Mixing advance and off peak

[stephen rp]

Virgin used to allow a split between type - say advance out and off peak back (with the OPS at half the price of OPR). Is that still a thing anywhere?

 

[Gaelan]

Virgin used to allow a split between type - say advance out and off peak back (with the OPS at half the price of OPR). Is that still a thing anywhere?

I seem to recall Greater Anglia had something similar, though I'll defer to someone who knows the area better than me on the details.

LNER's "single-fare pricing" allows this in some cases, as there's no return in the first place. But of course they're trying to do away with the "off-peak" fare as well, so it takes a bit of trickery to get the off-peak price if you're going to London.

 

[yorkie]

Virgin used to allow a split between type - say advance out and off peak back (with the OPS at half the price of OPR).

It was an SVS at half the price of an SVR actually

By all means use ticket codes, but we do ask that the correct codes are used, and the full name should be used the first time you refer to them.

Incorrect or made up codes cannot be used; an OPS/OPR is a Super Off Peak Single / Super Off Peak Return, but the fares in question were Off Peak Single / Off Peak Return.

Is that still a thing anywhere?

I am not quite sure what you are asking; if you are asking if some TOCs price their singles at half the cost of the return, then yes, several do.

LNER is an example of a TOC that abolished many (but not quite all) returns and price singles at a bit more than half the cost of the return fare on those flows.

There aren't many examples of the return being retained, but singles also being half the price of a return.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Virgin used to allow a split between type - say advance out and off peak back (with the OPS at half the price of OPR). Is that still a thing anywhere?

You can obviously still get an Advance Single with Avanti from, say, Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston, and then an Off Peak Single back again, but the latter won't be priced at half the price of the Off Peak Return any more, it'll be more like 70%.

If memory serves, what you're talking about was only ever offered on a Saturday, and the tickets had to be booked together, but they did, I think, also have London Zones 1-6 Day Travelcard validity included. Don't think it's been available for quite some time now.

 

[yorkie]

If memory serves, what you're talking about was only ever offered on a Saturday, and the tickets had to be booked together, but they did, I think, have London Zones 1-6 Day Travelcard validity included. Don't think it's been available for quite some time now.

That was a separate product.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

That was a separate product.

Thanks for clarifying. What was it marketed as?

 

[yorkie]

Thanks for clarifying. What was it marketed as?

Virgin Saturday Day Travelcard

There was also the "Saturday Day Travelcard" ticket, which was essentially an advance ticket from a WCML origin station served by Virgin Trains, bundled together with an Off Peak Day Travelcard for London Zones 1-6, and a same day return trip back from London to the origin station, again with Virgin Trains. Good value!

Virgin Saturday Day Travelcard

Hello I've just bought a £34.60 Travelcard for Liverpool Stns - Zone 1-6 London. It is a "Saturday Day Travelcard" routed Virgin Trns Only. On enquring at the VT desk in Lime St whether it was valid on the likes of FCC/C2C/SWT I was told it is only valid on Virgin Trains and London...

www.railforums.co.uk

Saturday Off Peak Travelcard - Avanti

Hi, Many years ago (maybe 2012) I used a great ticket from Chester and maybe Crewe called the Saturday Off Peak Travelcard on Virgin Trains. Basically, you booked an advance ticket on a Saturday morning and could get any train back on the Saturday night, plus you got a travelcard. Great for a...

www.railforums.co.uk

Virgin Trains West Coast (VTWC) hikes Saturday Day Travelcards by more than 50%

Last month, the VTWC Saturday Day Travelcard, from Liverpool, Runcorn, Chester, Wigan, Warrington, Manchester and Stockport, cost £41.20. This month, it costs £65. That's for a day return ticket (Saturdays only) restricted to VTWC services, which must be booked in advance, is tied to the booked...

www.railforums.co.uk

Virgin Saturday day out travelcard

I believe above available from Mamchester imcludimg all zones Travelcard..no mention on website though..costs about £35. Any info please ?

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Gaelan]

I seem to recall Greater Anglia had something similar, though I'll defer to someone who knows the area better than me on the details.

Aha, I was thinking of the Advance Flex Return: https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/tickets-fares/business-travel/advance-flex-return

It’s an advance on the outbound leg and an anytime (not off-peak) on the inbound leg, priced at “up to” 20% cheaper than the Anytime Return. No break of journey and no railcards - so any railcard holder is better off buying an Anytime (or, if the times suit, Off-Peak) Return. I suspect even non-railcard holders would be better off with an Off-Peak Return unless they intended to travel during restricted times in at least one direction.

Quite a niche product!

 

[John R]

GWR long distance off peak and super off peak singles are priced at around 57% of the corresponding return price, and have been for many years. I regard that as a fair rate, and makes mixing anytime and off peak tickets much more realistically priced.

 

[MrToad]

SWR offer a "Semi Flex" ticket where you have to travel out on a stated train, but can come back on any off-peak service.

This is useful for the football where I know what time I will be travelling there but not coming back - I may hang around afterwards for a few drinks. It also lets me break the journey. However there is not a huge financial difference whether I just get a semi flex or off peak return. At least for Saturdays anyway.

 

[Adam Williams]

Aha, I was thinking of the Advance Flex Return: https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/tickets-fares/business-travel/advance-flex-return

It’s an advance on the outbound leg and an anytime (not off-peak) on the inbound leg, priced at “up to” 20% cheaper than the Anytime Return. No break of journey and no railcards - so any railcard holder is better off buying an Anytime (or, if the times suit, Off-Peak) Return. I suspect even non-railcard holders would be better off with an Off-Peak Return unless they intended to travel during restricted times in at least one direction.

Quite a niche product!

Yes, the data doesn't support these products properly so it's good fun to make the E-Tickets look sensible.

 

[jfollows]

You can obviously still get an Advance Single with Avanti from, say, Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston, and then an Off Peak Single back again, but the latter won't be priced at half the price of the Off Peak Return any more, it'll be more like 70%.

If memory serves, what you're talking about was only ever offered on a Saturday, and the tickets had to be booked together, but they did, I think, also have London Zones 1-6 Day Travelcard validity included. Don't think it's been available for quite some time now.

It used to be possible to buy an advance ticket to London, for example on a Friday, coupled with a SVS return on a Sunday which was not restricted to a specific train although it usually came with a seat reservation.
There was also the day travelcard which clearly was only valid on one day (Saturday), required a specific train booking to London but was valid on any train back.
I used them both.
Neither are available today, yes.

To be honest, I don’t care about the Travelcard now that contactless exists, it was the hassle of buying a ticket on arrival at Euston that was the big pain.

But the absence of the half price SVS is annoying and I have not made trips I otherwise might have made because of it.

 

[plugwash]

It was an SVS at half the price of an SVR actually

I'm pretty sure that for virgin west-coast services at least, the ticket had a code of SVH and was originally known as a "saver half return" before the great ticket renaming saw it renamed to "off-peak single", meaning that on some routes there were two different off-peak singles, the regular SVS which cost almost as much as a return, and the SVH which cost half as much as a return, but could only be

 

[Whisky Papa]

I'm pretty sure that for virgin west-coast services at least, the ticket had a code of SVH and was originally known as a "saver half return" before the great ticket renaming saw it renamed to "off-peak single", meaning that on some routes there were two different off-peak singles, the regular SVS which cost almost as much as a return, and the SVH which cost half as much as a return, but could only be

...bought online, were you going to say?

I can't recall the ticket code now, but yes, I'd expect it to have been different from the walk-up SVS.

I recall spending some time at a suburban station in the Manchester area (c2010) trying to convince an unfortunate lady that I was unable to make the change she required to such a ticket, because they simply were not in Northern's FasTis machine's database of tickets - very frustrating.

 

[yorkie]

I'm pretty sure that for virgin west-coast services at least, the ticket had a code of SVH and was originally known as a "saver half return" before the great ticket renaming saw it renamed to "off-peak single", meaning that on some routes there were two different off-peak singles, the regular SVS which cost almost as much as a return, and the SVH which cost half as much as a return, but could only be

Yes that's right. The SVH was a single that could not be purchased singly.

 

[plugwash]

...bought online, were you going to say?

Could only be bought as part of a return journey (i.e. with an advance or another SVH for the other direction).

 

[Hadders]

Virgin used to offer the Saver Half Return which could only be purchased online and it had to be purchased with another single ticket in the other direction. It was a popular ticket priced at half the price of the off peak return. I ofthen used to use it when going to meetings in Manchester - I'd buy an Advance Single for the outwatd journey and a SVH for the return to give me flexibility.

When Avanti took over the franchise they realised they could make more money if they simplified the fares and abolished the SVH. The Off Peak Single, which was priced at £1 less than the Off Peak Return was reduced in price to be 60% of the Off Peak Return.

So anyone making a genuinely single journey did save some money, but anyone making a return journey with a fixed train one way with a flexible return had to pay more.

 

[Watershed]

Virgin used to offer the Saver Half Return which could only be purchased online and it had to be purchased with another single ticket in the other direction. It was a popular ticket priced at half the price of the off peak return. I ofthen used to use it when going to meetings in Manchester - I'd buy an Advance Single for the outwatd journey and a SVH for the return to give me flexibility.

When Avanti took over the franchise they realised they could make more money if they simplified the fares and abolished the SVH. The Off Peak Single, which was priced at £1 less than the Off Peak Return was reduced in price to be 60% of the Off Peak Return.

So anyone making a genuinely single journey did save some money, but anyone making a return journey with a fixed train one way with a flexible return had to pay more.

It was only reduced to 70% of the return. 60% might have been just about reasonable but 70% is really not offering a huge saving. I think they knew exactly what they were doing with that change.

 

[Hadders]

It was only reduced to 70% of the return. 60% might have been just about reasonable but 70% is really not offering a huge saving. I think they knew exactly what they were doing with that change.

On reflection, I think it was 70% rather than 60%. ISTR that these changes happened at the first fares round after Avanti took over so would probably have been part of their thinking when they bid for the franchise.

Several little 'perks' were also removed when Avanti took over, like the railcard easement and allowing Anytime ticket holders to use 1st class at weekends free of charge. No doubt all to add a bit of incremental revenue.

 

[CyrusWuff]

On reflection, I think it was 70% rather than 60%. ISTR that these changes happened at the first fares round after Avanti took over so would probably have been part of their thinking when they bid for the franchise.

A side effect of that being that some Avanti-priced Singles between Welsh stations and London undercut Singles priced by Chiltern, which are still only 10p or £1 cheaper than the equivalent Return.

For example: London - Shrewsbury via Birmingham is £55.20 for an Off-Peak Single (£78.90 Return), but the Off-Peak Single routed via High Wycombe is £73.30 (£74.30 Return.)

 

[Starmill]

On reflection, I think it was 70% rather than 60%. ISTR that these changes happened at the first fares round after Avanti took over so would probably have been part of their thinking when they bid for the franchise.

Several little 'perks' were also removed when Avanti took over, like the railcard easement and allowing Anytime ticket holders to use 1st class at weekends free of charge. No doubt all to add a bit of incremental revenue.

I think the railcard easement was withdrawn quite a bit earlier than 2019.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Nov 2025 ==

For example: London - Shrewsbury via Birmingham is £55.20 for an Off-Peak Single (£78.90 Return), but the Off-Peak Single routed via High Wycombe is £73.30 (£74.30 Return.)

Don't look at the prices of Shrewsbury - High Wycombe eh!

 

[stephen rp]

Thanks for the recollections.

It takes me back to the late 60s when LMR suburban off peak return tickets were often priced at the same as a single - except Manchester to Blackburn OP which was 6/9, while the single was a full 7 shillings. Clerks had to make a judgement whether to offer a return instead of a single and perhaps face an argument from someone who insisted they weren't coming back that day.