AWC Derailment Pendolino recovery discussion

[Yorkshire09876]

Moderator note: split from

AWC Derailment at Shap Summit 03/11/25

Reports coming in of a derailed train near Shap Summit up Goods loop. Looking like 1R22 0428 from GLC to EUS https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service-disruptions/penrith-20251103/ A derailed train between Penrith and Oxenholme means all lines are blocked. Trains running between Carlisle and...

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Is there anywhere in the Glasgow area where they can turn the set so that it could head south with the undamaged end leading? I assume that the level of repairs needed will probably be done at Alstom's works in Wigan?

 

[InOban]

Under its own power by the looks of it too!

Is there anywhere in the Glasgow area where they can turn the set so that it could head south with the undamaged end leading? I assume that the level of repairs needed will probably be done at Alstom's works in Wigan?

Surely if that was the case it would have stayed at Carlisle until the line reopened and then gone directly to Wigan.

 

[driver9000]

Under its own power by the looks of it too!

Is there anywhere in the Glasgow area where they can turn the set so that it could head south with the undamaged end leading? I assume that the level of repairs needed will probably be done at Alstom's works in Wigan?

The set can be turned at Carstairs if required. There is no Alstom works in Wigan, you're thinking of Longsight depot in Manchester.

 

[chrisjo]

Is there anywhere in the Glasgow area where they can turn the set

Turning Avanti trains

I travelled from Manchester to London on Avanti a few days ago. The train was the wrong way round. Does anyone know how they turn the train around? Presumably it needs to be over electrified track TIA

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[35B]

The set can be turned at Carstairs if required. There is no Alstom works in Wigan, you're thinking of Longsight depot in Manchester.

As they were overhauled at Widnes, I suspect that may be more likely.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

Surely if that was the case it would have stayed at Carlisle until the line reopened and then gone directly to Wigan.

The broken end is currently facing south!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Nov 2025 ==

As they were overhauled at Widnes, I suspect that may be more likely.

Yep, that was where I meant! i.e. a works designed for heavy overhaul / repair, as opposed to a depot (Longsight, Polmadie, etc) which are primarily operational depots.

 

[sharpener]

Under its own power by the looks of it too!

I was a bit surprised at that. They must have done a pretty comprehensive survey on site to ensure nothing was badly damaged or out of line given the amount of ballast that must have been thrown around.

The set can be turned at Carstairs if required.

Would that also be under its own power (so broken cab end driveable), or shunted?

 

[BillStampy]

Under its own power by the looks of it too!

By the looks of it, not the case. WCR sending up a locomotive to Carlisle from Carnforth, dragging the Pendolino to Polmadie then heading back to Carnforth. Also the first train on the incident lines minus the thunderbird since it happened yesterday morning is the locomotive WCR are using!

 

[Bill57p9]

Out of interest, why would a WCRC class 57* be hired in when there are (DRS) thunderbirds contracted on standby?
Do any of WCRC's 57s retain their Dellners?


I am assuming class 57 on the basis that tomorrow's light locomotive movement from Polmadie to Carnforth is 0Z57
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:26298/2025-11-05/detailed

 

[Yorkshire09876]

Out of interest, why would a WCRC class 57* be hired in when there are (DRS) thunderbirds contracted on standby?
Do any of WCRC's 57s retain their Dellners?


I am assuming class 57 on the basis that tomorrow's light locomotive movement from Polmadie to Carnforth is 0Z57
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:26298/2025-11-05/detailed

Two of the WCRC 57s have had Dellners put back on fairly recently.

 

[b0b]

Under its own power by the looks of it too!

Is there anywhere in the Glasgow area where they can turn the set so that it could head south with the undamaged end leading? I assume that the level of repairs needed will probably be done at Alstom's works in Wigan?

The could send it round the Hamilton Circle maybe? Not sure its a cleared route anymore though but I believe it used to be

 

[Razorblades]

The could send it round the Hamilton Circle maybe? Not sure its a cleared route anymore though but I believe it used to be

From recent experience, to turn sets locally out of Polmadie, they are reversed at Braidhurst loop, which if memory serves, is close to the Mossend complex.

 

[Falcon1200]

The could send it round the Hamilton Circle maybe? Not sure its a cleared route anymore though but I believe it used to be

I've been round the Hamilton Circle on a Pendolino quite recently due to an incident at Uddingston! However the issue with this set is whether it can be driven, at all, from the damaged cab? If not, options for turning it are limited.

 

[themiller]

I've been round the Hamilton Circle on a Pendolino quite recently due to an incident at Uddingston! However the issue with this set is whether it can be driven, at all, from the damaged cab? If not, options for turning it are limited.

It could have been turned on a triangle at Carlisle.

 

[Falcon1200]

It could have been turned on a triangle at Carlisle.

When diesel loco-hauled, but requiring a lengthy propelling move?

 

[themiller]

Routinely done when turning steam locos!

 

[Bald Rick]

There wouldn’t be enough to do it.

 

[zwk500]

Routinely done when turning steam locos!

Propelling only 1 vehicle, not 11!

 

[themiller]

Propelling only 1 vehicle, not 11!

Care to explain why, please? After all, trains are propelled on the system every day - freight on S&C and passengers on ECML.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

Care to explain why, please? After all, trains are propelled on the system every day - freight on S&C and passengers on ECML.

The point about the ECML is irrelevant - the mk4 sets are controlled by a driver in the leading cab, whichever direction the train is going in.

 

[Scotty Dog]

Propelling of rakes if coaching stock is permitted at many locations and listed in the Sectional Appendices, Carlisle being one such permitted location.

 

[zwk500]

Care to explain why, please? After all, trains are propelled on the system every day - freight on S&C and passengers on ECML.

Sectional Appendix special instructions at Carlisle - 'propelling of single vehicles authorised' between Carlisle and Upperby Jn (via the Goods Lines), and between Carlisle and London Road Jn



The rule book has a general provision that trains may propel past no more than 1 main aspect signal, which IIRC (very open to correction) doesnt have a specific length mentioned.

To turn on the triangle without a length limit, you would need to be propelling from Upperby Goods Loops to Petteril Bridge Jn. This requires the loco to be on the south end.

 

[800001]

Propelling of rakes if coaching stock is permitted at many locations and listed in the Sectional Appendices, Carlisle being one such permitted location.

Maybe so, but how is the damaged Pendolino getting from Carlisle to Polmadie if it has been turned at Carlisle?

It can't be propelled all the way to Polmadie.

 

[Steddenm]

Maybe so, but how is the damaged Pendolino getting from Carlisle to Polmadie if it has been turned at Carlisle?

It can't be propelled all the way to Polmadie.

It didn't need to turn and under its own power. The driving cab (northend) isn't damaged.

 

[800001]

It didn't need to turn and under its own power. The driving cab (northend) isn't damaged.

Fully aware of that! People were on about getting the set turned, including at Carlisle.

People have been mentioning propelling!

It didn't move under its own power, it was hauled all the way.

Post 357 and 358!

 

[Falcon1200]

It didn't need to turn and under its own power. The driving cab (northend) isn't damaged.

The question is, if the damaged south end car cannot be repaired at Polmadie, how would the set head south to another location, and if that does indeed to be done, how would it be accomplished without turning the whole set, which is where the issue of propelling comes in?!!

 

[D6130]

The question is, if the damaged south end car cannot be repaired at Polmadie, how would the set head south to another location, and if that does indeed to be done, how would it be accomplished without turning the whole set, which is where the issue of propelling comes in?!!

I suspect that it would be detached from the rest of the set and put on a low-loader for a road trip to Widnes.

 

[cats_five]

Routinely done when turning steam locos!

50 or more years ago. Lots of things were done that aren't done now. Also would such a move delay other traffic?

 

[Falcon1200]

I suspect that it would be detached from the rest of the set and put on a low-loader for a road trip to Widnes.

That would be the simplest option!

 

[Yorkshire09876]

That would be the simplest option!

Quite possibly not! Pendolinos have bolted bar couplers and multiple electrical connections between vehicles. They are never normally split - the depots have sets of jacks to lift whole sets at a time to avoid this.

If the set did need to go to Widnes it would probably be far easier to turn it so that it could be dragged south with the damaged end at the rear.