[CH] SBB orders 116 double-decker trains from Siemens

[bahnause]

The 2 billion Swiss francs contract for 116 new double-decker trains for the S-Bahn in Zurich and western Switzerland has been awarded to Siemens Mobility. The trains will also be used for future service expansions. The procurement therefore includes an option for 84 additional vehicles.

SBB put the procurement contract out to public tender in June 2024. SBB awarded the major contract in accordance with the provisions of public procurement law (BöB/VöB). Siemens Mobility submitted the most advantageous bid in accordance with procurement law and scored highest in terms of investment costs, operating costs (energy/maintenance) and sustainability criteria. The 100-metre-long trains of the first generation of the Zurich S-Bahn need to be replaced after 40 years. Ninety-five of the new trains, with a length of 150 metres and over 500 seats, are to be put into regular service in the Zurich area.

Official SBB press release

Die SBB ersetzt die Doppelstockzüge der ersten Generation der Zürcher S-Bahn: Sie hat heute den Auftrag für 116 neue Fahrzeuge an den Hersteller Siemens Mobility vergeben. Siemens Mobility hat das gemäss Beschaffungsrecht vorteilhafteste Angebot gemacht. Die neuen Züge kommen ab den 2030er Jahren in der Zürcher S-Bahn und in der Westschweiz zum Einsatz.

Photos are available for download at the SBB Media Centre. The design is not final yet.

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

And unsurprisingly, Stadler is pissed off:

SBB double-deck trains: Stadler regrets the decision | Stadler

Stadler regrets SBB's decision on double-deck trains and continues to focus on innovative solutions for sustainable mobility.

www.stadlerrail.com

Press release by Stadler stating their unhappiness with the decision and that their offer was only 0.6% more expensive while building it domestic

 

[bahnause]

And unsurprisingly, Stadler is pissed off:

SBB double-deck trains: Stadler regrets the decision | Stadler

Stadler regrets SBB's decision on double-deck trains and continues to focus on innovative solutions for sustainable mobility.

www.stadlerrail.com

Press release by Stadler stating their unhappiness with the decision and that their offer was only 0.6% more expensive while building it domestic

Then they should have submitted a better bid. The legal requirements are very clear when it comes to selecting a supplier...

 

[ABB125]

Are these to replace the class 450 hauled sets then, or does older stock exist on the Zurich S-bahn?

 

[Gordon]

Are these to replace the class 450 hauled sets then, or does older stock exist on the Zurich S-bahn?

No, the 450 sets are the oldest stuff running on the Zurich S Bahn. By my reckoning 116 sets will replace more than just the 450 sets.

Up for the chop are the Domino units so some cascading will probably take place - maybe 514s will move out to replace Dominos in some places

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Nov 2025 ==

And unsurprisingly, Stadler is pissed off:

SBB double-deck trains: Stadler regrets the decision | Stadler

Stadler regrets SBB's decision on double-deck trains and continues to focus on innovative solutions for sustainable mobility.

www.stadlerrail.com

Press release by Stadler stating their unhappiness with the decision and that their offer was only 0.6% more expensive while building it domestic

Ha ha - that's a laugh considering Stadler went from producing a few bus bodies to supplying half the world's trains and trams in recent years! What more do they want!

 

[bahnause]

No, the 450 sets are the oldest stuff running on the Zurich S Bahn. By my reckoning 116 sets will replace more than just the 450 sets.

Up for the chop are the Domino units so some cascading will probably take place - maybe 514s will move out to replace Dominos in some places

There are some HVZ-D to replace as well on the S-Bahn Zürich. 198 Flirt Evo to replace the Domino and older Flort fleet are already ordered. It is pretty much a 1:1 replacement for the 450 with some needed additional capacity.

 

[Snow1964]

And unsurprisingly, Stadler is pissed off:

SBB double-deck trains: Stadler regrets the decision | Stadler

Stadler regrets SBB's decision on double-deck trains and continues to focus on innovative solutions for sustainable mobility.

www.stadlerrail.com

Press release by Stadler stating their unhappiness with the decision and that their offer was only 0.6% more expensive while building it domestic

Not clear to me if Stadler would have actually manufactured them in Switzerland (or like some UK factories, just assembled using parts from elsewhere).

They have just expanded the body production at Szolnok, Hungary where it was recently announced 6000th car body had been completed. (I think that is where the UKs 755 and 756 bodies were made). And although unlikely to be relevant to European orders, Stadler are busy constructing a plant in Salt Lake City, USA.

But it might have some relevance to upcoming tenders, as Siemens will have tied up some of its production capacity if they are going to build 100+ trains of at least 4-6 carriages

Milestone in Szolnok: Stadler manufactures its 6000th car body in Hungary

Milestone in Szolnok: Stadler manufactures its 6000th car body in Hungary

www.stadlerrail.com

 

[Amalie]

No, the 450 sets are the oldest stuff running on the Zurich S Bahn. By my reckoning 116 sets will replace more than just the 450 sets.

Up for the chop are the Domino units so some cascading will probably take place - maybe 514s will move out to replace Dominos in some places

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Nov 2025 ==



Ha ha - that's a laugh considering Stadler went from producing a few bus bodies to supplying half the world's trains and trams in recent years! What more do they want!

It seems to be a quite common sentiment to local manufacturers having failed to tender to their own country. See also what happened when the Belgians went with a Spanish manufacturer for their trains over Alstom (which would have manufactured part of it in Belgium,) and Alstom’s reaction to Eurostar selecting the Velaro over a TGV solution for the e320.

 

[Sorcerer]

Will these trains be part of the Desiro platform or will it be an entirely bespoke product? At first I thought they might've been of the Desiro Verve line, but as I understand it now those are tri-mode units which SBB won't much use for on their entirely electric network.

 

[andersj]

Will these trains be part of the Desiro platform or will it be an entirely bespoke product? At first I thought they might've been of the Desiro Verve line, but as I understand it now those are tri-mode units which SBB won't much use for on their entirely electric network.

Nobody knows, and knowing Siemens it might be under multiple platforms until delivery. The new S-Bahn trains for München was recently called "Mireo City" by Siemens, without having anything in common with the existing Mireo platform.

The passenger coaches from Siemens are also juggling between different names from Viaggio Comfort (New Generation) over Vectouro to Vectrain.

The same with Alstom products where everything is suddenly belonging to the "Stream" platform until it's not.

 

[Sorcerer]

Nobody knows, and knowing Siemens it might be under multiple platforms until delivery. The new S-Bahn trains for München was recently called "Mireo City" by Siemens, without having anything in common with the existing Mireo platform.

The passenger coaches from Siemens are also juggling between different names from Viaggio Comfort (New Generation) over Vectouro to Vectrain.

The same with Alstom products where everything is suddenly belonging to the "Stream" platform until it's not.

This must be why SBB choose to give rolling stock their own name instead of going with one given by the manufacturers.

 

[bahnause]

It seems to be a quite common sentiment to local manufacturers having failed to tender to their own country. See also what happened when the Belgians went with a Spanish manufacturer for their trains over Alstom (which would have manufactured part of it in Belgium,) and Alstom’s reaction to Eurostar selecting the Velaro over a TGV solution for the e320.

The strategic implications can now be assessed in retrospect. However, such considerations must not influence the tender process and the award of the contract in any way, as required by law. The contract is awarded to the bid that best meets the requirements. And the requirements must be suitable for supporting the intended application. Other requirements of a functional or non-functional nature are not permitted.

Ultimately, it is the suppliers who determine the outcome and thus the relevant strategic implications. If SBB includes requirements of a strategic nature that have no bearing on how well the procured product is suited to the application, there is a high probability that an objection to this would be upheld by the Federal Administrative Court.

 

[MPW]

I had been expecting a big order of single deck trains for the s-bahn 2G plan, which was supposed to be an inner metro-style all-stations operation split from an outer longer-distance operation which is express in the centre (using double deck trains).

The SBB Web page where I read about this no longer references the single deck train element, and with this big order, perhaps that plan has changed.

The S-Bahn 2G project of the ZVV

The ZVV and SBB transport planners want to double the capacity on the Zurich rail network for the long-term with the second-generation S-Bahn.

www.zvv.ch

 

[Austriantrain]

I had been expecting a big order of single deck trains for the s-bahn 2G plan, which was supposed to be an inner metro-style all-stations operation split from an outer longer-distance operation which is express in the centre (using double deck trains).

The SBB Web page where I read about this no longer references the single deck train element, and with this big order, perhaps that plan has changed.

The S-Bahn 2G project of the ZVV

The ZVV and SBB transport planners want to double the capacity on the Zurich rail network for the long-term with the second-generation S-Bahn.

www.zvv.ch

Well, your link clearly states that the first steps of it might implemented by 2035 at the earliest and that further infrastructure investment is needed. The current order is to replace stock at the end of its useful life; I would not necesserily draw the conclusion that you drew.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

It looks as if they removed an explicit mention of single deck trains, but the text still distinguishes between double-deckers and "new rolling stock" designed for rapid boarding.

The idea of allowing double-deckers to run on the express S-Bahn while new rolling stock is used on the inner S-Bahn is under consideration. These new trains are primarily intended to enable passengers to board and alight more quickly, which is advantageous for punctuality and timetable dependability.

 

[Amalie]

The strategic implications can now be assessed in retrospect. However, such considerations must not influence the tender process and the award of the contract in any way, as required by law. The contract is awarded to the bid that best meets the requirements. And the requirements must be suitable for supporting the intended application. Other requirements of a functional or non-functional nature are not permitted.

Ultimately, it is the suppliers who determine the outcome and thus the relevant strategic implications. If SBB includes requirements of a strategic nature that have no bearing on how well the procured product is suited to the application, there is a high probability that an objection to this would be upheld by the Federal Administrative Court.

Oh I agree entirely, but it’s unfortunately not uncommon for manufacturers to expect local favouritism and throw a fit when things don’t go their way.

 

[mountainpixel]

The SBB Web page where I read about this no longer references the single deck train element, and with this big order, perhaps that plan has changed.

The single deck option has as far as I know been completely abandoned.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Nov 2025 ==

The same with Alstom products where everything is suddenly belonging to the "Stream" platform until it's not.

Manufactures love to say that, we have a single platform that can be "easily" adopted to your need. In reality, there is no "Lego" train in which you can just add or remove things as you please without making significant changes to the underling platform.

According to Siemens, the new S-Bahn is based on the Desiro-HC. I doubt that much of the HC platform is going to be left after final development and production.

 

[bahnause]

Oh I agree entirely, but it’s unfortunately not uncommon for manufacturers to expect local favouritism and throw a fit when things don’t go their way.

They know exactly how such a tender works and what is and isn't allowed.

I therefore don't quite understand what the point of all the whining is and what benefit can be gained from feeding the common people half-truths. There currently seems to be an organized campaign against this decision.

 

[mountainpixel]

I therefore don't quite understand what the point of all the whining is and what benefit can be gained from feeding the common people half-truths. There currently seems to be an organized campaign against this decision.

You don't need a winning case, you just need that could delay a project. There have been cases of a certain French manufacture getting other deals because they have lost. For example, to refurbish a train.

A bit of a personal opinion, but it also fits perfectly into the party association of Peter Spuhler.