some at least seem to have been "shallow" enough (i.e. above sea level) for their collapses to undermine the railway tunnel track bed, and some were presumably higher than the railway too for the contaminated drainage to be coming out through the railway tunnel...
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Closure of Bransty Tunnel (near Whitehaven) expected until further notice
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Travelmonkey
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Not a simple fix. I am glad I did the full line when I did. Although it is definitely going to need alot of work meanwhile residents have a split service.
Am I right in thinking that with this latest update some of Heatons 156s are now permanently stuck the wrong side of the closure with no way of getting back to Heaton Depot so will have to keep going back to Newton Heath for works instead?
YorkshireBear
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Well they aren't permanently stuck as 156s are cleared on many alternative routes to get them to Heaton if absolutely required.
It might just make more sense to send them to Newton Heath.
Pinus contorta
Member
Visited one or two opencast sites in Lancashire when I was a student. I distinctly remember the Geologist that was showing us round, pointing out how shallow / close to the surface some of the Victorian era seams were and obviously how everything was interconnected , as is the case at Whitehaven.
StoneRoad
Member
Mines were often interconnected for ventilation, pumping out water and also escape routes for miners.
I was underground at [I think] Westoe Pit, South Shields during an open day and the deputy showing us around pointed out a narrow tunnel he said was one of the connections for that purpose. We had already gone through an "air door" on the ventilation system.
I was underground at [I think] Westoe Pit, South Shields during an open day and the deputy showing us around pointed out a narrow tunnel he said was one of the connections for that purpose. We had already gone through an "air door" on the ventilation system.
yoyothehobo
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The problem with mining related issues is that we have very sketchy details of where workings actually are or whether they actually exist or not and to what extent they were worked in the first place.
Excerpt from BGS 1:10K geological map
The map above shows the line of the tunnel and how it passes through faults and coal seams (particularly the main and yard seams). Note that this is the outcrop of the coal so based on local dip the actual intersection of coal seams with the tunnel will vary, but thats just your starting point. Locating workings is very difficult, especially when looking at pillar and stall type mining.
Excerpt from BGS 1:10K geological map
The map above shows the line of the tunnel and how it passes through faults and coal seams (particularly the main and yard seams). Note that this is the outcrop of the coal so based on local dip the actual intersection of coal seams with the tunnel will vary, but thats just your starting point. Locating workings is very difficult, especially when looking at pillar and stall type mining.
StoneRoad
Member
Very interesting - confirms what I had read somewhere recently, that the coalfield under / near Whitehaven was complicated by faults etc.
Owner's mapping [pre the NCB] was, I think, somewhat "lax" - partly because the extent of underground workings was part of how the taxation was calculated, so it was beneficial to understate that ...
Owner's mapping [pre the NCB] was, I think, somewhat "lax" - partly because the extent of underground workings was part of how the taxation was calculated, so it was beneficial to understate that ...
Kite159
Veteran Member
Agreed, if need be I'm sure those Heaton 156s can head to Newcastle via Leeds & the ECML if absolutely necessary, although it's not like Newton Heath don't already know about 156s.
ScottGallagher
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Mcr Warrior
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Indeed. But not for well over 60 years, presumably? Maybe longer!
ScottGallagher
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Though never a civil or mining engineer I was trained as an Electrical engineer by the now long defunct National Coal Board I can recall many tails and have observed the aftermath of what fault lines in coal seams can cause. Quite often flooding, they nearly lost the Selby complex due to fault lines, twice.
So back to the tunnel in question, that 'James Pit fault' looks ominous as it passed through the line of the tunnel, a good area for collapse and water ingress. I would hope Network Rails civil team will have looked at it closely, but I am just a retired electrical engineer, with mining experience so what do I know!
So back to the tunnel in question, that 'James Pit fault' looks ominous as it passed through the line of the tunnel, a good area for collapse and water ingress. I would hope Network Rails civil team will have looked at it closely, but I am just a retired electrical engineer, with mining experience so what do I know!
yoyothehobo
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The problem is that the dip of the coal seam being around 90 degrees to the tunnel means that any horizontal adit linking seams may pass under the railway.
I think it was the mid 1800s when mines were required to have accurate plans.
FAults are common within all coal fields, they just appear more common due to the greater level of mapping.
The biggest things are voiding beneath the tracks and the orange water suddenly appearing within the tunnel.
Its a very awkward and tricky situation to unpick
I think it was the mid 1800s when mines were required to have accurate plans.
FAults are common within all coal fields, they just appear more common due to the greater level of mapping.
The biggest things are voiding beneath the tracks and the orange water suddenly appearing within the tunnel.
Its a very awkward and tricky situation to unpick
Travelmonkey
Member
Pathing on the Carlisle>Newcastle as ECS would probably be way easier than trying to squeeze them via the WCML for the time being.
They can't get to Carlisle.
StoneRoad
Member
Will be heading over to Whitehaven later this week, and will have the opportunity to nose around at what's happening ...
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
That was quite interesting ... Had a few conversations with some locals.
The filtration plant in use normally produces crystal clear water --- it is just occasionally it doesn't. And on the evening of the 26th, the beck was looking more like tomato soup than a stream of water ! but it was OK again the following morning.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
That was quite interesting ... Had a few conversations with some locals.
The filtration plant in use normally produces crystal clear water --- it is just occasionally it doesn't. And on the evening of the 26th, the beck was looking more like tomato soup than a stream of water ! but it was OK again the following morning.
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StoneRoad
Member
Spotted this on the BBC
quote ...
A plan to divert orange water from a harbour out to sea has been approved.
Tests identified iron ochre getting into Whitehaven's Queens Dock in Cumbria through a culvert which was draining water from a railway tunnel, resulting in the discolouration.
Nearly three years on, the Whitehaven Harbour Taskforce has approved a solution to build a pipeline to divert the water from the culvert through the harbour wall, where it will be released on the foreshore north of the harbour.
from here
www.bbc.co.uk
All that a pipeline will do is kick the pollution out to sea - a bit like untreated sewage in the bad old days.
or the North Beach will end up discoloured, somewhat like the harbour walls.
quote ...
A plan to divert orange water from a harbour out to sea has been approved.
Tests identified iron ochre getting into Whitehaven's Queens Dock in Cumbria through a culvert which was draining water from a railway tunnel, resulting in the discolouration.
Nearly three years on, the Whitehaven Harbour Taskforce has approved a solution to build a pipeline to divert the water from the culvert through the harbour wall, where it will be released on the foreshore north of the harbour.
from here
Whitehaven harbour's orange water to be diverted out to sea, under plan
A taskforce led by a local MP approves proposals that would see a new pipeline built.
www.bbc.co.uk
All that a pipeline will do is kick the pollution out to sea - a bit like untreated sewage in the bad old days.
or the North Beach will end up discoloured, somewhat like the harbour walls.
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By which of course we include today!
OhNoAPacer
Member
Many people in Whitehaven wouldn't want to give anything to Workington, not even pollution
A comment on the Transpennine thread referencing Farnworth tunnel reminded me that I hadn't heard anything from Bransty for a while...
I found https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/latest-update-on-whitehaven-tunnel-repairs# which I don't think we have linked, although it dates from 18 Sept.
Anybody know or heard anything more recent?
I found https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/latest-update-on-whitehaven-tunnel-repairs# which I don't think we have linked, although it dates from 18 Sept.
Anybody know or heard anything more recent?
swt_passenger
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Although it was not linked directly at the time, it’s clearly the source text for the BBC report quoted in post #141.
I don’t remember seeing any further news either though.
StoneRoad
Member
No, not really.
AFAIK, the engineers are still developing the how of what they need to do, in light of the underground workings found.
Not sure if the "siltbuster" is still filtering the water drained out of the tunnel.
I may be over there next week, if I do make the trip, I'll ask some questions ...
Yorkshire09876
Member
Bentham, Hellifield (reverse) then up the S&C?
agreed, but it was nice to see the video though.
Achievable with route conductors yes, but obviously at vast cost each time.
Yorkshire09876
Member
They are all Northern routes. Do Northern have drivers who sign 156s and the routes? If they do then no route conductor will be needed on that section. In any case, it could all be done in-house so unclear what the 'vast cost' would be.
No.
So every few days moving a unit from Barrow to Newcastle via Appleby and another one back? Yes that would be a nightmare compared to just maintaining them at Newton Heath.
Yorkshire09876
Member
Nobody said anything about moving them every few days. Obviously it would be sensible to do the minor exams closer to where they are used.
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