AWC Derailment Pendolino recovery discussion

[Falcon1200]

They are never normally split

But the sets were split for the insertion of the extra vehicles, when going from 8-car to 9-car and from 9-car to 11-car? So possible, if awkward!

 

[Yorkshire09876]

But the sets were split for the insertion of the extra vehicles, when going from 8-car to 9-car and from 9-car to 11-car? So possible, if awkward!

Well of course it can be done as part of a major overhaul if it's specifically needed (as was the case there). But it's a lot of work, so why would they do it unnecessarily when the set is clearly in a good enough condition to travel by rail?

 

[Falcon1200]

why would they do it unnecessarily when the set is clearly in a good enough condition to travel by rail?

Because of the awkwardness of turning the whole set? I am still unclear on how people think this could be done, with the set now at Polmadie.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

Because of the awkwardness of turning the whole set? I am still unclear on how people think this could be done, with the set now at Polmadie.

Several people have mentioned places south of Glasgow where a set could be turned. Way less hassle than detaching one vehicle, transporting it both ways by road, then having to reattach and test everything when it returns.

 

[PG]

Because of the awkwardness of turning the whole set? I am still unclear on how people think this could be done, with the set now at Polmadie.

Forgive my uninformed innocence but could it go Polmadie to Edinburgh then to Newcastle, dragged to Carlisle and then head south to Widnes?

 

[Dave W]

Forgive my uninformed innocence but could it go Polmadie to Edinburgh then to Newcastle, dragged to Carlisle and then head south to Widnes?

I was about to ask something similar, but if not possible via Hexham etc, could it not just go round High Level Bridge at Newcastle and back from whence it came? I guess if it's diesel hauled quite a few options are on the table; not sure about routes for which the Pendo is cleared, though.

 

[PG]

could it not just go round High Level Bridge at Newcastle and back from whence it came?

Even better than my suggestion, no dragging needed

 

[800001]

I'm pretty certain that this will have been thought of before they moved the unit.

Potentially a quick assessment on scene of incident, may of shown not much damage to the coupler that could be repaired at Polmadie.

All this talk of unit needing turning is pure speculation.

 

[InOban]

Haul it out back out of Polmadie, take the route via Carmyle to Coatbridge, then it can head south towards Motherwell and the WCML. All these routes are wired. Simple.

 

[norbitonflyer]

From recent experience, to turn sets locally out of Polmadie, they are reversed at Braidhurst loop, which if memory serves, is close to the Mossend complex.

Is that Motherwellm - Holytown - Wishaw? That would require a reversal at Motherwellm and again at Wishaw. The Hamilton Circle looks simpler.

 

[-Colly405-]

From recent experience, to turn sets locally out of Polmadie, they are reversed at Braidhurst loop, which if memory serves, is close to the Mossend complex.

And they do ECS moves Polmadie to Waverley via a reverse at Carstairs S Jn

 

[sprinterguy]

50 or more years ago. Lots of things were done that aren't done now. Also would such a move delay other traffic?

I believe they were referring to modern day railtour locos, though granted it's still of no relevance to an 11 car Pendolino.

 

[Bayum]

I take it from the conversation primarily moving to ‘turning’ that the damage is relatively minor?

 

[Western Gaffer]

I take it from the conversation primarily moving to ‘turning’ that the damage is relatively minor?

As seen in photos, the damage is significant but the vehicle concerned can still be moved by rail if being hauled from the other end, hence the debate about turning, as it's now at Polmadie and can only realistically move towards Glasgow Central....

 

[6Gman]

I may be missing something but if it's at Polmadie with the damaged power car at the rear (eastern end) why can't it be dragged Larkfield Jn, Muirhouse South Jn, Barrhead, Kilmarnock and GSW to Carlisle?

Why would reversal be needed?

(Appreciate layouts may have changed - long time since I had to plan movements in Scotland!)

 

[800001]

I think all talk of turning the set should be moved to a speculative thread.

There is no indication what so ever that the set needs turning.

Polmadie maybe able to fix the damage themselves, damage does look worse that what it actually is due to the paneling on from end all coming off in the incident (which it is designed to do).

 

[Purple Train]

As seen in photos, the damage is significant but the vehicle concerned can still be moved by rail if being hauled from the other end, hence the debate about turning, as it's now at Polmadie and can only realistically move towards Glasgow Central....

I read the original question as being more along the lines of "Is the damage mostly cosmetic?" I've seen nothing that suggests it isn't, but I have no first-hand knowledge, so can anyone put me right on this front?

 

[Western Gaffer]

I read the original question as being more along the lines of "Is the damage mostly cosmetic?" I've seen nothing that suggests it isn't, but I have no first-hand knowledge, so can anyone put me right on this front?

The question connected damage to the discussion about turning, but yes, there are a variety of directions from how it was worded:

1. Can the damaged vehicle be driven? [no]
2. Can the damaged vehicle be hauled (forwards)? [unlikely]
3. Can the damaged vehicle be hauled (backwards)? [yes]
4. Can the damaged vehicle be repaired? [seems likely, but probably too early to say]
5. If it can be, where would this need to be done? [tbc]

 

[norbitonflyer]

The question connected damage to the discussion about turning, but yes, there are a variety of directions from how it was worded:

1. Can the damaged vehicle be driven? [no]
2. Can the damaged vehicle be hauled (forwards)? [unlikely]
3. Can the damaged vehicle be hauled (backwards)? [yes]
4. Can the damaged vehicle be repaired? [seems likely, but probably too early to say]
5. If it can be, where would this need to be done? [tbc]

and 6. If the answer is not "Polmadie", how can it be got there?

 

[Annetts key]

There is also:

• Can the damaged vehicle be repaired sufficiently such that it can either be hauled from the damaged end, or maybe driven from that end at reduced speed? And then proceed to a depot where it can be repaired fully.

 

[sharpener]

390117 has been recovered to Polmadie. Routes exist to allow it to be taken, with or without a reversal, to any likely repair site if it cannot be repaired at Polmadie - the most obvious (assuming no clearance issues) simply being to use the curves on the south bank of the Clyde to take it onto the GSW.

Is Polmadie one of the places where replacement nose cones are held in stock?

If not then

• 7. why was it taken there in the first place? [Maybe it is best equipped to do the other repairs and the nosecone can easily enough be sent to Polmadie.]

 

[35B]

Is Polmadie one of the places where replacement nose cones are held in stock?

If not then

• 7. why was it taken there in the first place? [Maybe it is best equipped to do the other repairs and the nosecone can easily enough be sent to Polmadie.]

Nearest to the incident site, with less disruption to maintenance of the rest of the fleet than at Oxley or Longsight? Plus quicker and easier to organise a drag from the "good" end?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I'm pretty certain that this will of all been thought of before they moved the unit.
Potentially a quick assessment on scene of incident, may of shown not much damage to the coupler that could be repaired at Polmadie.
All this talk of unit needing turning is pure speculation.

At the end of all that, there isn't a direct route into the Alstom Widnes site from the north, so you are into another turning exercise to get there.

 

[Dave W]

Rather than take the unit apart and ship the vehicle by road, presumably the option exists to ship the nosecone north, with relevant fitters if necessary. The question then probably turns to whether Polmadie can accommodate such a repair. Can't imagine it's as simple as a couple of bolts!

Not mentioning turning lest the speculation police turn up.

 

[AndrewE]

Rather than take the unit apart and ship the vehicle by road, presumably the option exists to ship the nosecone north, with relevant fitters if necessary. The question then probably turns to whether Polmadie can accommodate such a repair. Can't imagine it's as simple as a couple of bolts!

Not mentioning turning lest the speculation police turn up.

from what we have been told upthread nose cone replacement is routine and lots are held in stock all over the place (see #337,) so I guess Polmadie will be OK with that. I guess the clincher will be how much extra stuff has been damaged or ripped off underneath (again, mentioned upthread I think) and whether it will be possible to do it on the depot, or get a team in from Ditton to do it without moving the train.

 

[Scotty Dog]

Before it moves anywhere i would imagine the derailed bogie will need attending to and other Tilt equipment and running gear on bogies on the train.

 

[Falcon1200]

Several people have mentioned places south of Glasgow where a set could be turned.

Forgive my uninformed innocence but could it go Polmadie to Edinburgh

Haul it out back out of Polmadie, take the route via Carmyle to Coatbridge

The Hamilton Circle looks simpler.

And they do ECS moves Polmadie to Waverley via a reverse at Carstairs S Jn

All of which require the damaged cab to either be capable of being driven from or coupled to!

I may be missing something but if it's at Polmadie with the damaged power car at the rear (eastern end) why can't it be dragged Larkfield Jn, Muirhouse South Jn, Barrhead, Kilmarnock and GSW to Carlisle?

That is definitely a feasible route.

 

[Archvile]

It would probably be easiest to repair/replace the coupler and pneumatic lines and simply haul it. They could definitely do that at Polmadie.

 

[Razorblades]

Before it moves anywhere i would imagine the derailed bogie will need attending to and other Tilt equipment and running gear on bogies on the train.

It has already moved, to Polmadie shed. That facility is suitably equipped to host/ undertake a detailed examination and staffed suitably to produce a report on damaged and missing components/ systems.

 

[Humftamuft]

As they were overhauled at Widnes, I suspect that may be more likely.

Irrelevant to post really, but Overhaul of 390 is in Manchester