Euston to Glasgow needs to go half-hourly

[Sad Sprinter]

Every. Single. Time. People are standing, luggage blocking corridors no access to the buffet. It’s a massive stress every time I use it.

It certainly needs a second train an hour. Maybe with a stop at Nuneaton for connections east. Long-distance Intercity travel should not be like this.

 

[waverley47]

Every. Single. Time. People are standing, luggage blocking corridors no access to the buffet. It’s a massive stress every time I use it.

It certainly needs a second train an hour. Maybe with a stop at Nuneaton for connections east. Long-distance Intercity travel should not be like this.

A couple of questions, just before we begin diagnosing a problem.

Firstly, which trains are you getting, and when? Are we talking about northbound or southbound services, at peak times or during the day? Which days of the week, during disruption or normal running?

Are you on these trains the whole distance, or do you get off earlier? Do the trains empty out aling the way, or are they busy the whole distance?

There are multiple possible solutions to a problem of overcrowding, and so it's best to get a whole picture before we move onto solutions.

 

[D6130]

Every. Single. Time. People are standing, luggage blocking corridors no access to the buffet. It’s a massive stress every time I use it.

It certainly needs a second train an hour. Maybe with a stop at Nuneaton for connections east. Long-distance Intercity travel should not be like this.

That's not my experience....but I'm usually travelling North of Preston. Perhaps there is a need for additional Euston-Preston (and onwards to Blackpool or Lancaster?) services with more intermediate calls South of Warrington?

 

[Brubulus]

WCML south is at capacity, the only way I can see this working is by splitting the second Liverpool or the Chester at Crewe to add a Lancaster/Preston/Blackpool portion, which would enable Glasgow services to run nonstop to Preston. This would use 10/12 car 80x (2x805 or 807+805)

 

[Sad Sprinter]

A couple of questions, just before we begin diagnosing a problem.

Firstly, which trains are you getting, and when? Are we talking about northbound or southbound services, at peak times or during the day? Which days of the week, during disruption or normal running?

Are you on these trains the whole distance, or do you get off earlier? Do the trains empty out aling the way, or are they busy the whole distance?

There are multiple possible solutions to a problem of overcrowding, and so it's best to get a whole picture before we move onto solutions.

Ok. Usually I’m going no further than Preston. Oftentimes the train at Preston arrives at capacity. I did a trip to Glasgow last autumn during the week and found the northbound journey okay, but the southbound at capacity from Glasgow. I do London to Preston at back at weekends and sometimes during the week. Weekday midday is the quietest, over time it’s either nearing capacity or over.

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WCML south is at capacity, the only way I can see this working is by splitting the second Liverpool or the Chester at Crewe to add a Lancaster/Preston/Blackpool portion, which would enable Glasgow services to run nonstop to Preston. This would use 10/12 car 80x (2x805 or 807+805)

I think you’re right.

 

[BlueLeanie]

Every. Single. Time. People are standing, luggage blocking corridors no access to the buffet. It’s a massive stress every time I use it.

It certainly needs a second train an hour. Maybe with a stop at Nuneaton for connections east. Long-distance Intercity travel should not be like this.

In the near future, Lumo will be running an extra daily 5 services from Stirling to London via some major Glasgow suburbs. This could make a difference.

 

[JonathanH]

Euston to Preston does run 2tph but with half of the service going via the West Midlands. It isn't necessarily clear that Euston to Glasgow via the Trent Valley can run half hourly because of the lighting of freight and passenger trains north of Preston.

The balance of 9 and 11 car trains on Avanti services sometimes leads to a mix of overloaded services and services with spare capacity.

However, today there is engineering work affecting the service pattern.

 

[yorksrob]

I tend to use the line North of Preston and I find services pretty busy.

I suspect longer TPE's would help.

 

[Halwynd]

About a year ago I used the 20:06 Glasgow - Crewe. Couldn't believe how busy it was mid-week. Pre-Covid it was usually half-empty.

Could the LNWR Euston - Crewe service not be extended to Preston?

 

[Port Road]

Knock out one of the three trains per-hour to Manchester and make it a Glasgow, first stop Preston then Carlisle only. I'll get my coat.....

 

[Sorcerer]

Aside from WCML South being at capacity I'm not quite sure there would be enough trains to actually run the service without cutting back elsewhere. As I understand it the Glasgow services weren't even full hourly before the four new eleven-coach Pendolinos were delivered in 2011.

So you'd need to either cut back on the second Liverpool that stops in the Trent Valley, which would leave it was just an hourly 807 that won't provide sufficient capacity, or you could possibly alter the path of the Scotland services that run via the West Midlands which would come with it's own issues. Someone is going to lose out somewhere.

 

[NCT]

If only there was a scheme intended to provide just that ...

 

[Sad Sprinter]

What I don’t understand is how there can be no capacity north of Preston, when HS2 was going to add an extra 2 trains an hour north of there?

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About a year ago I used the 20:06 Glasgow - Crewe. Couldn't believe how busy it was mid-week. Pre-Covid it was usually half-empty.

Could the LNWR Euston - Crewe service not be extended to Preston?

Isn’t that going to Manchester?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Nov 2025 ==

Euston to Preston does run 2tph but with half of the service going via the West Midlands. It isn't necessarily clear that Euston to Glasgow via the Trent Valley can run half hourly because of the lighting of freight and passenger trains north of Preston.

The balance of 9 and 11 car trains on Avanti services sometimes leads to a mix of overloaded services and services with spare capacity.

However, today there is engineering work affecting the service pattern.

Why weren’t all trainsets lengthened to 11 cars?

 

[Peter0124]

Maybe they could run a few extra Euston - Glasgow services a day similar to what they did with Euston - Blackpool via Trent Valley, even replacing those? But then do they have enough pendolinos to do 800 mile round trips?

 

[dk1]

Why weren’t all trainsets lengthened to 11 cars?

Because those at the DfT always think they know better and end up doing things half hearted

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Remember Euston-Glasgow wasn’t hourly originally after VHF. Several only went as far as Lancaster.

 

[Halwynd]

Isn’t that going to Manchester?

Ah, I wasn't aware of that. Pity, it would have provided several benefits; pressure off Avanti as well as a return to better journey opportunities to Crewe, Stafford, Nuneaton etc.

 

[philosopher]

Knock out one of the three trains per-hour to Manchester and make it a Glasgow, first stop Preston then Carlisle only. I'll get my coat.....

Once HS2 from Old Oak Common to Curzon Street opens, one of the Avanti Euston to Birmingham services could be shifted from Euston to Glasgow instead to provide two trains an hour to Glasgow. I am not sure if there would be capacity at Colwich junction for this though.

 

[dk1]

From what I recall the 10:30, 12:30 & 14:30 ex-Euston never made it beyond Lancaster except for the latter on Fridays. Also there was a 16:57 & 17:57 Euston-Glasgow which were utilised for stops in the Trent Valley. The latter only lasted a couple of timetables before being terminated at Carlisle. Loadings were not exceptional on either north of Preston.

 

[Sorcerer]

Why weren’t all trainsets lengthened to 11 cars?

Because those at the DfT always think they know better and end up doing things half hearted

It's even worse when you consider that Virgin were allegedly prepared to finance the extension of the remaining 21 nine-coach units, yet the DfT blocked it. If this is true then it's yet another example of the civil service making a poor micromanaging decision instead of letting the actual industry management run the railway. Whatever you may think of them, Virgin actually seemed very good in situations where they actually had proper control.

 

[dk1]

It's even worse when you consider that Virgin were allegedly prepared to finance the extension of the remaining 21 nine-coach units, yet the DfT blocked it. If this is true then it's yet another example of the civil service making a poor micromanaging decision instead of letting the actual industry management run the railway. Whatever you may think of them, Virgin actually seemed very good in situations where they actually had proper control.

Totally this. They wanted all Voyagers lengthened to six vehicles but those pesky meddlers shot that down too!!

 

[TheGrew]

I'm currently sitting on a fairly busy southbound service (17:10 off Carlisle to Birmingham International) it's a 9 car set tonight, and the standard is busy, whilst the standard premium carriage is basically empty.
In my opinion as someone who regularly does Warrington-Euston and back, I think more capacity is needed as far as Preston (based on many conversations I have had with other travellers). I would probably choose to solve it with a more regular service to Blackpool or potentially Lancaster, though. I also think the Lumo Euston->Rochdale could help on the Warrington-Euston section.

 

[jfollows]

The service was about once every 2 hours after electrification in 1974, albeit with extra trains for intermediate stops between Preston and Carlisle.
It’s great to see it hourly now, plus extra services via Birmingham also which effectively make it two per hour from Stafford north.
I used these because they call at Crewe.
But my experience has always been that they empty north of Preston. Except Sundays from Edinburgh, so I tend to use them down on Friday and back up on Monday.

 

[Bald Rick]

I use the service a few times a year, various times of the day / week. Yes they are busy. Sometimes stsnding which obviously isn’t good. But severe crowding is, in my experience, rare.

What I don’t understand is how there can be no capacity north of Preston, when HS2 was going to add an extra 2 trains an hour north of there?

HS2 wasnt going to add 2 extra trains. It was going to add one, and to do that needed some expensive work to deliver it.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I'm currently sitting on a fairly busy southbound service (17:10 off Carlisle to Birmingham International) it's a 9 car set tonight, and the standard is busy, whilst the standard premium carriage is basically empty.
In my opinion as someone who regularly does Warrington-Euston and back, I think more capacity is needed as far as Preston (based on many conversations I have had with other travellers). I would probably choose to solve it with a more regular service to Blackpool or potentially Lancaster, though. I also think the Lumo Euston->Rochdale could help on the Warrington-Euston section.

My train today had a full house even in standard premium unfortunately

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Nov 2025 ==

It's even worse when you consider that Virgin were allegedly prepared to finance the extension of the remaining 21 nine-coach units, yet the DfT blocked it. If this is true then it's yet another example of the civil service making a poor micromanaging decision instead of letting the actual industry management run the railway. Whatever you may think of them, Virgin actually seemed very good in situations where they actually had proper control.

That is truly, truly awful. One of the things that you can see being a rail enthusiast is that the British State is not there to make the population’s lives easier, it’s run like a private corporation of some sort - and you can’t vote to change it!

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Because those at the DfT always think they know better and end up doing things half hearted

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Remember Euston-Glasgow wasn’t hourly originally after VHF. Several only went as far as Lancaster.

I suppose this was when domestic flying was more popular in the 2000s?

 

[dk1]

My train today had a full house even in standard premium unfortunately

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Nov 2025 ==



That is truly, truly awful. One of the things that you can see being a rail enthusiast is that the British State is not there to make the population’s lives easier, it’s run like a private corporation of some sort - and you can’t vote to change it!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Nov 2025 ==



I suppose this was when domestic flying was more popular in the 2000s?

Virgin Trains made inroads into the Glasgow-London domestic flight market after 2008 when VHF was launched. By around 2012 they were starting to tip the scales but there is still a huge amount that only fly that route even now.

 

[Zomboid]

I'm sure I read on here that rail had a much higher share of the Edinburgh to London market than for Glasgow. Obviously different cities, but that does suggest that there could be demand for more rail travel.

In my limited experience though, the existing trains are far from full at the Scottish end, so higher frequency probably isn't necessary just yet.

 

[BlueLeanie]

Virgin Trains made inroads into the Glasgow-London domestic flight market after 2008 when VHF was launched. By around 2012 they were starting to tip the scales but there is still a huge amount that only fly that route even now.

Part of the trouble is the sheer expense of getting into central London to make the connection. I've a colleague who works at TVP, they might be able to get a great value Advance ticket from Euston to Glasgow, but then the connecting ticket from Reading is going to cost more than the ticket to Glasgow. You can drive to Heathrow and park for a long weekend for less than a peak train to Paddington.

Whether that dynamic changes if E-W ever opens for passenger services and Reading passengers can get to MK quicker than getting to Euston I'm sure we'll find out.

 

[Nottingham59]

What I don’t understand is how there can be no capacity north of Preston, when HS2 was going to add an extra 2 trains an hour north of there?

HS2 Phase 1 by itself wasn't going to add any paths north of Preston.
Phase 1 plus phase 2a was going to add one.
The "Full Y Network" was planned to add five paths north of Carlisle: 2tph splitting at Carlise =4tph, and 1tph alternating between Glasgow and Edinburgh.

The critical intervention when (if) HS2 phase 1 is opened to Handsacre will be extending platforms at Crewe, Preston, Carlisle to handle 400m trains. And then work out how to extend platforms across the river at Glasgow Central and add more than one 400m-capable platform at Waverley.

 

[dk1]

Part of the trouble is the sheer expense of getting into central London to make the connection. I've a colleague who works at TVP, they might be able to get a great value Advance ticket from Euston to Glasgow, but then the connecting ticket from Reading is going to cost more than the ticket to Glasgow. You can drive to Heathrow and park for a long weekend for less than a peak train to Paddington.

Whether that dynamic changes if E-W ever opens for passenger services and Reading passengers can get to MK quicker than getting to Euston I'm sure we'll find out.

And of course these things are unknown yet but there is probably little chance of faster Trent Valley Glasgow services calling at Milton Keynes so there will always be that time penalty.

Although lots of people take environmental issues seriousl, so many don’t and cost is key regardless of the damage done to the environment.

 

[cle]

About a year ago I used the 20:06 Glasgow - Crewe. Couldn't believe how busy it was mid-week. Pre-Covid it was usually half-empty.

Could the LNWR Euston - Crewe service not be extended to Preston?
[/QUOTE]

Isn’t that going to Manchester?

Supposedly the Manchester Airport is coming from the Stafford-Crewe-Stoke... running down to Birmingham too.

The Crewe going to Preston (or a Birmingham-Liverpool instead) would be interesting. A slog end to end though.

In addition to Preston, it feels like Warrington and Wigan need additional service - as well as some TV calls which have come in through the newer Liverpool and Manchester patterns.