Liverpool City Region-Bus Franchising

[JasonL]

I'd be surprised if they were anything other than ADL or Wrightbus - as I recall LCR have made noises that they want to support British/UK bus building, like Manchester have (the BZLs were ordered by Stagecoach beforehand).

I guess that rules out Volvo's despite the fact that 6 brand new Volvo's have recently entered service operating from the Bootle depot

 

[aswilliamsuk]

I guess that rules out Volvo's despite the fact that 6 brand new Volvo's have recently entered service operating from the Bootle depot

They are part of Arriva's group order, though - just liveried in Metro colours. They weren't funded at all by LCR.

 

[markymark2000]

@domcoop7 I'll respond on this thread as I think there is more to unpack here which doesn't affect Manchester franchising, and I don't want to derail that thread.

Yes the issue is that Liverpool City Region are planning to take a much firmer line on cross-boundary services than Greater Manchester did, including cutting the high frequency and profitable commercial routes from Chester and Preston to Liverpool.

The Chester - Liverpool 1/X1 is continuing under permit.
The X2 from Preston to Liverpool, there are 2 things to unpack. Firstly, it is a split registration and 1 of of the registrations wholly within Merseyside/City Region. Secondly, the Southport to Liverpool bit almost entirely duplicates the 47 which is due to be franchised. Even if you include the full route though, the X2 spends 1h 40, of it's 2h 20 journey, competing against the 47. Understandably, this is not something that the city region wish to have. There are also minimal 'cross Southport' flows on the X2 which aren't accommodated by the 47 and so it's not as if the X2 would be providing something new or different for passengers. I'd also not say the X2 is high frequenecy. It's half hourly, and that was only re-achieved recently because after a long time of it being cut back to hourly.

I don't see what would happen to the 360, or likewise to the 375/385 to Southport from Wigan. Once St Helens depot is franchised, the current operations will cease (since whoever takes it on will not be able to run it and won't be being paid to run it either).

For the purposes of clarity, it is worth noting that the 375/385 are operated by Southport and will not be affected until Southport franchising happens. The 360, we find out the winners in the next month or two, so we may get more clarity then.

Arriva could in theory apply for service permits to both Merseytravel and Greater Manchester and (if granted, which in the Liverpool region is not a foregone conclusion) continue to run those routes commercially, but from which depot, using which buses and which drivers? Warrington's Own Buses could take on the 360 (and would probably get a more positive reception being a municipal), but would they? And it's one thing for Rotala / Preston Bus to run Lancashire County Council tenders in the Ormskirk and Skelmersdale area, but another thing entirely to run an intensive service 22 miles end to end with a 20 minute frequency and approx 2 hour end to end run with no stabling facility en route so far out of their area.

The 360 is only every hour and is a basic 2 bus operation. Much easier to resolve. Given the 360 only serves 8 bus stop pairs within Merseyside, as daft as Merseytravel are, I can't see that permit not being given. Especially when they are permitting permits which are more intensive and serve a lot more stops (Ie 2/X2 between Crossens and Southport and 1/X1 between Eastham and Liverpool).

The 375/385, who knows? If Rotala opened up a depot in Skelmersdale, they have the 311/312 and 319 with 8 bus PVR. Plus could get the 375/385 which is another 13 buses, plus any 'small' Merseyside or West Wigan contracts they can get their hands on..... That's a good old PVR for a depot, but who knows. I am speaking purely hypothetically here.

The thing is this has been mentioned in consultation responses I have seen including CPT submissions to the Liverpool authorities, but they seemingly don't care on the basis "not our problem".

That is a standard response to most things in Merseytravel/City Region. It's their way or no way. They are always right, and you must not question them.

 

[CN12 AWU]

Does anyone know if this list has been updated since origional list got produced for St Helens/Wirral?

There was a link attached to this post from neilcobbe but not sure where he found the document as it was a year ago I wonder if list of services etc may have slightly changed since consultations in both areas etc

Noticed on the attached proposed route list that for St. Helens the 329&360 could be non-metro routes that Arriva currently run. Any ideas why these aren't going to be being run from St. Helens? Would the 360 move to Bee Network & 329 By Warrington BT.

 

[gka472l]

Does anyone know if this list has been updated since origional list got produced for St Helens/Wirral?

There was a link attached to this post from neilcobbe but not sure where he found the document as it was a year ago I wonder if list of services etc may have slightly changed since consultations in both areas etc

Not seen one, however the winning bidders for the St Helens and Wirral franchises are due to be announced very soon, either December or early January......

 

[JasonL]

Not seen one, however the winning bidders for the St Helens and Wirral franchises are due to be announced very soon, either December or early January......

Will we find out everything as soon as the winners are announced? Like the routes and possibly the buses that will operate the franchising. I know the Pulsar 2s which are the most common single decker buses St. Helens have are between 13-16 years old and will end up getting replaced especially with the 09/10 plate Pulsar 2s leaving the fleet soon.

 

[darylyates17]

Not seen one, however the winning bidders for the St Helens and Wirral franchises are due to be announced very soon, either December or early January......

There was confusion over the 329/360 not being included I can see the 329 being included but not the 360 guess time will tell.

 

[gray1404]

The X2 should definitely continue under the new model. What is annoying is in both directions for much of the day the X2 and 47 come within a couple of minutes of each other. So although it is 4 buses an hour between the 2 routes it still feels like it's only a half hourly service.

The X2 does come off the path of the 47 in the Seaforth area and also the Hillside/Birkdale areas into the path of the 53 and 49.

 

[gka472l]

The X2 should definitely continue under the new model. What is annoying is in both directions for much of the day the X2 and 47 come within a couple of minutes of each other. So although it is 4 buses an hour between the 2 routes it still feels like it's only a half hourly service.

The X2 does come off the path of the 47 in the Seaforth area and also the Hillside/Birkdale areas into the path of the 53 and 49.

The X2 wouldn't be part of the franchising, but would work into Liverpool on a permit (as with various routes into the Greater Manchester area from outside), and the same would apply to the 1/X1 between Liverpool & Chester, as Stagecoach Rock Ferry depot won't be part of the franchising. Most of the current Rock Ferry routes (16/17/38/41/42) will be operated by whoever gets the Wirral franchise, and likely operated from what is the current Arriva depot at Laird Street in Birkenhead. Certainly a lot of changes on the way, I suspect most of the current fleets at St Helens & Birkenhead will disappear, to be replaced by a lot of new stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if a load of those Wright Electroliners in build in 'METRO' livery would be for the cross river routes from Wirral into Liverpool......

 

[Statto]

The X2 wouldn't be part of the franchising, but would work into Liverpool on a permit (as with various routes into the Greater Manchester area from outside), and the same would apply to the 1/X1 between Liverpool & Chester, as Stagecoach Rock Ferry depot won't be part of the franchising. Most of the current Rock Ferry routes (16/17/38/41/42) will be operated by whoever gets the Wirral franchise, and likely operated from what is the current Arriva depot at Laird Street in Birkenhead. Certainly a lot of changes on the way, I suspect most of the current fleets at St Helens & Birkenhead will disappear, to be replaced by a lot of new stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if a load of those Wright Electroliners in build in 'METRO' livery would be for the cross river routes from Wirral into Liverpool......

Unless that's changed, Stagecoach Rock Ferry depot is going to be part of franchise area, that's just going to be used for Schools, Laird Street will be used for everything else, apart from the 1/X1 which will move to Chester, the original plan was for 1/X1 to stay at Rock Ferry but that's now changed.

 

[gray1404]

As long as the X2 stays I will be happy. Although it will be good if they would insist that it's timings do not just come at the same time as the 47 and in real terms it provides for more frequent service.

 

[Statto]

Main issue with the X2 (same with 47) is reliability which means they come in pairs, worst part of the route is through Thornton which can take forever to get through at times (certainly longer than 10 minutes), & it's worse since they built the new Aldi.

 

[markymark2000]

Unless that's changed, Stagecoach Rock Ferry depot is going to be part of franchise area, that's just going to be used for Schools, Laird Street will be used for everything else, apart from the 1/X1 which will move to Chester, the original plan was for 1/X1 to stay at Rock Ferry but that's now changed.

Can I ask when that update came out?

The last update that I saw from then MD was Rock Ferry would be a commercial depot for the 1/X1, private contracts, and then any 'small' or 'school' franchises that they could win. With the 16/17/38/41/42 moving to Laird Street in 2026.

As long as the X2 stays I will be happy. Although it will be good if they would insist that it's timings do not just come at the same time as the 47 and in real terms it provides for more frequent service.

Between Preston and Southport, the X2 is safe (barring any commercial decisions made by Stagecoach). Southport to Liverpool though, VERY unlikely.

 

[Leedsbusman]

Can I ask when that update came out?

The last update that I saw from then MD was Rock Ferry would be a commercial depot for the 1/X1, private contracts, and then any 'small' or 'school' franchises that they could win. With the 16/17/38/41/42 moving to Laird Street in 2026.



Between Preston and Southport, the X2 is safe (barring any commercial decisions made by Stagecoach). Southport to Liverpool though, VERY unlikely.

There aren’t any ‘small’ franchises just schools.

 

[markymark2000]

There aren’t any ‘small’ franchises just schools.

This is the call for operators to join the shortlist for Merseyside franchising in Feb 2025 https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/004341-2025

'Category 2 franchises provide EITHER school services, or provide other local bus services'. It's not labelled as 'small franchises' but it is the exact same thing.

II.2.4) Description of the procurement​

On 25 April 2023, LCRCA published an Assessment on Bus Franchising in the Liverpool City Region which sets out the proposed bus Franchising Scheme in accordance with the Transport Act.

In October 2023, the Liverpool City Region Mayor made a Franchising Scheme covering the Liverpool City Region. Franchising is to be introduced over a number of tranches of procurement. Franchised contracts will be let in two categories:

i. Category 1 franchises, which are those Franchise Agreements involving multiple services that will operate from a depot provided by LCRCA. LCRCA will provide the depot from which the services relating to the Category 1 franchise must be operated. LCRCA will predominately provide the fleet that must be used on the Category 1 franchise.

ii. Category 2 franchises, which are those Franchise Agreements which either i) provide services to serve schools or ii) provide other local services. In both cases the franchises will be delivered from an operator's own depot.

This notice relates to Category 2 franchises. The first tranche of Category 2 franchises are expected to relate to St Helens, Wirral and Sefton and South Liverpool.

This notice relates to Category 2 franchises.

Key elements of Category 2 franchises will include:

Delivery of requirement: the operator of each franchise will be required to provide bus services in accordance with detailed individual franchise package specifications.

Revenue risk: the operator will not be required to assume revenue risk. Revenue risk will be primarily taken by LCRCA.

Depots: the operator of each franchise will be required to provide the depot(s) from which the Category 2 franchises will be operated.

Buses: the operator of each franchise will primarily be responsible for providing the vehicles which will operate Category 2 franchises.

Repair, maintenance and servicing of buses: the operator will be responsible for the repair, maintenance and servicing of vehicles whilst ensuring that there are in a roadworthy condition.

Staff: the operator is responsible for ensuring that it has all necessary and suitably trained staff to deliver the requirement detailed in the individual franchise specifications.

 

[CN12 AWU]

This is the call for operators to join the shortlist for Merseyside franchising in Feb 2025 https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/004341-2025

'Category 2 franchises provide EITHER school services, or provide other local bus services'. It's not labelled as 'small franchises' but it is the exact same thing.

The first tranche of Category 2 franchises are expected to relate to St Helens, Wirral and Sefton and South Liverpool.

That's intresting....thought was only St Helens and Wirral didn't realise Sefton and South Liverpool were now included on the first tranch

 

[Fokx]

Unless that's changed, Stagecoach Rock Ferry depot is going to be part of franchise area, that's just going to be used for Schools, Laird Street will be used for everything else, apart from the 1/X1 which will move to Chester, the original plan was for 1/X1 to stay at Rock Ferry but that's now changed.

That's incorrect.

Rock Ferry is to remain privately owned by Stagecoach and will not be used for any Liverpool City Region contract services, schools or otherwise, unless Stagecoach are the successful bidder of such services.

 

[WibbleWobble]

i wouldn't be surprised if a load of those Wright Electroliners in build in 'METRO' livery would be for the cross river routes from Wirral into Liverpool......

Could be Enviros. There's a fair number in Metro livery parked up in the yard at Falkirk.

 

[gka472l]

Unless that's changed, Stagecoach Rock Ferry depot is going to be part of franchise area, that's just going to be used for Schools, Laird Street will be used for everything else, apart from the 1/X1 which will move to Chester, the original plan was for 1/X1 to stay at Rock Ferry but that's now changed.

Rock Ferry depot isn't amongst the depots which are being compulsory purchased by the LCRCA...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Nov 2025 ==

Could be Enviros. There's a fair number in Metro livery parked up in the yard at Falkirk.

They're for Gillmoss

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Nov 2025 ==

LCRCA bus depot compulsory purchase order

Page Not Found

The requested page could not be found

www.liverpoolcityregion-ca.gov.uk

Of note is that Speke & Laird Street include additional land for expansion......

 

[JasonL]

Could be Enviros. There's a fair number in Metro livery parked up in the yard at Falkirk.

The Enviros are going to Gillmoss, not sure where the Electroliner's are going. Possibly Wirral? What St. Helens are getting is currently unknown

 

[Leedsbusman]

This is the call for operators to join the shortlist for Merseyside franchising in Feb 2025 https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/004341-2025

'Category 2 franchises provide EITHER school services, or provide other local bus services'. It's not labelled as 'small franchises' but it is the exact same thing.

Correct but in practice all the local bus services are in Category 1 as there was little interest from the SME market locally in bidding.

 

[CN12 AWU]

Rock Ferry depot isn't amongst the depots which are being compulsory purchased by the LCRCA...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Nov 2025 ==


They're for Gillmoss

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Nov 2025 ==

LCRCA bus depot compulsory purchase order

Page Not Found

The requested page could not be found

www.liverpoolcityregion-ca.gov.uk

Of note is that Speke & Laird Street include additional land for expansion......

The Enviro400's for Gillmoss any idea of Fleet numbers and what routes there for

On the subject of Gillmoss has anyone heard that the E400 City's that are undergoing conversion are moving to St Helens for 10A as apparently once franchising starts all 10/10A will only operate from Jackson Street and won't be multi-operator?

Can anyone shed any light on this?

 

[markymark2000]

Correct but in practice all the local bus services are in Category 1 as there was little interest from the SME market locally in bidding.

That would mean running everything out of Laird Street though, which would be a huge undertaking.

I'll await more official confirmation as the Merseyside franchising has been FULL of needless speculation and misinformation on forums and social media.

 

[JasonL]

The Enviro400's for Gillmoss any idea of Fleet numbers and what routes there for

On the subject of Gillmoss has anyone heard that the E400 City's that are undergoing conversion are moving to St Helens for 10A as apparently once franchising starts all 10/10A will only operate from Jackson Street and won't be multi-operator?

Can anyone shed any light on this?

The Enviro 400EVs at Gillmoss will be 80XXX so 2 digits are confirmed so far and by E400 City's, you mean FCEV's. It is a possibility but no one knows what is happening with them yet as there are currently no chargers or fuel cell tanks installed at St. Helens. Once it is announced that who wins the St. Helens garage in December/January, electric chargers would have to be installed immediately if they want to be ready in time for the franchising in September 2026 and for when the bus station will be built (if on time as well).

 

[domcoop7]

@domcoop7 I'll respond on this thread as I think there is more to unpack here which doesn't affect Manchester franchising, and I don't want to derail that thread.


The Chester - Liverpool 1/X1 is continuing under permit.
The X2 from Preston to Liverpool, there are 2 things to unpack. Firstly, it is a split registration and 1 of of the registrations wholly within Merseyside/City Region. Secondly, the Southport to Liverpool bit almost entirely duplicates the 47 which is due to be franchised. Even if you include the full route though, the X2 spends 1h 40, of it's 2h 20 journey, competing against the 47. Understandably, this is not something that the city region wish to have. There are also minimal 'cross Southport' flows on the X2 which aren't accommodated by the 47 and so it's not as if the X2 would be providing something new or different for passengers. I'd also not say the X2 is high frequenecy. It's half hourly, and that was only re-achieved recently because after a long time of it being cut back to hourly.


For the purposes of clarity, it is worth noting that the 375/385 are operated by Southport and will not be affected until Southport franchising happens. The 360, we find out the winners in the next month or two, so we may get more clarity then.

Actually I noted in one of the documents linked upthread there seems to have been a change of heart of since the last documents I read.

11.4 Impact on neighbouring authorities and cross-boundary services

Feedback received from operators

One large operator and one operator industry body highlighted that consideration should be given to the impact on neighbouring bus networks and cross-boundary services. They stated that ensuring that the sustainability and viability of neighbouring networks are not compromised is important for maintaining overall service levels.

LCRCA proposal post the November 2024 Market Engagement

LCRCA has undertaken a process of reviewing each of the current cross-boundary services in operation across the LCR to determine whether they should form part of the franchising contracts, or whether they will be facilitated through other means, such as service permits. LCRCA will be holding discussions with the relevant authorities and incumbent operators to discuss these services in advance of the EOI phase of the tranche that they relate to prior to finalisation.

Better late than never, I guess, although it does seem surprising they only realised the issue may arise so late on! The original plan was for a Hard Border with service splits near the boundary.

 

[CN12 AWU]

Can I ask when that update came out?

The last update that I saw from then MD was Rock Ferry would be a commercial depot for the 1/X1, private contracts, and then any 'small' or 'school' franchises that they could win. With the 16/17/38/41/42 moving to Laird Street in 2026.



Between Preston and Southport, the X2 is safe (barring any commercial decisions made by Stagecoach). Southport to Liverpool though, VERY unlikely.

I thought the plan for 1/X1 was going to be a full move to Chester hence why they took on 4 bus workings and more was meant to move over to Chester

I presume if that has changed with Rock Ferry staying open for 1/X1 then Chester will loose there 4 workings to keep all duties in 1 garage again?

 

[markymark2000]

I thought the plan for 1/X1 was going to be a full move to Chester hence why they took on 4 bus workings and more was meant to move over to Chester

I presume if that has changed with Rock Ferry staying open for 1/X1 then Chester will loose there 4 workings to keep all duties in 1 garage again?

I believe the plan was for 1/X1 to move to Chester in the instance of the 'hard border', as Merseytravel were looking at having 1/X1 franchised from Liverpool to Ellesmere Port (meaning Chester would have covered Chester to Ellesmere Port). However since then, negotiations seem to have taken place, with the 1/X1 supposedly remaining at Rock Ferry. Whether that is all of the 1/X1 or the 80% that they currently run (with the other 4 duties remaining to Chester), I don't know, such information hasn't been disclosed as far as I am aware.

 

[Northerngirl]

What's the latest with new vehicles

 

[JasonL]

What's the latest with new vehicles

The 58 E400EVs are still at the factory going towards Gillmoss, it is unknown when they will be delivered, there's rumours that the Wright Electroliner's are going to Wirral but the number they made are currently unknown

 

[gka472l]

The 58 E400EVs are still at the factory going towards Gillmoss, it is unknown when they will be delivered, there's rumours that the Wright Electroliner's are going to Wirral but the number they made are currently unknown

I've seen 50 and 120 mentioned......for those who are on FB, here's a link to a post about them https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid....25209603125297893&idorvanity=115633485121537