AWC Derailment Pendolino recovery discussion

[DaveyJones]

Irrelevant to post really, but Overhaul of 390 is in Manchester

The external repaint and internal refresh were done at Widnes

The Overhaul is done at Longsight, the Bogies are done at Crewe Works

 

[Humftamuft]

The external repaint and internal refresh were done at Widnes

The Overhaul is done at Longsight, the Bogies are done at Crewe Works

Spot on. Bogies historically at Manchester, but now Crewe Works.

Hopefully repairs can be made in Polmadie

 

[gingertom]

Is there the possibility that the damaged vehicle has structural damage that can't be repaired? If that's the case, what happens to the rest of the set? Some more 9 car sets become 11?

 

[Peter0124]

Is there the possibility that the damaged vehicle has structural damage that can't be repaired? If that's the case, what happens to the rest of the set? Some more 9 car sets become 11?

If only 390033 front coach was usable. But I do think they can repair 117 anyway.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

Is there the possibility that the damaged vehicle has structural damage that can't be repaired? If that's the case, what happens to the rest of the set? Some more 9 car sets become 11?

Given that they've moved it by rail, it's unlikely that it has major damage.

 

[MadMac]

All of which require the damaged cab to either be capable of being driven from or coupled to!



That is definitely a feasible route.

Could it be turned (if necessary) at Rutherglen?

 

[Falcon1200]

Could it be turned (if necessary) at Rutherglen?

There is indeed a triangle there, but any such move would still require either the damaged cab to be driven from, or able to have a loco attached, or a propelling move.

 

[Annetts key]

I'm not sure why there is such a fuss being made about propelling moves at triangles or similar layouts between or near junctions for short distances.

As long as the appropriate arrangements are made in advance between the TOC and Network Rail, such a move can be made possible.

Before top and tail operations became common, shunting moves that involved a main line loco propelling wagons on the main line for short distances were permitted in specified locations. It was the only way for certain sidings to be accessed. And indeed it is still permitted in certain specified locations.

The main thing is that any propelling move is risk assessed and properly controlled.

 

[MadMac]

There is indeed a triangle there, but any such move would still require either the damaged cab to be driven from, or able to have a loco attached, or a propelling move.

Right. My thinking was that it’s not that far to go.

 

[Falcon1200]

And indeed it is still permitted in certain specified locations.

Indeed it is, and propelling moves take place in Scotland every night, with passengers on board. However those regular operations are very different from propelling an 11-car Pendolino at locations where it is never done, with staff who do not normally carry out such moves, and it is therefore fraught with difficulty, and potential danger.

 

[Russel]

Forgive my ignorance, but what makes splitting 390s so difficult to do?

 

[Yorkshire09876]

Forgive my ignorance, but what makes splitting 390s so difficult to do?

Bar couplers, lots of cabling (both beside the gangway and beneath it). Traction equipment is spread throughout the train (which often wasn't the case with older, shorter EMUs) and includes motors in the driving cars, so the cabling will include the power wiring for those.

 

[jamieP]

Indeed it is, and propelling moves take place in Scotland every night, with passengers on board. However those regular operations are very different from propelling an 11-car Pendolino at locations where it is never done, with staff who do not normally carry out such moves, and it is therefore fraught with difficulty, and potential danger.

Where?

 

[Falcon1200]

Where?

If you are asking where propelling moves with passengers on board take place in Scotland; At Edinburgh and Carstairs, when the Caledonian Sleeper portions are combined.

 

[43096]

I'm not sure why there is such a fuss being made about propelling moves at triangles or similar layouts between or near junctions for short distances.

As long as the appropriate arrangements are made in advance between the TOC and Network Rail, such a move can be made possible.

Before top and tail operations became common, shunting moves that involved a main line loco propelling wagons on the main line for short distances were permitted in specified locations. It was the only way for certain sidings to be accessed. And indeed it is still permitted in certain specified locations.

The main thing is that any propelling move is risk assessed and properly controlled.

I’m not sure why there is a fuss being made about propelling moves in thus context at all. If the set needs to be moved elsewhere for repair, isn’t it entirely possible that Polmadie will repair the coupler and a suitable loco (or loco+coupling translator) used to move it?

 

[zwk500]

I'm not sure why there is such a fuss being made about propelling moves at triangles or similar layouts between or near junctions for short distances.

As long as the appropriate arrangements are made in advance between the TOC and Network Rail, such a move can be made possible.

Before top and tail operations became common, shunting moves that involved a main line loco propelling wagons on the main line for short distances were permitted in specified locations. It was the only way for certain sidings to be accessed. And indeed it is still permitted in certain specified locations.

The main thing is that any propelling move is risk assessed and properly controlled.

Any train can be propelled past 1 main aspect signal only, unless specifically prohibited. Propelling past more than one main aspect signal requires special authority, either from an Special Working Instruction in the sectional appendix or a temporary instruction.

The Rulebook rule means you need to find a triangle where the signalling setup is such that the propelling move only passes 1 main aspect signal, usually by starting the propelling move past a shunt signal, then propelling past the main aspect protecting the '2nd' junction. In older signalling installations this is quite a usual setup. In newer signalling installations there is quite often a main aspect signal protecting the wrong-direction move towards the first junction. This means that a lot of triangles now require passing 2 main aspect signals to turn. For MUs, light locos, push/pull or top/tail formations this is not an issue, but obviously for a propelling move it is.

 

[Humftamuft]

Forgive my ignorance, but what makes splitting 390s so difficult to do?

Not difficult, but time consuming.

Inter car hoses, Traction cables, 3ph cables and ETS cables all cars, additional 25kv jumper between transformer cars.
3 sets of data cables, earths and fibre optics within gangway.
Muff coupling removal from inter car couplers.
Good to split