick-up and set down. The station layout at Watford makes pick-up/set down restrictions a little easier because the tracks are paired by use rather than direction. At Stevenage the fast and slow lines are either side of an the same platform.

Here's an example from today about why this simply won't work. I was intending to travel on the 13:06 GTR service from Stevenage to London, which was scheduled to depart from platform 1. It was running four minutes late. In the meantime the 13:09 LNER train arrived on platform 2, the other side of the same island platform. People just simply got on the LNER train. You simply get the first train that arrives.

Both the LNER train and GTR trains are full length trains, local door isn't an option (because there were many alighting passengers) and so unless a significant number of additional staff are employed to phisically prevent passengers from boarding I simply cannot see it working.

At the 'meet the management event' I pointed all this out to the LNER management and it seeed to me that they were totally unaware of this potential issue....

This is before we get to what happens when GTR falls over (as regularly happens) and LNER are needed to assist to get people to their destination....

 

[Starmill]

Which makes some sense in the northbound direction, as they don't want long distance travellers unable to board at KX because the train is choc full of Stevenage commuters.

It isn't a serious issue on the current services.