Do you think there are enough British Transport Police?

[Annetts key]

The RMT union has today put out a press statement calling on the planned cuts to the British Transport Police to be reversed. And for restoration of the levels of police to be brought back in line with the numbers from the recent past.

The press statement is below:

RMT calls for BTP cuts reversal and safer railways following Huntingdon stabbing

Rail union, RMT has called for cuts to the British Transport Police (BTP) to be reversed and for urgent action to deliver a safer, properly policed railway following the horrific mass stabbing last Saturday.

The union says new figures show the number of full-time equivalent (FTE) BTP officers has fallen to just over 0.8 per million passenger journeys, down from over 0.9 per million last year — an 11% drop and almost a third fewer than in 2009/10, when there were 1.2 officers per million journeys.

In her latest report to the British Transport Police Authority (BTPA), the Chief Constable warned that the force is now “operating at the limits of safe headcount reduction.”

This year alone, 522 BTP posts have been cut, with another 51 expected to go over the next two years through natural wastage.

RMT says around 1,000 additional officers are needed to return to historic policing levels and ensure a visible police presence on stations and trains.

At the same time, BTP data shows rising crime and antisocial behaviour across the rail network:

• Overall crime up 5.4% last year
• Antisocial behaviour incidents requiring urgent response up 9%
• Violent offences up 14%
• Offences involving women and girls up 12%

RMT says these figures underline the need for a strong, visible BTP presence to protect passengers and rail workers alike.

The union is calling on the Chancellor to ensure funding is made available in the upcoming Budget to rebuild policing levels and restore safety and confidence on Britain’s railways.

RMT General Secretary Eddie Dempsey said: “The horrific mass stabbing on board a train diverted to Huntingdon station has shocked the whole country and underlines why safety and security for rail workers and passengers must be the top priority.

“We need a properly resourced British Transport Police and a visible presence of officers on stations and trains to reassure passengers and protect staff all year round.

“The BTP has seen officer numbers fall by almost a third since 2009, at the same time as violent crime and antisocial behaviour have risen sharply on the rail network.

“The Chancellor should use the Budget to make sure the funds are there to rebuild BTP strength and deliver the safe, secure rail network that our members and wider public deserves.”

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-calls-for-btp-cuts-reversal-and-safer-railways-following/

What do you think?

 

[PLY2AYS]

Absolutely not.

Always a West Country rumour that there are only ever 2 BTP on shift between Bristol and Penzance at any one time.
Unsure how accurate that is, however.

You only have to look at their recent ‘decriminalisation’ of bike theft (which until very recently) was one of their biggest targets or focus in terms of crime on the transport network. It shows, without saying much, that they are extremely under-resourced and stretched thin, so that investigations simply don’t get the time or attention they deserve.

That being said, you could very easily argue the same for home office constabularies.

However, it is most telling that they are being aided in the investigation and proceedings in the fall out of Huntingdon, so as to ensure a positive outcome, arguably something that had the potential to fall flat in court, had they not been offered resources, expertise, manpower and guidance in the ongoing investigation.

 

[The exile]

However, it is most telling that they are being aided in the investigation and proceedings in the fall out of Huntingdon, so as to ensure a positive outcome, arguably something that had the potential to fall flat in court, had they not been offered resources, expertise, manpower and guidance in the ongoing investigation.

Not necessarily - it may mean loan of expertise in areas they (fortunately)don’t have to cover very much. In a similar vein (albeit a less serious one) I suspect the City of London Police would need expert assistance if a Freeman’s sheep were to be stolen while he was exercising his right to to drive them across London Bridge.

 

[deltic]

Outside London and a few other major cities, it would probably be better if BTP were scrapped and local police forces trained a proportion of their officers to deal with railway issues. In most parts of the country, they will always be too thinly spread to be effective.

 

[scotraildriver]

The BTP here is Scotland are worse than useless, most traincrew don't even bother trying to contact them anymore. They never attend, and on the very odd occasion they do just let everyone off anyway. We had a staff member assaulted recently, witnesses and CCTV available,the person was arrested then an hour later walked past the same staff member laughing in their face. The sooner BTP are disbanded and real cops police the railways the better. And don't ever bother telling an officer you've got bodycam footage, the rolling of eyes in that situation is something to behold.

 

[Bedwyn32]

As someone who works on the railways as a guard we could do with more BTP officers.

 

[grumblingalong]

Having once had a complaint submitted about me by a BTP officer that I had effectively asked to be threatened with violence for "asking someone for a ticket too many times" I'm afraid you could double their number and still be nowhere near an effective force. I don't have a good word to say for them.

BTP? Be There Possibly.

 

[PLY2AYS]

Not necessarily - it may mean loan of expertise in areas they (fortunately)don’t have to cover very much. In a similar vein (albeit a less serious one) I suspect the City of London Police would need expert assistance if a Freeman’s sheep were to be stolen while he was exercising his right to to drive them across London Bridge.

Yeah, that’s a very fair comment. I was making an assumption, however, I feel it’s not a stretch to suggest that this is perhaps 50:50… both adding manpower/resources and expertise.

 

[styles]

No, though I also wonder if it would be better to roll it into local police forces. In any case the actual number of 'man hours' needs increasing.

 

[LMS 4F]

In My time in the Wiest Yorks police some 40 plus tears ago I went to incidents including a fatality and serious obstruction of the line causing considerable damage and it was a long time before the BTP appeared at the scene.
Given that they were only based at the Largest stations anything out in the sticks then a delay was going to occur.
How many officers would be needed to ensure their prompt attendance at all incidents I’m not sure. However given the present and likely future financial situation it is not going to happen in anything like enough extra staff for a long time into the future.

 

[The exile]

No, though I also wonder if it would be better to roll it into local police forces. In any case the actual number of 'man hours' needs increasing.

In general I would agree. How many incidents are there where the lack of specialist railway knowledge on the part of an initial responder is going to be more dangerous than a very long wait?

 

[styles]

In general I would agree. How many incidents are there where the lack of specialist railway knowledge on the part of an initial responder is going to be more dangerous than a very long wait?

We could also just train people stationed near railways on the railway-specific legislation and case law.

In general I feel the lack of 'man hours' is more significant though.

 

[Annetts key]

Outside London and a few other major cities, it would probably be better if BTP were scrapped and local police forces trained a proportion of their officers to deal with railway issues. In most parts of the country, they will always be too thinly spread to be effective.

No, though I also wonder if it would be better to roll it into local police forces. In any case the actual number of 'man hours' needs increasing.

In general I would agree. How many incidents are there where the lack of specialist railway knowledge on the part of an initial responder is going to be more dangerous than a very long wait?

If you are going to scrap the BTP, are you not just moving the problem of a lack of resources elsewhere? Many of the other police forces appear not to have enough officers to investigate shop lifting for example.

The BTP is paid for largely by the railway industry and comes under the DfT.

 

[styles]

If you are going to scrap the BTP, are you not just moving the problem of a lack of resources elsewhere? Many of the other police forces appear not to have enough officers to investigate shop lifting for example.

The BTP is paid for largely by the railway industry and comes under the DfT.

For clarity - I'm not actually proposing scrapping the BTP.

I don't really think it would make a significant impact on overall crime levels if BTP were combined with local forces. I think it would be muchly the same.

 

[DarloRich]

Nope, nope and thrice nope

(Nor are there enough policeman generally)

 

[saismee]

As someone who works on the railways as a guard we could do with more BTP officers.

Likewise on gateline, though I would say we need more RPIs too.

 

[brad465]

Likewise on gateline, though I would say we need more RPIs too.

How easily could RPIs be trained up to at least some of the authority of BTP officers on patrol?

 

[185]

On paper, BTP is fairly well staffed. There seems to be a high number of officers with reasons not to / got a higher rank / excuses / phobias of wearing the uniform & being seen in public, and perhaps this can be looked at.

Still some truly excellent BTP officers, proactive, supporting staff - but they sadly are becoming a rarity nowadays. Having worked alongside one other major force doing hundreds of revenue blocks, the difference from the BTP officers sent us on other days was rather annoying.

Example..

BTP "We can't give you his details coz of GDPR"

Other Force "right.. give us yer finger" "aaargh" beep "ok, there's his details mate"

BTP "But they have a ticket, we can't PNC them"

Other Force "ash so they're paying a fraction the fare due, right, let's get their details"

 

[officewalla]

Observed a young lady wanting to report a sexual assault recently. Was a touched/slapped bottom but that should not detract from the allegation. BTP officer turns up, alleged perp most likely still on station as the timeframe was short. BTP constable rather than being galvanised into action to at least apprehend the suspect spends next 5 minutes or so trying to persuade the young lady that it can wait until Monday (this was on Saturday) if she still wants to report the alleged assault and then they can have a look at CCTV to see if the perp can be seen doing anything. There were at least 6 PC and PCSOs on the station at the time just to make it worse. This is not good enough from any police officer of any force.

 

[Judith hambly]

Get rid of btp . They are usless. Never around if u want them so send the few that are left into the main stream police forces. I only ever see them hanging around at big stations doing nothing

 

[Lewisham2221]

Nope, nope and thrice nope

(Nor are there enough policeman generally)

This. Every police force in the country is basically on bare bones staffing levels - home office forces are often no better at responding to or investigating crimes than BTP

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Nov 2025 ==

Get rid of btp . They are usless. Never around if u want them so send the few that are left into the main stream police forces. I only ever see them hanging around at big stations doing nothing

And you would probably stand even less chance of getting a police response to all but the most serious crimes/incidents in the railway.

 

[IanXC]

I have been wondering whether the industry needs to go "all in". When you look around most (all?) TOCs have some manner of security staff employed, Travel Safe Officers or whatnot. Outside of the South East the salaries look to be typically around £26k, whereas a BTP PSCO apparently starts out on £28k. So even if we allow for 20% greater costs for a PCSO that still means that 1.3 security staff equals 1 PCSO - I would bet that 3 PCSOs have a much bigger impact on crime and public confidence than 4 security staff!

 

[markymark2000]

And you would probably stand even less chance of getting a police response to all but the most serious crimes/incidents in the railway.

In my experience, a call to BTP tends to end up with the local force attending anyway. I've heard a similar story from other railway staff members. In many cases too, even if BTP turn up, they end up calling for local police if transport is needed to get someone to a local police station.

I say let's scrap the middleman of BTP, and instead have a team within the local forces who are trained more with railway activities or at least with a more dedicated role to the railways. Yes you end up with the same end result of police for the railway, but at least then you are scrapping a force (and thus saving money through efficiencies there. Funds which could be reinvested into increasing the force). And if local forces are being called up anyway to deal with railway issues because of lack of BTP, and local forces provide more transport for to get people to the police stations, surely it's just easier to coordinate all that if it is under the local forces in the first place.

You could also argue with the train station police stations/offices too, it may even help the local forces to be more visible normally as the train station could act as town centre police station too?

I would bet that 3 PCSOs have a much bigger impact on crime and public confidence than 4 security staff!

By a long stretch, especially if the TOC is using jacket filler security (which seems to be the common thing these days).

 

[Harpo]

I always had very positive impressions of BTP’s staff but their impoverished resources are nothing new. As far back as the late 1990s, frontline ops staff on my patch (a London area) likened BTP to the proverbial chocolate teapot, calling them ‘chocolate plod’.

I have never known BTP to have enough resource to be dependable and, sadly, most other forces seem to have gone the same way.

 

[StoneRoad]

Personally, I think that the BTP needs far more resources than it has at present - many more frontline staff and the backroom personnel - plus it needs more than adequate training & equipment.

 

[furnessvale]

Anyone who believes scrapping BTP and using the local force is misguided.

Even in a city the size of Manchester, such a move would result in ZERO routine patrols of major stations and a very reluctant turnout to railway property even for serious crimes.

 

[RailwayBear]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! As in our area there maybe at times only one car covering from Motherwell to Lockerbie, On numerous occastions my collegues have dialled 999 only for police scotland to say "its out of their juristriction"

 

[jon0844]

I'd say we invest in more BTP to be capable of responding to more serious incidents, at the same time as giving more training to local police forces to deal with more 'everyday' issues like removing someone from a station or dealing with anti social behaviour without waiting for BTP to arrive.

Local police do arrive at stations but often hang back until BTP also arrive, and there seems to be situations where neither can decide who wants to deal with someone - especially if there's a potential of an arrest. Who wants to take him/her, who wants to be in charge and do the report etc etc.

At times you wonder if locals and BTP are actively trying to arrive on scene last.

 

[LMS 4F]

I am not sure what facilities BTP have for detaining arrested people. I suspect that as in my time years ago they rely on Home Office facilities to keep those locked up.
i recall a case where I had arrested a youth for several offences on the railway. When the BTP officer turned up he said he needed his Superintendents permission for him to be kept in custody overnight. I assured him that the youth was going into our cells and he needn’t bother his boss.
The youth ended up with 3 years youth custody and I and others were commended by the BTP.

 

[Jan Mayen]

I seem to recall a report on the news that there will be a visible police presence at major stations after Saturdays incident on LNER.
Travelled every day on National Rail since then, today is the first day I saw some.
(York, as you ask. Four officers, talking amongst each other and railway staff).