Set down only at Rugby

[Joey Beauchamp]

Stoke-on-Trent is somewhere I quite often travel to for the football and I love the --:47 non-stop Avanti service from Rugby as it gets me there in super-quick time.

However, I was just planning my journey for an evening kick-off and the train didn't appear on Google Maps or the National Rail journey planner. On checking Realtime Trains I was surprised to see the (would be) 17:47 and 18:47 showing as Service stops to drop passengers off only.

Does anyone know why this is? The only reasons I can think of are either the train is very busy or it needs to get moving again sharpish to not lose it's path.

I was thinking about attempting to board but the dispatch staff at Rugby are pretty on the ball so unless the --:42 Crewe service is late, I doubt I'll risk it.

The usual reason given on here for not boarding at a set down only stop is that your ticket wouldn't be valid and you would be charged full price from the preceding station. If I was travelling on a West Midlands Day Ranger, would that be valid? I'm guessing not, but also guessing that you would only be charged a ticket from MK to Rugby because the "have to stop" split ticketing rule doesn't apply to Rovers & Rangers. I'd be very interested in the official rules on this.

 

[Watershed]

The only reason I can think of why the trains have been marked as "set down only" (northbound) and "pick up only" (southbound) is to prevent people from being offered split tickets at Rugby by Trainline and other split ticketing retailers.

Such splits would often save huge amounts of money against the usurious Anytime fares Avanti would like to charge Manchester passengers (and against which Advance tickets are priced). There is no legitimate reason for having those restrictions - the stops are long enough, and it would clearly be useful to have direct Rugby-Manchester services. Indeed ISTR that restoring this kind of intermediate connectiviy was one of the justifications for the longer end-to-end journey times which adding those stops meant.

In practice they are advertised as normal stops onboard and at stations, as far as I know. There is nothing in the NRCoT which explicitly states you can't board at a set down stop or vice versa - it is only mentioned in the context of split ticketing, where you can't split at a set down/pick up station if you're using a combination of singles/returns. That rule doesn't apply when using a ranger or rover.

 

[AlterEgo]

The only reason I can think of why the trains have been marked as "set down only" (northbound) and "pick up only" (southbound) is to prevent people from being offered split tickets at Rugby by Trainline and other split ticketing retailers.

Such splits would often save huge amounts of money against the usurious Anytime fares Avanti would like to charge Manchester passengers (and against which Advance tickets are priced). There is no legitimate reason for having those restrictions - the stops are long enough, and it would clearly be useful to have direct Rugby-Manchester services. Indeed ISTR that restoring this kind of intermediate connectiviy was one of the justifications for the longer end-to-end journey times which adding those stops meant.

In practice they are advertised as normal stops onboard and at stations, as far as I know. There is nothing in the NRCoT which explicitly states you can't board at a set down stop or vice versa - it is only mentioned in the context of split ticketing, where you can't split at a set down/pick up station if you're using a combination of singles/returns. That rule doesn't apply when using a ranger or rover.

As a former Rugby resident I took note of these restrictions being put in place and share your conclusion - it is only about stopping some very good split ticketing deals on the Manchester trains. Rugby to Manchester is fairly reasonably priced.

 

[bleeder4]

In practice they are advertised as normal stops onboard and at stations, as far as I know. There is nothing in the NRCoT which explicitly states you can't board at a set down stop or vice versa - it is only mentioned in the context of split ticketing, where you can't split at a set down/pick up station if you're using a combination of singles/returns. That rule doesn't apply when using a ranger or rover.

I have been on stations where I have heard automated announcements "The next train at platform x stops here only to set down passengers. Please do not board this service". The display screen on platform also says DO NOT BOARD. So I am not sure they are advertised normally at stations.

 

[Hophead]

I've just checked a journey for today and both trains are available to book. On Tuesday 25th, however, they are not (I presume that this is the date you are hoping to travel?). As the match is against Charlton, I assume that Avanti are expecting trains from London to be very busy and have decided to impose restrictions.

Noting the subsequent comment, I've also checked next Wednesday and that is, indeed, not available for this journey.

 

[Joey Beauchamp]

The only reason I can think of why the trains have been marked as "set down only" (northbound) and "pick up only" (southbound) is to prevent people from being offered split tickets at Rugby by Trainline and other split ticketing retailers.

Such splits would often save huge amounts of money against the usurious Anytime fares Avanti would like to charge Manchester passengers (and against which Advance tickets are priced). There is no legitimate reason for having those restrictions - the stops are long enough, and it would clearly be useful to have direct Rugby-Manchester services. Indeed ISTR that restoring this kind of intermediate connectiviy was one of the justifications for the longer end-to-end journey times which adding those stops meant.

In practice they are advertised as normal stops onboard and at stations, as far as I know. There is nothing in the NRCoT which explicitly states you can't board at a set down stop or vice versa - it is only mentioned in the context of split ticketing, where you can't split at a set down/pick up station if you're using a combination of singles/returns. That rule doesn't apply when using a ranger or rover.

It is only those two trains though (17:47 and 18:47), and only Mon-Fri, the rest of the day (and at weekends) the --:47 services are as normal. Which makes me think something else is going on.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2025 ==

I've just checked a journey for today and both trains are available to book. On Tuesday 25th, however, they are not (I presume that this is the date you are hoping to travel?). As the match is against Charlton, I assume that Avanti are expecting trains from London to be very busy and have decided to impose restrictions.

Noting the subsequent comment, I've also checked next Wednesday and that is, indeed, not available for this journey.

I'm thoroughly confused now! Going forward they are booked set down only Mon-Fri every single day (I've spot checked as far ahead as February).

Going backwards, the same.

Today: regular stop!

Could it be that they are marked set down only for split ticketing reasons (as mentioned above), relaxed on the day (so as not to confuse passengers on the platform at Rugby) and then Realtime Trains takes the original data when looking backwards?

 

[Kite159]

It is only those two trains though (17:47 and 18:47), and only Mon-Fri, the rest of the day (and at weekends) the --:47 services are as normal. Which makes me think something else is going on.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2025 ==


I'm thoroughly confused now! Going forward they are booked set down only Mon-Fri every single day (I've spot checked as far ahead as February).

Going backwards, the same.

Today: regular stop!

Could it be that they are marked set down only for split ticketing reasons (as mentioned above), relaxed on the day (so as not to confuse passengers on the platform at Rugby) and then Realtime Trains takes the original data when looking backwards?

It's likely to prevent split tickets being sold/used during the evening peak (ie someone having an anytime ticket to Rugby and an offpeak ticket north of Rugby).

 

[jfollows]

I've just checked a journey for today and both trains are available to book. On Tuesday 25th, however, they are not (I presume that this is the date you are hoping to travel?). As the match is against Charlton, I assume that Avanti are expecting trains from London to be very busy and have decided to impose restrictions.

Noting the subsequent comment, I've also checked next Wednesday and that is, indeed, not available for this journey.

The restrictions there, and at Stafford (on different trains) are FX. Today, and on other Fridays, they are normal calls without restrictions.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Avanti do the same trick at Crewe for the late/last departure from Euston to Liverpool.

It would provide a super connection from Crewe back to Liverpool for midweek football games, but its "set down only", so not valid!

Drives me mad.

 

[Joey Beauchamp]

The restrictions there, and at Stafford (on different trains) are FX. Today, and on other Fridays, they are normal calls without restrictions.

Ah okay, I can see that now.

It's likely to prevent split tickets being sold/used during the evening peak (ie someone having an anytime ticket to Rugby and an offpeak ticket north of Rugby).

Does that mean the two trains might appear on the boards / let people board, as it's actually about passengers already on the train? Or will it just be "system says no" so won't show?

 

[Watershed]

I have been on stations where I have heard automated announcements "The next train at platform x stops here only to set down passengers. Please do not board this service". The display screen on platform also says DO NOT BOARD. So I am not sure they are advertised normally at stations.

In general yes, however at Rugby I have seen those trains advertised normally without any indication of restrictions.

I've just checked a journey for today and both trains are available to book. On Tuesday 25th, however, they are not (I presume that this is the date you are hoping to travel?). As the match is against Charlton, I assume that Avanti are expecting trains from London to be very busy and have decided to impose restrictions.

The above-cited trains are marked as "set down only" during Mon-Thu, but as open calls on Fridays & Saturdays. The split by day of the week is a clear indication that this is about preventing people from saving money vs Anytime fares (which mostly don't apply on Fridays on Avanti).

It is only those two trains though (17:47 and 18:47), and only Mon-Fri, the rest of the day (and at weekends) the --:47 services are as normal. Which makes me think something else is going on.

It's only Mon-Thu - which aligns with when peak fares are charged. The same happens on morning peak services (Mon-Thu) towards London.

Clearly, this isn't about managing demand - the demand is overwhelmingly between Rugby and London, not Rugby and Manchester. That is why they have done the restrictions that way round; it doesn't impact too many people, whilst at the same time preventing people from being offered splits.

It's extremely underhanded in my view, and I suspect you'd 'get away' with using splits in practice if you did use those trains.

 

[AlterEgo]

In general yes, however at Rugby I have seen those trains advertised normally without any indication of restrictions.

As have I.

For what it's worth I have taken one of these trains, once, to Manchester and boarding at Rugby was not a problem. I was not the only one and I was not prevented by staff.

 

[greyman42]

I was thinking about attempting to board but the dispatch staff at Rugby are pretty on the ball so unless the --:42 Crewe service is late, I doubt I'll risk it.

I would not worry about the dispatch staff; just jump on, they are not going to chase after you to drag you off but the ticket inspector might see things differently.

 

[jfollows]

Avanti do the same trick at Crewe for the late/last departure from Euston to Liverpool.

It would provide a super connection from Crewe back to Liverpool for midweek football games, but its "set down only", so not valid!

Drives me mad.

For a different reason, I suggest.
Avoids the need to provide replacement bus or taxi services.

 

[fairlie]

It's extremely underhanded in my view, and I suspect you'd 'get away' with using splits in practice if you did use those trains.

I've been refused boarding at Euston before now when I had a split at Milton Keynes. In that case, I actually genuinely didn't know that it was a restricted stop as it wasn't shown in the app I was using. But I agree entirely that it's underhanded and I can't see any reason for it other than preventing splits.

 

[Fenchurch SP]

It's extremely underhanded in my view, and I suspect you'd 'get away' with using splits in practice if you did use those trains.

Presumably you would be OK if you were already on the train because you wouldn't have boarded at Rugby, and the train would actually have called at the station where the split occurred, even if it was set down only.

 

[Full Standing]

would actually have called at the station where the split occurred, even if it was set down only.

I think there was a discussion somewhere else on the forum on what a "call" in light of a splitting point for a split ticket constitutes. And I seem to recall that it's necessary that the train stops at the station for both pick-up and set-down purposes, But I'm happy to be corrected by the professionals.

 

[jfollows]

I think there was a discussion somewhere else on the forum on what a "call" in light of a splitting point for a split ticket constitutes. And I seem to recall that it's necessary that the train stops at the station for both pick-up and set-down purposes, But I'm happy to be corrected by the professionals.

Split tickets London-Rugby & Rugby-Manchester (or wherever) would not be valid on these FX services which are set down only stops at Rugby.
I’m definitely not professional!

 

[Starmill]

I would strongly advise against an attempt to split tickets in this way. It looks like you're deliberately ignoring the Conditions to save money, which is not good news. If you intend to try getting on a train that's set down only however, not with a split, I don't think there's meaningful risk. Obviously the issue is if you are delayed or stranded overnight or physically refused boarding or whatever may happen you have no means to recover any losses by compensation etc. But as long as you are willing to risk that you're fine. People board set down only trains all the time and nobody cares.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Split tickets London-Rugby & Rugby-Manchester (or wherever) would not be valid on these FX services which are set down only stops at Rugby.

What XS fare could Avanti seek to levy in such circumstances? A £100 00 single from Milton Keynes Central to Stoke-on-Trent?

 

[Starmill]

What XS fare could Avanti seek to levy in such circumstances? A £100 00 single from Milton Keynes Central to Stoke-on-Trent?

I wouldn't put it past them to try and get you prosecuted for an attempt to avoid paying the fare. Hopefully that wouldn't happen but it's specifically written down that splitting in this way isn't permitted.

 

[jfollows]

Boarding a “set down only” service ought not to be an issue. If it arrives and leaves early, so what? However it invalidates a split ticket at the “set down only” station.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Nov 2025 ==

It's only Mon-Thu - which aligns with when peak fares are charged. The same happens on morning peak services (Mon-Thu) towards London.

I’m not aware of this, there’s nothing in the timetable I posted, but am I out of date here?

 

[Watershed]

I’m not aware of this, there’s nothing in the timetable I posted, but am I out of date here?

The 07:15 and 08:15 Piccadilly to Euston services (FSX) are the morning examples:

Realtime Trains | 1R23 0715 Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston | 10/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 1R23 0715 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston on 10/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 1A12 0815 Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston | 10/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 1A12 0815 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston on 10/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The only reason I can think of why the trains have been marked as "set down only" (northbound) and "pick up only" (southbound) is to prevent people from being offered split tickets at Rugby by Trainline and other split ticketing retailers.

Think you've hit the nail on the head, there, particularly in view of the calling pattern for certain trains at Rugby being subtly different on Mondays to Thursdays, compared with Fridays.

 

[jfollows]

The 07:15 and 08:15 Piccadilly to Euston services (FSX) are the morning examples:

Realtime Trains | 1R23 0715 Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston | 10/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 1R23 0715 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston on 10/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 1A12 0815 Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston | 10/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 1A12 0815 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston on 10/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Thank you, and apologies.
And shown in the timetable I posted, so I was being a bit dim not to notice.

 

[DelW]

I was thinking about attempting to board but the dispatch staff at Rugby are pretty on the ball so unless the --:42 Crewe service is late, I doubt I'll risk it.

If you're going to be at the station anyway, you can just look to see what the station / platform screens show. If they show the xx:47 normally, you can hardly be criticised for boarding it, regardless of what tricks Avanti may be playing. On the other hand if it doesn't appear, or has some form of "not for use" messaging, then a guard or RPI might give you a hard time on board.

 

[1D54]

If you're going to be at the station anyway, you can just look to see what the station / platform screens show. If they show the xx:47 normally, you can hardly be criticised for boarding it, regardless of what tricks Avanti may be playing. On the other hand if it doesn't appear, or has some form of "not for use" messaging, then a guard or RPI might give you a hard time on board.

And take a photo of the departure screen to back it up if you intend to use such a service where problems may arise.

 

[Lucy1501]

I would not worry about the dispatch staff; just jump on, they are not going to chase after you to drag you off but the ticket inspector might see things differently.

We evidently have very different experiences! A few months ago I'd got off the far end of platform 1 from Long Buckby, and a pendo for Manchester pulled in quite a bit earlier than what I was going to get, no announcements, notice on the train doors or CIS boards which I would expect (which from my experience at Stockport is what should usually happen).

Me and 2 or 3 others got onboard, and ended up delaying the train 5 minutes as the dispatcher and guard searched the entire train for all of us. The dispatcher took a liking to me personally and ended up screaming at me, accusing me of attempting to defraud the railway and calling me a liar amongst various other insults and abuse! They then spent the next half an hour pointing at me and mentioning me to their colleagues.

Certainly enough to make me wary about getting trains from Rugby ever again, and that's just from an innocent mistake, nevermind some of what has been outlined above.

 

[speedy1]

The dispatcher took a liking to me personally and ended up screaming at me, accusing me of attempting to defraud the railway and calling me a liar amongst various other insults and abuse! They then spent the next half an hour pointing at me and mentioning me to their colleagues.

I'm without words. Can't help but think of those rapidly-multiplying threatening signs about abuse towards staff not being tolerated...

 

[redreni]

We evidently have very different experiences! A few months ago I'd got off the far end of platform 1 from Long Buckby, and a pendo for Manchester pulled in quite a bit earlier than what I was going to get, no announcements, notice on the train doors or CIS boards which I would expect (which from my experience at Stockport is what should usually happen).

Me and 2 or 3 others got onboard, and ended up delaying the train 5 minutes as the dispatcher and guard searched the entire train for all of us. The dispatcher took a liking to me personally and ended up screaming at me, accusing me of attempting to defraud the railway and calling me a liar amongst various other insults and abuse! They then spent the next half an hour pointing at me and mentioning me to their colleagues.

Certainly enough to make me wary about getting trains from Rugby ever again, and that's just from an innocent mistake, nevermind some of what has been outlined above.

This makes no sense.

The upside of doing this from Avanti's perspective is it prevents accredited retailers finding splits at Rugby, meaning some punters may end up paying significantly more than they would if it were an unrestricted call. The downsides are they lose revenue because people decide to fly, drive or take the coach to Manchester instead of paying for a through ticket, and they lose revenue from people wanting to go north from Rugby because they're not allowed to book to travel on that particular train.

But the upsides do not rely on anybody actually observing or enforcing the no boarding restriction at Rugby. It is enough that the restriction exists in the data, so retailers can't sell the split for that train. Indeed, tolerating people boarding at Rugby mitigates one of the downsides without affecting the upside.

I don't suppose the member of staff explained how the alleged fraud he suspected you of trying to perpetrate was supposed to work? It seems to lack both the key elements of a fraud - financial gain for you and financial loss for the railway.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Nov 2025 ==

There is nothing in the NRCoT which explicitly states you can't board at a set down stop or vice versa - it is only mentioned in the context of split ticketing, where you can't split at a set down/pick up station if you're using a combination of singles/returns. That rule doesn't apply when using a ranger or rover.

Yeah, although the information box isn't contractual anyway, so the contractual basis for saying that "Call" means an unrestricted call is simply the way that term is defined in the glossary of terms.

What the information box does show, however, is a particular interpretation of the validity of single and return tickets which says that a ticket to a station is not valid on a train that goes to that station but stops there only to pick up passengers, and a ticket from a station is not valid on a train that stopped there only to set down passengers. I agree it's not authoritative as it's only an information box, but it is offered by way of rationale (or maybe rationalisation) for the rule against splitting single or return tickets at a station where a train has a restricted call. If you accept that reasoning (which you don't have to), it would be hard to say why the same would not apply in the situation of boarding a train when it stops only to set down.