Grand Central Coach F roped off seats

[Bristol LHS]

Grand Central continue to ‘rope off’ two bays of seats (e.g. 8 seats across two tables) at the end of coach F to prevent passenger use. This is at least on Sunderland trains, I don’t use the Bradford service. It’s reminiscent of what lots of operators did during Covid to distance drivers from passengers. Except Grand Central are still doing it 5 years on, even when trains are fully reserved/standing. Ive seen them used by GC staff on occasion, but this is by no means consistent.

I’m amazed an open access operator accepts losing 8 seats worth of fares on every train. Does anyone know the reason behind this?

 

[Yorkshire09876]

Why? Surely it's not continuing Covid paranoia after all this time?

 

[styles]

Luggage overflow?

I don't actually know though tbh. Might be one to ask them directly about

 

[ainsworth74]

It's used for crew rest during the journey I believe. Personally I think it's beyond time that they put up a bit of a privacy curtain for the benefit of staff using it and to make it even more obvious that it's a staff only area but maybe that's just me.

 

[1D53]

They are used as traincrew rest. There are diagrams where crew 'pass' to London and work a train back shortly afterwards and vv. and providing some guaranteed segregated seating negates the requirement for a PNB in London.

 

[Bristol LHS]

Thanks all for replies, seems an odd solution but good to understand the purpose. Thanks again.

 

[azOOOOOma]

Crew can’t sit in the active cab nor the crumple zone thus it’s all there is.

 

[Judith hambly]

Shouldnt be pnb on trains in this day and age. Should be in a mess room. Typical of companys like this

 

[Haywain]

Shouldnt be pnb on trains in this day and age. Should be in a mess room. Typical of companys like this

That’s a matter for staff and their unions to discuss.

 

[800001]

What did they use to do for the many years before they started 'roping' off these seats?

 

[Driver068]

As far as I am aware it’s always been the case to having seats segregated off for crew PNBs.

Also to reiterate, the 8 seats in coach F are indeed for crew to take their breaks. Given the short turn around the crew currently have it’s unavoidable to have their breaks on trains.

It’s been raised many times and I know for ASLEF they are wanting to have discussions around this but as we know nothing is a quick fix on the railway.

Personally it’s not ideal but it’s very restrictive in having alternative arrangements.

 

[Falcon1200]

Also to reiterate, the 8 seats in coach F are indeed for crew to take their breaks.

Do as many as 8 staff really travel pass/take their PNBs on the same train?

 

[Driver068]

Do as many as 8 staff really travel pass/take their PNBs on the same train?

No, however it may be a Covid thing to why there is 8 seats for distancing purposes. Why it remains I’m unsure.

What’s worth remembering is that if the services are heavily reserved and full and standing, then you tend to have the seats given up to the customers. This obviously has an impact on the service departingKGX due to break requirements but it tends not to be a big issue given them up on return journeys to Sunderland

 

[Falcon1200]

then you tend to have the seats given up to the customers.

That's good, although I have to agree that expecting staff to take their break (rather than just travelling passenger) in the public area of what could be a busy train is not really acceptable.

 

[fishwomp]

Shouldnt be pnb on trains in this day and age. Should be in a mess room. Typical of companys like this

Ever been on a transatlantic plane, or further? Some have a curtain around the rear seats, some have a cupboard leading up stairs to a tiny cupboard with a bed. Not just lunch break but actual sleep..

That's good, although I have to agree that expecting staff to take their break (rather than just travelling passenger) in the public area of what could be a busy train is not really acceptable.

It obviously is acceptable because it is accepted... Nothing in this industry happens without the union support.

 

[Driver068]

It obviously is acceptable because it is accepted... Nothing in this industry happens without the union support.

Union don’t support it, this was all introduced before union recognition many many years ago. But I know what you mean

 

[TUC]

I think I'm right in saying that this wasn't seen on GC prior to Covid, so I'm not sure that the need for a rest area can be a full explanation. What did they do before that?

 

[Taunton]

In steam loco A4 days when they ran nonstop London to Edinburgh, and footplate crews changed over through the corridor tender around York, the front-most carriage compartment was reserved for the opposite crew. Two of them at a time, but a 6-seat compartment.

 

[Haywain]

Nothing in this industry happens without the union support.

There is plenty that happens in the industry without union support.

 

[cool110]

Do as many as 8 staff really travel pass/take their PNBs on the same train?

No, it's just the smallest area that's physically possible to rope off like that

 

[RiverDon]

Sounds absolutely dire. Can Grand Central drivers claim a spoiled PNB if the train is full and standing and they are being hassled by passengers to give up the seats? Or if someone sits in front playing tik tok videos at full volume? If they want breaks on board a train then the company should put up a wall and door or something.

 

[tfw756rider]

What does PNB stand for?

 

[Bill57p9]

What does PNB stand for?

Personal Needs Break

 

[tfw756rider]

Personal Needs Break

Thanks

 

[azOOOOOma]

Can they not install some kind of privacy curtain?

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Are staff who are booked to travel PASS entitled to food/drink or given an allowance?
If so, it’s not a terrible arrangement.

 

[railrambler]

Thanks

Can they not install some kind of privacy curtain?

Just transgressing here, why would you have standing passengers on a OAO operated service? I was under the impression you had to have a seat reservation and “walk on’s” were not allowed?

 

[800001]

Just transgressing here, why would you have standing passengers on a OAO operated service? I was under the impression you had to have a seat reservation and “walk on’s” were not allowed?

You can board a GC service without a ticket and purchase on board.

Lumo and Hull Trains you can buy an open ticket and board the service without a reservation.

 

[yorkie]

I was under the impression you had to have a seat reservation and “walk on’s” were not allowed?

No, That's absolutely not the case.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Nov 2025 ==

Can they not install some kind of privacy curtain?

This would be one for the speculative discussion section.

 

[stadler]

If it is just one staff member needing a break then why not use the rear cab. They could easily sit in the rear cab instead. That also has the added bonus of a door for them so it is even more private.