New Bradford To Sheffield Northern Service

[MichaelTrains]

Just reading in the T&A that there are potential plans for a new Northern Bradford to Sheffield hourly service.

The service would call at Low Moor, Halifax Brighouse, Elland (when open) Mirfield, Barnsley, Meadowhall and Sheffield.

The proposed route would use the mothballed Crigglestone curve, last used in the late 1980s, to create a faster, more direct connection.

Great news and a long time coming. For too long passengers in Bradford and the Calder Valley have been forced to change at Leeds.

 

[D6130]

Just reading in the T&A that there are potential plans for a new Northern Bradford to Sheffield hourly service.

The service would call at Low Moor, Halifax Brighouse, Elland (when open) Mirfield, Barnsley, Meadowhall and Sheffield.

The proposed route would use the mothballed Crigglestone curve, last used in the late 1980s, to create a faster, more direct connection.

Great news and a long time coming. For too long passengers in Bradford and the Calder Valley have been forced to change at Leeds.

That will involve spending millions clearing, relaying and resignalling the Crigglestone curve which has become heavily overgrown.

 

[fishwomp]

Rail users call for direct routes to transform journeys across Bradford

Campaigners believe a new train service linking Bradford, Halifax, and Sheffield could revolutionise rail travel across West Yorkshire.

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

A new train service linking Bradford, Halifax, and Sheffield could revolutionise rail travel across West Yorkshire and South Yorkshire, according to campaigners.

The Halifax and District Rail Action Group (Hadrag) has urged the West Yorkshire Combined Authority (WYCA) to prioritise immediate rail improvements in its draft Local Transport Plan, rather than waiting for long-term high-speed or mass transit projects.

I don't think it counts as a "potential plan" yet. It's not going to happen, that's a local users group doing the proposing, but only an aspiration for the councils/mayor..

They've still not proven they can open a station in recent times.. ie. The White Rose debacle!!

 

[D6130]

Rail users call for direct routes to transform journeys across Bradford

Campaigners believe a new train service linking Bradford, Halifax, and Sheffield could revolutionise rail travel across West Yorkshire.

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

I don't think it counts as a "potential plan" yet. It's not going to happen, that's a local users group doing the proposing, but only an aspiration for the councils/mayor..

They've still not proven they can open a station in recent times.. ie. The White Rose debacle!!

....and Elland.

 

[quantinghome]

They've still not proven they can open a station in recent times.. ie. The White Rose debacle!!

To be fair the White Rose debacle is down to the private developer who decided they could manage the project and hold the contract. I guess you could blame WYCA for not insisting they manage it themselves.

 

[MichaelTrains]

That will involve spending millions clearing, relaying and resignalling the Crigglestone curve which has become heavily overgrown.

I guess it'll be a similar cost to the Todmorden curve reopening.

It only needs to be single track for the services using it.

Would it help freight?

 

[quantinghome]

That will involve spending millions clearing, relaying and resignalling the Crigglestone curve which has become heavily overgrown.

Similar to Todmorden then? Although, the Crigglestone Curve is significantly longer and would probably require three bridges to be reconstructed.

 

[Iskra]

I guess it'll be a similar cost to the Todmorden curve reopening.

It only needs to be single track for the services using it.

Would it help freight?

Similar cost, far less benefit.

Isn’t the Hallam Line full South of Barnsley? I remember them cancelling services to run RHTT trains in the past.

 

[YorksLad12]

"Potential" plan is the key part here. The forum is full of potential planners!

As well as the Barnsley-Meadowhall-Sheffield section, I'd imagine that the Bradford-Halifax-Mirfield section is quite busy as well.

It reads to me as if someone's thought "Hey! We can run more local services through Mirfield after TRU"... and had an (in)appropriate fever dream. It's not where most people would spend money, I'd bet, even WYCA.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I guess it'll be a similar cost to the Todmorden curve reopening.

It only needs to be single track for the services using it.

Would it help freight?

It could possibly be useful to freight, but even if it were "green-lit" this morning it'll be the best part of ten years before it's completed. A good chunk of the current freight workings through Healey Mills are the Drax biomass workings from Liverpool, and those (a) wouldn't use it, and (b) might not be a thing in ten years time anyway. The Manchester waste trains would possibly benefit, but those aren't particularly time-sensitive.
If the curve was reopened, there's more potential than just this Bradford to Sheffield idea that happens to have filled some space in the Telegraph & Argus this week. There's a speculative thread on here about possible enhancements to the Huddersfield to Sheffield service, and using Crigglestone (if it existed) would probably allow a faster journey than just skipping a few stops via Penistone.

 

[fishwomp]

It could possibly be useful to freight, but even if it were "green-lit" this morning it'll be the best part of ten years before it's completed. [..

Yup. Bearing in mind that this curve was closed in late 80s when levels of freight traffic passing Healey Mills were far higher than today. If it couldn't survive then, I just don't see it now.. The Hope valley to Dewsbury (Thornhill) cement would be a good candidate to use it, but it seems to be doing fine via Kirkgate and Moorthope (again, less freight there than the 80s - you don't see the many steel trains to Teesside now - so I guess capacity isn't an issue).

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Yup. Bearing in mind that this curve was closed in late 80s when levels of freight traffic passing Healey Mills were far higher than today. If it couldn't survive then, I just don't see it now.. The Hope valley to Dewsbury (Thornhill) cement would be a good candidate to use it, but it seems to be doing fine via Kirkgate and Moorthope (again, less freight there than the 80s - you don't see the many steel trains to Teesside now - so I guess capacity isn't an issue).

The case now would be based on passenger rather than freight usage. Any possible usage for freight (the cement trains being one) would be just a positive side effect. At the time the curve closed, Leeds to Sheffield locals were 2tph (one via Barnsley, one via Moorthorpe) and Huddersfield to Sheffield had just gone hourly. Bradford to Sheffield had long been non-existent. Far more people use the passenger services in the area now than back then, so there's more of a case to reintroduce a service like Bradford to Sheffield now... but is that enough of a case to reinstate the curve? Almost certainly not.
Like many of the commonly suggested reopenings on here (Skipton to Colne being the obvious one) if it had never closed back when it did, nobody would be suggesting to close it now- but putting it back in is probably a step too far. If it was just a case of sending a gang down armed with strimmers it would be a no-brainer, but it's been nearly 40 years so there's some quite substantial trees in the way by now. Not sure about the state of other structures but the bridge over the A636 near Crigglestone (which I drive under at least twice a week) looks to be in a terrible state.

 

[fishwomp]

[..]. At the time the curve closed, Leeds to Sheffield locals were 2tph (one via Barnsley, one via Moorthorpe) and Huddersfield to Sheffield had just gone hourly. Bradford to Sheffield had long been non-existent. Far more people use the passenger services in the area now than back then, so there's more of a case to reintroduce a service like Bradford to Sheffield now... but is that enough of a case to reinstate the curve? Almost certainly not.

FWIW - probably the last passenger service was the old Bradford - Poole or Weymouth summer Saturdays, which I think finished in 1984, did Crigglestone as it called at Barnsley after a Huddersfield run-round; it also did the Greetland Curve.
the 1981 timetable of that shows (dep times)
- Bradford _Exchange_ - 07:10
- Halifax - 07:25
- Huddersfield - 07:54 [the loco used to run round there]
- Barnsley - 08:35
- Sheffield - 09:03

PSUL's archives also show it running until summer 1986 - that's a great archive ): https://www.branchline.uk/PSULdocs.php - Passenger Services over Unusual Lines of the Branch Line Society, listed by year going back over 60 years! )

 

[LittleAH]

Non-starter. Just another user group with a pie in the sky idea, which for some reason a newspaper has printed.

 

[quantinghome]

Non-starter. Just another user group with a pie in the sky idea, which for some reason a newspaper has printed.

Given the infrastructure and capacity challenges that would need to be overcome you're probably right. HOWEVER... taking a simplistic gravity demand model, Bradford-Sheffield is probably the station pair with the highest theoretical demand that has no direct service, so it's not a completely mad idea to connect them directly. The only comparable pair would be Leicester-Coventry but at least there's a proper plan for a direct service. BUT, if you really wanted to run a direct Bradford-Sheffield service it would be much much simpler to just reopen the Wortley curve.

 

[WAO]

The obvious present "fast" route from Sheffield to Bradford would be via Moorthorpe and Leeds. A through service might help.

For intermediate settlements along the valleys, the journey is still possible at present, changing at Mirfield and Wakefield Kirkgate, giving many travel opportunities. Only if great crowds appeared regularly, would the curve need to be restored.

Remember, Geography rules here.

WAO

 

[YorksLad12]

The obvious present "fast" route from Sheffield to Bradford would be via Moorthorpe and Leeds. A through service might help.

It's nearly 10 years since that option appeared in the announcement of the winner of the new Northern franchise (as Bradford-Leeds-Wakefield W-Sheffield-Nottingham). We haven't even got the Leeds-Sheffield bit yet!

HADRAG aren't the worst out there, but I'm surprised they haven't gone with reopening the Pickle Bridge route (near enough) first to offer different routeing and capacity options. Or even an extra platform at Halifax.

 

[Killingworth]

If I caught this afternoon's XC 14.21 from Sheffield to Leeds arriving 15.02, I should be able to catch the 15.13 for Bradford Interchange arriving at 15.32 - 1 hour 33 minutes. Granted in most hours it takes a little longer, but in some it takes a few minutes less.

It's usually a little quicker coming south, often under 1 hour 30 minutes - must be downhill.

Obviously a journey without changes is preferred but with current roughly half hourly options I wonder how that can be significantly improved for how many and at what cost - leaving aside pathing constraints.

 

[skyhigh]

It's nearly 10 years since that option appeared in the announcement of the winner of the new Northern franchise (as Bradford-Leeds-Wakefield W-Sheffield-Nottingham). We haven't even got the Leeds-Sheffield bit yet!

At least the Leeds-Sheffield superfast bit is coming in from December. I suppose it's not too much more to start it from Bradford instead (platforms and pathing dependent).

Maybe if platforms -1 and -2 are ever built it might happen...

 

[MichaelTrains]

Given the infrastructure and capacity challenges that would need to be overcome you're probably right. HOWEVER... taking a simplistic gravity demand model, Bradford-Sheffield is probably the station pair with the highest theoretical demand that has no direct service, so it's not a completely mad idea to connect them directly. The only comparable pair would be Leicester-Coventry but at least there's a proper plan for a direct service. BUT, if you really wanted to run a direct Bradford-Sheffield service it would be much much simpler to just reopen the Wortley curve.

Bradford and Sheffield are second and third in terms of population for Yorkshire.

A direct service is a no brainer.

 

[ainsworth74]

The proposed route would use the mothballed Crigglestone curve

I'm not sure you can describe a line that's been lifted as mothballed exactly

(Though I agree it seems like a good idea in principle to re-open it)

 

[WAO]

If I caught this afternoon's XC 14.21 from Sheffield to Leeds arriving 15.02, I should be able to catch the 15.13 for Bradford Interchange arriving at 15.32 - 1 hour 33 minutes. Granted in most hours it takes a little longer, but in some it takes a few minutes less.

It's usually a little quicker coming south, often under 1 hour 30 minutes - must be downhill.

Obviously a journey without changes is preferred but with current roughly half hourly options I wonder how that can be significantly improved for how many and at what cost - leaving aside pathing constraints.

14.21 to 15.32 - 71 not 93 minutes?, or are you really going via Barnsley?

WAO

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Given the infrastructure and capacity challenges that would need to be overcome you're probably right. HOWEVER... taking a simplistic gravity demand model, Bradford-Sheffield is probably the station pair with the highest theoretical demand that has no direct service, so it's not a completely mad idea to connect them directly. The only comparable pair would be Leicester-Coventry but at least there's a proper plan for a direct service. BUT, if you really wanted to run a direct Bradford-Sheffield service it would be much much simpler to just reopen the Wortley curve.

Wortley would be even more pointless to reopen, because if you're going that close to Leeds you may as well call there and reverse in the station.

 

[Zomboid]

Wortley would be even more pointless to reopen, because if you're going that close to Leeds you may as well call there and reverse in the station.

That depends on whether the stations which would be served already have adequate links to Leeds. If they do, avoiding Leeds would actually be beneficial to accelerate the Bradford to Sheffield service.

 

[YorksLad12]

Wortley Curve was sold last year to... Network Rail. Hopefully for their new knotweed jam factory...

Wortley Curve West Yorkshire

Newspaper report that the Wortley Curve is up for sale in an auction. https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/24018416.disused-line-boost-bradford-services-sold/?ref=socialflow

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[61653 HTAFC]

That depends on whether the stations which would be served already have adequate links to Leeds. If they do, avoiding Leeds would actually be beneficial to accelerate the Bradford to Sheffield service.

Possibly- but anything running that close to Leeds but not serving it is eating up a path that would better be used to serve the biggest destination in the region. If Crigglestone curve still existed, running a new service that way wouldn't come at the cost of something with more demand. Anything using Wortley would.

Sheffield northern approaches are full anyway so it's largely academic, but if there was a spare path between Bradford and Wortley the demand is strongly weighted towards an extra Leeds service. As pie-in-the-sky as the idea of a service via Crig is, it at least would offer a number of journeys not currently offered. Ravensthorpe (for Dewsbury) to Bradford for example.

 

[MichaelTrains]

At least the Leeds-Sheffield superfast bit is coming in from December. I suppose it's not too much more to start it from Bradford instead (platforms and pathing dependent).

Maybe if platforms -1 and -2 are ever built it might happen...

How hard would it be to do a Bradford Interchange to Leeds fast (missing Pudsey and Bramley) then only stopping at Wakefield, Barnsley, Meadowhall and Sheffield?

Could that be done in 60/65 minutes?

You can do Bradford to Leeds in just under 15 minutes on a 158 that misses Pudsey and Bramley out like the Wigan services do.