New rail lines in Scotland

[35B]

Operationally Tweedbank is the terminus, but only because there wasn't enough room in Galashiels town centre. Once they got outside the town, it made sense to continue to Tweedbank and terminate there.

Not to mention that it provides significant parking to act as a railhead. Which incidentally also undermines the case for extension as a significant chunk of the demand is already being met.

 

[stevieinselby]

That's about 7x the population of Tweedbank which is the current terminus!

Essentially, the line runs to the Galashiels and Melrose area, where it has two stations – Galashiels town centre, and Tweedbank parkway serving the wider region.
There is no space for a car park at Galashiels itself, so it made sense to extend the line a short way to Tweedbank where there was plenty of space for a car park for 200+ where the station could act as a railhead for Melrose and towns further afield.
That's a different prospect from building another 18 miles of track to a separate town. If Hawick itself would act as a railhead then it might be a more attractive prospect – but around and beyond Hawick it is very sparsely populated and there is very little potential for additional traffic beyond the immediate town.

 

[Dennyboy]

Not to mention that it provides significant parking to act as a railhead. Which incidentally also undermines the case for extension as a significant chunk of the demand is already being met.

Whilst not totally inaccessible by a rail 'through-route' (as opposed to 'a dead-end' configuration which weakens St Andrews' campaign), the Peebles corridor is in competition with several alignment options consixered for Waverley extension. Never say never

 

[Altnabreac]

Peebles is defeated by geography. Any line to Peebles would at considerable length just serve Peebles as @najaB points out. Peebleshire, along with Kirkcudbrightshire, remains a historic mainland Scottish county guaranteed never to see another train. It is interesting to note the line was closed before Beeching.

Since the reopening of Reston station, Selkirkshire now has the distinction of being the only historic mainland county that does see trains running but doesn’t have a station.

The Gala water being the historic Selkirkshire / Roxburghshire boundary means both Galashiels and Tweedbank stations are in Roxburghshire while 2 sections of the route on the west side of the Gala water in northern Galashiels are located in Selkirkshire.

 

[Millisle]

Since the reopening of Reston station, Selkirkshire now has the distinction of being the only historic mainland county that does see trains running but doesn’t have a station.

The Gala water being the historic Selkirkshire / Roxburghshire boundary means both Galashiels and Tweedbank stations are in Roxburghshire while 2 sections of the route on the west side of the Gala water in northern Galashiels are located in Selkirkshire.

The report of the Boundaries Commission of 1891 appointed under the 1889 Local Government Act transferred the entire burgh of Galashiels into Selkirkshire.

 

[Altnabreac]

If you’re using traditional counties then use the traditional boundaries of traditional counties!

 

[Millisle]

Anything else would take me further off topic.

 

[Dennyboy]

Well is there really much traffic?

Neither settlement was ever particularly large and central to trade

'Certainly A BIT more feasible nowadays than before Chunnel was built and HS2 started. There have to be SOME new-tech' discoveries thus advances made, ie in Tunnel Boring Technology, in the course of the latter venture. 'Largs to Wemyss Bay link and Callander realignment next?

 

[Tormod]

'Certainly A BIT more feasible nowadays than before Chunnel was built and HS2 started. There have to be SOME new-tech' discoveries thus advances made, ie in Tunnel Boring Technology, in the course of the latter venture. 'Largs to Wemyss Bay link and Callander realignment next?

As much chance as Kyle to Mallaig

 

[Dennyboy]

I'll grant you not cheap, at least, by today's standards but never say never.

 

[jadmor]

'Certainly A BIT more feasible nowadays than before Chunnel was built and HS2 started. There have to be SOME new-tech' discoveries thus advances made, ie in Tunnel Boring Technology, in the course of the latter venture. 'Largs to Wemyss Bay link and Callander realignment next?

I can see a lot of holes in that argument.

 

[Dennyboy]

Re-extending the Paisley Canal line to Bridge of Weir or even Kilmacolm? There's a few others mooted in Glasgow as part of the Clyde Metro scheme such as the Botanic Gardens tunnel and some sort of Airport connection. Larkhall to Strathaven would be nice, but relatively infeasible from an infrastructure point of view.

In Edinburgh there's the perennial South Suburban conundrum, but not much else. I have a vague idea in my head for a spur from near Midcalder Junction to serve central Livingston but I don't know how feasible that is – could be a western terminus along with Bathgate for a sort of Lothian S-bahn to North Berwick/Gorebridge in the east.

Branches to Haddington and Penicuik are discussed sometimes but they're probably just not big enough to warrant extensions (and aren't on the way to anywhere else).

'Dare to differ re' Pencuik. Why? Because an alignment effectively linkng Penicuik with Peebles appears under consideration amongst route options for Waverley's extension.

 

[numtot12345]

'Dare to differ re' Pencuik. Why? Because an alignment effectively linkng Penicuik with Peebles appears under consideration amongst route options for Waverley's extension.

Would have thought Edinburgh Tram extension to Straiton, Bush Estate and Penicuik would be more viable as a scheme, with Peebles probably being too far a distance to extend the tram down to?

 

[jeffinabox]

https://www.dunfermlinepress.com/news/25598695.new-report-reveals-target-alloa-dunfermline-line/

Mike Ruskell admirably continues to bang the drum for Dunfermline-Alloa line.

 

[och aye]

https://www.dunfermlinepress.com/news/25598695.new-report-reveals-target-alloa-dunfermline-line/

Mike Ruskell admirably continues to bang the drum for Dunfermline-Alloa line.

I imagine only once something is confirmed to be built and replace the former Longannet power station, nothing is going to happen with the line any time soon. Even then, I would only see new stations at Clackmannan and Kincardine and the Longannet site as viable. The only way I could see the service continuing to Cluross to Dunfermline and possibly beyond, is if the Longannet site becomes a major site for employment.

 

[najaB]

https://www.dunfermlinepress.com/news/25598695.new-report-reveals-target-alloa-dunfermline-line/

Mike Ruskell admirably continues to bang the drum for Dunfermline-Alloa line.

I can't remember if there were any solid numbers posted the last time this came up. How much of a demand would there be for services on this line if it was upgraded to passenger standards? How much would it likely cost to do so?

 

[Falcon1200]

How much of a demand would there be for services on this line if it was upgraded to passenger standards? How much would it likely cost to do so?

The current train service to Alloa is all-electric, while the route onwards to Dunfermline is not in any plan for wiring, nor is Fife yet wired. Only after BEMUs become available would such a service become remotely feasible.

 

[jeffinabox]

https://greens.scot/sites/default/files/public/BreakingTheCircle.pdf

Fife Railway vision from the Greens.

4 projects:
Newburgh Station
Halbeath Park and Ride Station
Fife Coast (Dunfermline-Alloa) Rail Link
St Andrews Rail Link & Tay Coast Improvements

 

[najaB]

4 projects:
Newburgh Station
Halbeath Park and Ride Station
Fife Coast (Dunfermline-Alloa) Rail Link
St Andrews Rail Link & Tay Coast Improvements

The first two are no-brainers. I saw recently that Newburgh station has been costed at under a million pounds, and I can't imagine that Halbeath Park and Ride would be be much over a couple of million for a simple two-platform station.

 

[lachlan]

The first two are no-brainers. I saw recently that Newburgh station has been costed at under a million pounds, and I can't imagine that Halbeath Park and Ride would be be much over a couple of million for a simple two-platform station.

Halbeath looks like a busy park and ride - a station could enable a lot of journeys with interchange from rail to bus.

To really get the most from it, an active travel bridge across the A92 and into Crossgates would make the walk to the P&R much more pleasant.

 

[Zomboid]

The first two are no-brainers. I saw recently that Newburgh station has been costed at under a million pounds, and I can't imagine that Halbeath Park and Ride would be be much over a couple of million for a simple two-platform station.

From a quick Google maps there doesn't seem to be a handy bridge to use for access to the far side, so that's going to inflate the costs somewhat.

 

[najaB]

From a quick Google maps there doesn't seem to be a handy bridge to use for access to the far side, so that's going to inflate the costs somewhat.

If memory serves correct, the railway is on an embankment as it passes the site of the park-n-ride so it might be possible to go under the railway rather than over it.

 

[jadmor]

I agree with those who think that Alloa to Dunfermline wouldn't be justified on potential demand, but I was thinking that it might be possible to bring back the Dunfermline to Perth service by diverting some of the present services from the coast route. the Existing service appears to be very popular for Fife travellers connecting into the Inverness train, and it seems to me that the catchment area of Dunfermline should be big enough to justify such a service.

to speculate even further, with apologies, re-double the Newburgh line, re-open Newburgh and Thornton Junction, and start running a half-hourly service between Ladybank and Perth.

 

[Zomboid]

If memory serves correct, the railway is on an embankment as it passes the site of the park-n-ride so it might be possible to go under the railway rather than over it.

It's still a bridge that needs creating. Going over is probably less disruptive to operations, but I'm not going to attempt to design the station.

It'll probably want more than just a couple of bus shelters too wait in, too.

 

[najaB]

Going over is probably less disruptive to operations, but I'm not going to attempt to design the station.

They managed to put a road bridge under the WCML in a weekend, so it doesn't have to be that disruptive.

It'll probably want more than just a couple of bus shelters too wait in, too.

Okay then, not much more than three million.

 

[Bald Rick]

I saw recently that Newburgh station has been costed at under a million pounds, and I can't imagine that Halbeath Park and Ride would be be much over a couple of million for a simple two-platform station.

Simple two platform stations are typically in the region of £20m, see Reston.

 

[mcmad]

Simple two platform stations are typically in the region of £20m, see Reston.

Although Reston was far from a simple build teetering on top of an embankment with lift structures visible for miles around

 

[waverley47]

https://greens.scot/sites/default/files/public/BreakingTheCircle.pdf

Fife Railway vision from the Greens.

4 projects:
Newburgh Station
Halbeath Park and Ride Station
Fife Coast (Dunfermline-Alloa) Rail Link
St Andrews Rail Link & Tay Coast Improvements

Dunfermline to Alloa, If it happens, which is a big if, it will be on the other side of 2032. It's too much nothingness, too awkward to serve Edinburgh directly, which is the much greater demand; as a rule there isn't much demand for services between small provincial settlements.

It's in the same boat as Grangemouth and Kilmalcolm, being a theoretical easy extension of an existing service, but with a surprising amount of infrastructure needed, and just not enough demand to make it work.


St Andrews will never happen. Enough has been said on that already.


Halbeath is a fine and reasonable place to aspire to put a station, but without some degree of local engagement, you're not going to get it past. As a rule, purely park and ride stations are never cost effective, because the park and ride operator doesn't care about providing the actual station; they'd rather someone else pays for it. If Fife council were interested, you could get a 'Halbeath for Crossgates' station through the planning process, but that's a lot of money for a station with a questionable use basis.

Basically this one depends on who wins the next few Fife Council elections, and what their priorities are.


Newburgh would be a ScotGov backed scheme by comparison, and will eventually happen, but only after BEMUs are introduced. Doing anything before that introduces a performance risk on the single track section. I'm also not sure the rules would actually allow a station in the middle of an unsignalled single line section, so someone might need to pay for intermediate signal sections on this line before any station.

 

[Tester]

I'm also not sure the rules would actually allow a station in the middle of an unsignalled single line section, so someone might need to pay for intermediate signal sections on this line before any station.

Why would this be?

 

[Bald Rick]

Although Reston was far from a simple build teetering on top of an embankment with lift structures visible for miles around

Ok, Okehampton Parkway, £15m. Hairmyres, £16m. East Linton, £15m. Reading Green Park £16m. Allhistoric costs (even Okehampton Parkway), allow for inflation ot future construction costs…