Ticket office staff insisting on behaving like a website/app

[redreni]

I drove to Greenhithe station last Sunday, parked in the '20 minutes only' bay and popped into the ticket office to buy a Super off-peak return for a journey down to the south coast, leaving on Tuesday and returning on the Wednesday and Thursday.

I specified the ticket I wanted and explained that I was aware of, and would comply with, the time restrictions.

"What time are you leaving on Tuesday?"

"I don't know"

"Well, I can't sell it to you, then. I have to check the times to make sure the ticket is valid for your travel times"

So I humoured him and made up an itinerary that would be valid, but his journey planner kept freezing and he ended up keeping me there about 15 minutes. At various points I queried with him whether it was really necessary to generate an itinerary for a flexible ticket, at which he became quite upset and denied that super off-peak tickets are flexible. He also said it's essential to have an itinerary to travel on SWR. Towards the end of the process I was on the point of having to walk away without the ticket I had gone in for, to avoid a parking fine.

We got there in the end, but I was just interested in the perspective of those forum members who have knowledge of ticket office practices, procedures and training?

I had always thought one of the advantages of ticket offices is you can either say where you're going and when and let them work out what ticket you need, or you can specify what ticket you want and they will sell it to you, drawing to your attention any restrictions applicable to that ticket and checking you're okay with those before they take payment?

 

[yorkie]

I wonder if they've been instructed to use journey planning mode.

However, the claim that SWR requires an itinerary is entirely bogus, but not particularly surprising.

The last time I got a Super Off Peak Return for travel on SWR, I was issued one for a journey which actually required an Off Peak Return. I tried asking for an Off Peak Return, but the ticket clerk insisted that I say when I was travelling, and incorrectly concluded that the Super Off Peak was valid. I wasn't asked to pay the excess, so I am not complaining, but it is indicative of the lack of knowledge at many ticket offices.

The rail industry in general (perhaps not all TOCs) is moving in the direction of requiring journey planning, at least for the outward portion, and this means that some ticket offices will insist on asking for the time of travel before they will sell a ticket, rather than just selling the ticket you ask for on a no-quibble basis.

If you don't want the hassle of specifying a return itinerary, then your best bet is the "open return" option on the forum ticketing site; unlike ticket office staff who don't want your custom, we do value your custom as the commission helps with the upkeep of the forum

We also listen to feedback wherever practicable, e.g. someone mentioned wanting a Baldock split; it was implemented within hours.

 

[redreni]

I had some rail travel vouchers to spend.

You can get the ticket in question from the forum's site, but it is routed "London not Underground" and you have to force changes at Waterloo East and sometimes also Waterloo before it's found. Without that, you get more expensive options that use London Underground.

I had wondered if this could be related to the move in the direction of pushing everyone into using journey planners. The NRCoT changes seem to make journey planners the sole arbiter of which routes are valid, and I wouldn't be surprised if they come back later with amendments aimed at making journey planners the sole arbiter of time restrictions as well, which would be another nail in the coffin of the walk-up railway.

 

[DelW]

At my local station (SWR), one of the three regular clerks insists on asking me for departure and return times, even when I've asked for a flexible ticket valid via both alternative routes (and been clear about exactly which ticket I want). He has even made and printed unwanted reservations based on just one of the options and times, which I ignored. Strangely the other two regulars just sell me the ticket I've asked for without the inquisition.

 

[AlterEgo]

or you can specify what ticket you want and they will sell it to you, drawing to your attention any restrictions applicable to that ticket and checking you're okay with those before they take payment?

Under impartial retailing rules if you specifically ask for a ticket by name it should be sold without quibble, with restrictions advised. There is no need to generate an itinerary. It does sound like SWR staff are being instructed to use journey planning mode and generate an itinerary with everything, which can be freely discarded by the cognisant passenger, wasting everyone's time.

 

[RJ]

Some people in the job really relish making it difficult for all concerned. I've been doing that job for a while, I just sell people what they ask for without any quibble, unless it's obvious they're unsure of what they're buying. Sometimes less is more when it comes to being helpful.

 

[Jan Mayen]

I drove to Greenhithe station last Sunday, parked in the '20 minutes only' bay and popped into the ticket office to buy a Super off-peak return for a journey down to the south coast, leaving on Tuesday and returning on the Wednesday and Thursday.

I specified the ticket I wanted and explained that I was aware of, and would comply with, the time restrictions.

"What time are you leaving on Tuesday?"

"I don't know"

"Well, I can't sell it to you, then. I have to check the times to make sure the ticket is valid for your travel times"

So I humoured him and made up an itinerary that would be valid, but his journey planner kept freezing and he ended up keeping me there about 15 minutes. At various points I queried with him whether it was really necessary to generate an itinerary for a flexible ticket, at which he became quite upset and denied that super off-peak tickets are flexible. He also said it's essential to have an itinerary to travel on SWR. Towards the end of the process I was on the point of having to walk away without the ticket I had gone in for, to avoid a parking fine.

We got there in the end, but I was just interested in the perspective of those forum members who have knowledge of ticket office practices, procedures and training?

I had always thought one of the advantages of ticket offices is you can either say where you're going and when and let them work out what ticket you need, or you can specify what ticket you want and they will sell it to you, drawing to your attention any restrictions applicable to that ticket and checking you're okay with those before they take payment?

I wonder how they would have coped with my request for an All Line Rover

 

[jfollows]

I wonder how they would have coped with my request for an All Line Rover

My local ticket office, I’m glad to say, is always happy to sell me the tickets I ask for, including split tickets. I’m clear about exactly what I want and they’re happy not to have the hassle.
I once bought an all line rover and the man in the ticket office (one of the regulars) had never heard of one. I had taken the precaution of taking a BRFares printout with me which helped, but it was no problem to get the ticket issued. Many years ago Manchester Oxford Road was simply incapable of selling an all line rover and Manchester Piccadilly printed on the wrong blank ticket stock (which unfortunately I didn’t notice at the time).
If a ticket office refused to sell me a ticket I specifically asked for I’d be very likely to make a formal complaint in writing.

 

[TUC]

I do have to ask, although some ticket office staff are great, how did some get into the job and be so limited in very basic understanding?

 

[RJ]

I do have to ask, although some ticket office staff are great, how did some get into the job and be so limited in very basic understanding?

The grade is used as a dumping ground for people who are unable to continue in whatever role they were recruited for, without any consideration as to whether they are suited to it.

Recruiters in some places also don't test for certain competencies that are needed to do the job without constantly clashing with customers.

There's a bit of a "how hard can it be" approach to the role, combined with providing tools like the journey planners which in theory make it easy for anybody to be able to help customers, but in practice it's a tool, rather than a substitute for the ability to look things up from a variety of sources.

 

[redreni]

I wonder how they would have coped with my request for an All Line Rover

"Right, day 1, journey 1, where from and to and what time are you leaving?"

On his slow and unstable TIS, the chap at Greenhithe would still be there now if you'd asked him last Sunday.

Though funnily enough I've a sneaky feeling he would become a bit more pragmatic nearer to closing time.

 

[WestAnglian]

I wonder how they would have coped with my request for an All Line Rover

About two years ago I asked for a 7-day All Lines Rover and was told, after a lot of faffing around, that there was no such ticket. Only 14-day versions existed. And this wasn't a new hire, but somebody who'd been at the station for years. Luckily a senior colleague stepped in and, without humiliating him, showed him what to do.

 

[Wallsendmag]

"Right, day 1, journey 1, where from and to and what time are you leaving?"

On his slow and unstable TIS, the chap at Greenhithe would still be there now if you'd asked him last Sunday.

Though funnily enough I've a sneaky feeling he would become a bit more pragmatic nearer to closing time.

Thats what you get when the supplier decides to leave the market

 

[Haywain]

I wonder how they would have coped with my request for an All Line Rover

The lady who served me this morning would have been completely lost, but now knows about the Rangers/Rovers menu (and thanked me for explaining how to sell a rover).

 

[fandroid]

Unless they've recently changed them without my noticing, SWR TVMs are incapable of giving the customer an itinerary!

 

[Wallsendmag]

Unless they've recently changed them without my noticing, SWR TVMs are incapable of giving the customer an itinerary!

The supplier has an update that does indeed do this but I think it's a way off of being rolled out currently but isn't Greenhithe SE ?

 

[redreni]

The supplier has an update that does indeed do this but I think it's a way off of being rolled out currently but isn't Greenhithe SE ?

Yes.

The TVM would have been no good to me in this instance unless it's been upgraded to accept rail travel vouchers. I therefore didn't check to see if it would have sold me the ticket I wanted.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Yes.

The TVM would have been no good to me in this instance unless it's been upgraded to accept rail travel vouchers. I therefore didn't check to see if it would have sold me the ticket I wanted.

No TVMs accept RTVs.

 

[TUC]

The grade is used as a dumping ground for people who are unable to continue in whatever role they were recruited for, without any consideration as to whether they are suited to it.

Surely it should be regarded as a relatively complex role, both in terms of the knowledge required and the customer care skills, rather than a dumping ground?

 

[MrJeeves]

Surely it should be regarded as a relatively complex role, both in terms of the knowledge required and the customer care skills, rather than a dumping ground?

Maybe you should become an industry consultant to spread that view!

 

[Mainline421]

This is super strange, I was using SWR ticket offices regularly until last year and never had them try to do an itinerary without asking, whether it was to London or Scotland, even Sailrail. If they really took 15 minutes to sell off-peak ticket after you communicated you didn't need to plan a journey and understood the restriction code then a complaint is in order

 

[redreni]

This is super strange, I was using SWR ticket offices regularly until last year and never had them try to do an itinerary without asking, whether it was to London or Scotland, even Sailrail. If they really took 15 minutes to sell off-peak ticket after you communicated you didn't need to plan a journey and understood the restriction code then a complaint is in order

This was SouthEastern.

The chap decided the journey involved SWR (which it can but doesn't have to) and that SWR require an itinerary (which is just wrong as @yorkie mentioned).

 

[Magdalen Road]

I had to explain (with the aid of the National Rail site’s relevant page on my phone) about the £10 rail card with an Annual Gold Card at Norwich ticket office last week. The member of staff had no idea such a thing existed, thought we were talking about travelling that day with the gold card (in addition to buying a Two Together card). So I searched for the info and showed her the page. She then took my phone to show a supervisor, out back somewhere. Both returned, supervisor showed her where to enter the discount code and all sorted. Supervisor’s comment, this is quite rare. Does the training not include this sort of thing?

 

[urbophile]

Conversely, a website or TVM will sell you a railcard-discounted ticket without having to see the actual railcard. The system clearly assumes that passengers know the rules and will show their railcard when travelling. So why can't they assume that passengers are capable of checking the availability of a ticket before travelling?

 

[CyrusWuff]

I had to explain (with the aid of the National Rail site’s relevant page on my phone) about the £10 rail card with an Annual Gold Card at Norwich ticket office last week. The member of staff had no idea such a thing existed, thought we were talking about travelling that day with the gold card (in addition to buying a Two Together card). So I searched for the info and showed her the page. She then took my phone to show a supervisor, out back somewhere. Both returned, supervisor showed her where to enter the discount code and all sorted. Supervisor’s comment, this is quite rare. Does the training not include this sort of thing?

Given Norwich is well outside the former Network SouthEast area (the boundary station on the Great Eastern Main Line being Manningtree), it's not entirely surprising that staff are unfamiliar with the offer as I suspect the vast majority of discounted Railcard purchases will be made closer to London.

That said, Norwich has been in the expanded Gold Card area since 2015, but I don't recall seeing any Staff Briefs since the one that was sent out when the changes to the Gold Card first came in.

 

[Magdalen Road]

Given Norwich is well outside the former Network SouthEast area (the boundary station on the Great Eastern Main Line being Manningtree), it's not entirely surprising that staff are unfamiliar with the offer as I suspect the vast majority of discounted Railcard purchases will be made closer to London.

That said, Norwich has been in the expanded Gold Card area since 2015, but I don't recall seeing any Staff Briefs since the one that was sent out when the changes to the Gold Card first came in.

Well, it got sorted, albeit slowly with no quibbling after the initial confusion. The supervisor knew so I guess it hadn’t come up for this member of staff before.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Well, it got sorted, albeit slowly with no quibbling after the initial confusion. The supervisor knew so I guess it hadn’t come up for this member of staff before.

Just in case it helps someone else in future, the relevant descriptions all include "AGC." Product codes are:

• YNH: 16-25 Railcard AGC
• FAN: Family & Friends Railcard AGC
• NCP: Network Railcard AGC
• SRO: Senior Railcard AGC
• 2TS: Two Together Railcard AGC

Staff should make a note in the Season Ticket database and endorse the back of the Gold Card when issuing a discounted Railcard as you're only allowed to buy one discounted Railcard during the validity of the Season Ticket.

 

[WAB]

The grade is used as a dumping ground for people who are unable to continue in whatever role they were recruited for, without any consideration as to whether they are suited to it.

Yes, this is unfortunately true. There just aren't enough sedentary roles for people who don't have customer service, clerical or management skills, so this shoehorning often happens.

Does the training not include this sort of thing?

At most TOCs, there is far less training than there used to be and very little supervision/refresher training for the more niche subjects.

 

[island]

Just in case it helps someone else in future, the relevant descriptions all include "AGC." Product codes are:

• YNH: 16-25 Railcard AGC
• FAN: Family & Friends Railcard AGC
• NCP: Network Railcard AGC
• SRO: Senior Railcard AGC
• 2TS: Two Together Railcard AGC

In each case formed by incrementing the last letter of the normal code by one, if I'm not mistaken (YNG, FAM, etc.)

Staff should make a note in the Season Ticket database and endorse the back of the Gold Card when issuing a discounted Railcard as you're only allowed to buy one discounted Railcard during the validity of the Season Ticket.

Which of course cannot be done with the new crop of digital Gold Record Cards

 

[Hadders]

At most TOCs, there is far less training than there used to be and very little supervision/refresher training for the more niche subjects.

I doubt there's sufficient management and training staff with the knowledge to do the training at most TOCs.