Stagecoach Cumbria and North Lancashire

[Megafuss]

I suppose it was a pretty small area compared to NW Explorer. I would travel in from Penrith or Carlisle, the Central Lakes would not cover that.

I think Stagecoach are really targeting those that arrive in Windermere by Train. That's a captive market of hundreds a day who are now going to be paying £12 instead of £10 (unless they buy singles of course). That's a lot of two pounds.

Chances are, if you're a fare payer coming from Carlisle, Barrow or Lancs, you are buying the NW Explorer anyway.

The thing that would really help is a Tap on tap off fare system and it takes painfully long for drivers to process tickets. It really was evident the many times I used the 555 and X4/X5 this summer how much of a delay is caused by driver interaction.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think Stagecoach are really targeting those that arrive in Windermere by Train. That's a captive market of hundreds a day who are now going to be paying £12 instead of £10 (unless they buy singles of course). That's a lot of two pounds.

Chances are, if you're a fare payer coming from Carlisle, Barrow or Lancs, you are buying the NW Explorer anyway.

The thing that would really help is a Tap on tap off fare system and it takes painfully long for drivers to process tickets. It really was evident the many times I used the 555 and X4/X5 this summer how much of a delay is caused by driver interaction.

I suspect that it is a way of relieving more tourists of their money which is perhaps not a bad way of paying for the Lakes network.

Not certain how much interaction would be saved by TOTO. I suspect a lot is those same tourists asking questions of the driver... does this bus go to X, can I get off at Y, what times do the buses come back from Z (and this is despite the travel guide)

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect that it is a way of relieving more tourists of their money which is perhaps not a bad way of paying for the Lakes network.

I suspect there were also arguments with drivers by confused tourists who thought it covered the whole of the Lakes as it logically might. But you couldn't use it to Keswick.

Not certain how much interaction would be saved by TOTO. I suspect a lot is those same tourists asking questions of the driver... does this bus go to X, can I get off at Y, what times do the buses come back from Z (and this is despite the travel guide)

It saves lots of time wherever it is implemented (or might save the cost of having a static member of staff selling tickets at busy places in summer). The barrier for Stagecoach is probably just that they don't use Ticketer which offers it off the shelf. Mind you, they could do with replacing their machines - I find the machine they do use has a bad habit of not liking Apple Pay, which wastes a load of extra time getting a physical card or cash out when it doesn't work, and could be an issue for Gen Zers who only carry a phone.

 

[JKP]

I suspect that it is a way of relieving more tourists of their money which is perhaps not a bad way of paying for the Lakes network.

Not certain how much interaction would be saved by TOTO. I suspect a lot is those same tourists asking questions of the driver... does this bus go to X, can I get off at Y, what times do the buses come back from Z (and this is despite the travel guide)

Am unfamiliar with TOTO as my local operator does not have it either though uses Ticketer.

I was in Grasmere on a sunny Saturday afternoon a couple of weeks ago and was surprised how quickly Stagecoach buses northbound and southbound loaded the not insignificant numbers boarding in each direction. In my experience my local drivers are much slower and those passengers who store everything on their phone are much slower than those paying with cash or card.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It saves lots of time wherever it is implemented

It does in urban areas. But it doesn't so much in areas where people are unfamiliar with the ticketing and are unfamiliar with where the buses go. An example of this is in Merseyside: generally, Arriva buses are quicker now they have tap-on and capping, but the notable exception is the 500 to/from the airport.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It does in urban areas. But it doesn't so much in areas where people are unfamiliar with the ticketing and are unfamiliar with where the buses go. An example of this is in Merseyside: generally, Arriva buses are quicker now they have tap-on and capping, but the notable exception is the 500 to/from the airport.

Exactly my point. It is undoubtedly quicker in urban areas - regular flows, regular users, etc, etc.

In a tourist area, you're going to get a lot of people who are unfamiliar with buses, times, geography and that's what I suspect is part of the problem here.

 

[mangad]

I suppose it was a pretty small area compared to NW Explorer. I would travel in from Penrith or Carlisle, the Central Lakes would not cover that.

A small area but many of the passengers would have been pootling around the Grasmere/Ambleside/Windermere tourist corridors

 

[Megafuss]

I suspect that it is a way of relieving more tourists of their money which is perhaps not a bad way of paying for the Lakes network.

Not certain how much interaction would be saved by TOTO. I suspect a lot is those same tourists asking questions of the driver... does this bus go to X, can I get off at Y, what times do the buses come back from Z (and this is despite the travel guide)

That's a fair point. You do see 30/40 people at a time storm off the train at Windermere and charge towards the first bus they see, irrespective if it's the correct one.

On the flip side, a couple of weeks ago around 20 people boarded the 77 at Honister pass. it took 8 mins to board them as they all wanted singles.. If they could just tap a card on a reader, it would have taken half the time, which would definitely help the timekeeping on this awkward route.

 

[mangad]

Spending a few days in Keswick and I have been very surprised at how many non Lakes Connection branded buses have been out and about. I hope this is not a sign that the corporate livery brigade have taken hold of the Lakeland routes!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Spending a few days in Keswick and I have been very surprised at how many non Lakes Connection branded buses have been out and about. I hope this is not a sign that the corporate livery brigade have taken hold of the Lakeland routes!

That would be sad as it's one of the nicest liveries I know.

 

[Andyh82]

You don’t see as many Lakes livery buses in Keswick as you do in the central lakes/Windermere area

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Spending a few days in Keswick and I have been very surprised at how many non Lakes Connection branded buses have been out and about. I hope this is not a sign that the corporate livery brigade have taken hold of the Lakeland routes!

That would be sad as it's one of the nicest liveries I know.

You don’t see as many Lakes livery buses in Keswick as you do in the central lakes/Windermere area

It’s a lot more prosaic than that.

Services in the central Lakes are operated by Kendal depot and I think all their vehicles are in Lakes livery.

The other routes are done from Lillyhall in the main. They have the minimum of vehicles in Lakes livery so any substitutes (or a lack of discipline) means there’s non branded buses out.

 

[mangad]

It’s a lot more prosaic than that.

Services in the central Lakes are operated by Kendal depot and I think all their vehicles are in Lakes livery.

The other routes are done from Lillyhall in the main. They have the minimum of vehicles in Lakes livery so any substitutes (or a lack of discipline) means there’s non branded buses out.

Normally the X4/X5 and 555 are pretty reliable to be in Lakes Connection. Not today! And the 77 was in that dull new blue livery.

 

[CN12 AWU]

I believe Preston/Chorley operations move to Cumbria and North Lancs licence in January can anyone confirm this

This is apparently due to Gillmoss/Birkenhead and Chester moving onto the Stagecoach Manchester licence meaning Merseyside licence will no longer exist

Not sure how true this is but there was a post doing rounds with a image from a Stagecoach internal message

 

[peterblue]

I believe Preston/Chorley operations move to Cumbria and North Lancs licence in January can anyone confirm this

This is apparently due to Gillmoss/Birkenhead and Chester moving onto the Stagecoach Manchester licence meaning Merseyside licence will no longer exist

Not sure how true this is but there was a post doing rounds with a image from a Stagecoach internal message

I believe that to be correct. It's not officially confirmed yet.

 

[cainebj]

Seems more poor allocation than getting rid of livery. As unreliable as bustimes.org can be, 3 of the Lakes liveried X4/X5 branded E400MMCs are tracking on 30/300 today, the other 4 not tracking. 1 of the branded Scania E400s is on X4/X5 with another 2 on 30/300. Both Lakes livery Scania E300s on 30/300. 5 of the older/non-Lakes livery 60/61/13 plate Scania E400s and an 11 plate E300 have been tracking in service on X4/X5 instead with 10017 from Penrith outstation.

Only 1 of the 2 Buttermere branded Solo SRs is tracking out with steel blue 47729 (seems quite a regular).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Seems more poor allocation than getting rid of livery. As unreliable as bustimes.org can be, 3 of the Lakes liveried X4/X5 branded E400MMCs are tracking on 30/300 today, the other 4 not tracking. 1 of the branded Scania E400s is on X4/X5 with another 2 on 30/300. Both Lakes livery Scania E300s on 30/300. 5 of the older/non-Lakes livery 60/61/13 plate Scania E400s and an 11 plate E300 have been tracking in service on X4/X5 instead with 10017 from Penrith outstation.

Only 1 of the 2 Buttermere branded Solo SRs is tracking out with steel blue 47729 (seems quite a regular).

This is my point (and yes, with the caveat of how accurate BusTimes might or might not be)

Kendal is responsible for the 555, 599, 508, 516, 505 routes; they have nothing other than Lakes liveried vehicles so the routes that are centred around Windermere/Ambleside are going to be Lakes liveried vehicles. In fact, it means you get Lakes vehicles trundling around on Kendal local routes and even out to Kirkby Lonsdale.

The flipside is Lillyhall that has two branded Solos for two boards. If one is VOR, you get a non branded one on the 77. As for the X4/X5, that should have enough liveried vehicles from Lillyhall but the Penrith board is reliant on having Carlisle's sole liveried decker. However, the X4/X5 is prone to a rogue allocation from Lillyhall but looking at BT, it would seem many of the 68 plates are on the trunk 30/300 whilst most of the 16 plates are VOR???

Talking of the 68 plates, weren't they all repainted from Gold (X17 at Chesterfield) into Lakes Connection colours within the last 6 months?? Hardly an indication of getting rid of the image?

 

[Teapot42]

Talking of the 68 plates, weren't they all repainted from Gold (X17 at Chesterfield) into Lakes Connection colours within the last 6 months?? Hardly an indication of getting rid of the image?

11125 is still in Gold, but it's also the only one at Carlisle. When they first moved it looked like they were going to be used on the 685; maybe that was only until they could be painted? I was surprised to see 11122 on a recent visit to Keswick, but hadn't been keeping up with what had happened to them since leaving. I certainly hope they are more reliable than they had become in Chesterfield - it was becoming unwelcomely common to have X17 failures, and it was never the Scanias at fault.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

11125 is still in Gold, but it's also the only one at Carlisle. When they first moved it looked like they were going to be used on the 685; maybe that was only until they could be painted? I was surprised to see 11122 on a recent visit to Keswick, but hadn't been keeping up with what had happened to them since leaving. I certainly hope they are more reliable than they had become in Chesterfield - it was becoming unwelcomely common to have X17 failures, and it was never the Scanias at fault.

Correct - I was referring to the ones allocated to the X4/X5 and yes, there is the errant 1125 still in Gold.

Seems to be a lot of 16 plate and 68 plates not in use, but with the caveat that it's bus times so they may be used on other work or not tracking

 

[Andyh82]

Correct - I was referring to the ones allocated to the X4/X5 and yes, there is the errant 1125 still in Gold.

Seems to be a lot of 16 plate and 68 plates not in use, but with the caveat that it's bus times so they may be used on other work or not tracking

Loads of Lilyhall buses are used on Sellafield related work which doesn’t track.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Loads of Lilyhall buses are used on Sellafield related work which doesn’t track.

That was what I was thinking might be the case - seemed a bit hooky to have so many "VOR" and some folks do treat BusTimes as gospel.

 

[mangad]

Seems more poor allocation than getting rid of livery. As unreliable as bustimes.org can be, 3 of the Lakes liveried X4/X5 branded E400MMCs are tracking on 30/300 today, the other 4 not tracking. 1 of the branded Scania E400s is on X4/X5 with another 2 on 30/300. Both Lakes livery Scania E300s on 30/300. 5 of the older/non-Lakes livery 60/61/13 plate Scania E400s and an 11 plate E300 have been tracking in service on X4/X5 instead with 10017 from Penrith outstation.

I was at Keswick bus station on Thursday morning and there were two X5s, both in the local livery. One I could understand. Two seemed ridiculous. For good measure there was a 555 in Local as well. There was a blue double decker parked up in the car park too although i don't know what that was on. Still, at least they managed to run two open top buses on the 78. That wasn't happening earlier in the year. My children would have been very disappointed if a closed top had turned up!

Only 1 of the 2 Buttermere branded Solo SRs is tracking out with steel blue 47729 (seems quite a regular).

I saw a blue Solo on two different days. Does look very dull when driving round in the 77/77A.

 

[Andyh82]

I was at Keswick bus station on Thursday morning and there were two X5s, both in the local livery. One I could understand. Two seemed ridiculous. For good measure there was a 555 in Local as well. There was a blue double decker parked up in the car park too although i don't know what that was on. Still, at least they managed to run two open top buses on the 78. That wasn't happening earlier in the year. My children would have been very disappointed if a closed top had turned up!


I saw a blue Solo on two different days. Does look very dull when driving round in the 77/77A.

There is an extra set of trips on the 555 on top of the usual hourly service that provides extra capacity at certain times of day. This is run from Morecambe depot, and it’s this one that you will have seen in local livery

If you look on BusTimes, it’s the trips marked DLK03

Vehicles – 555 – bustimes.org

bustimes.org

 

[mangad]

There is an extra set of trips on the 555 on top of the usual hourly service that provides extra capacity at certain times of day. This is run from Morecambe depot, and it’s this one that you will have seen in local livery

If you look on BusTimes, it’s the trips marked DLK03

Vehicles – 555 – bustimes.org

bustimes.org

Ah. that would explain that. Although I did look at today's DLK03 journeys and they were done by a Lakes Connection branded vehicle just to confuse things!

 

[markymark2000]

Still, at least they managed to run two open top buses on the 78

I did a journey on the 78 last week and bar a few pretty spots, it really did feel like a waste of an open top bus overall. There are many other route with a few scenic views which cope fine with normal closed top buses. And given the areas served too, it didn't feel like there could ever be enough passengers to justify a decker, and perhaps there would be a much better option of having 'open air' solos and running those slightly more frequently on the 77 services. But that's just my opinion and observations.

 

[mangad]

I did a journey on the 78 last week and bar a few pretty spots, it really did feel like a waste of an open top bus overall. There are many other route with a few scenic views which cope fine with normal closed top buses. And given the areas served too, it didn't feel like there could ever be enough passengers to justify a decker, and perhaps there would be a much better option of having 'open air' solos and running those slightly more frequently on the 77 services. But that's just my opinion and observations.

I have been on the 78 many times and have found it's loading to be very mixed.

Sometimes it will be fairly quiet. Other times really busy. I was on it on Thursday. Boarded at Grange for the trip back to Keswick. There were three groups, totalling twelve people. Then we got to the Borrowde Hotel where
15-20 people were waiting. By the time we got to Keswick the top deck was near full. It really depends on the weather, and the time of year. But the fact the 78 now runs open top all year around says Stagecoach feel it's worth it.

 

[47550]

My own experience of the 78 is that you have to concentrate and be aware of roadside vegetation when sat upstairs. It’s not to hard to imagine someone getting injured by say hanging their arm over the side.

 

[Megafuss]

What i'd love to see is one of the open toppers moved from the 78 and put on the line of route of the 555 between Keswick and Grasmere to supplement the main service. I know it wouldn't work hourly, but every 90 mins.

Maybe even hourly Seatoller-Borrowdale Hotel-Keswick-Grasmere, although the timings would be very tight with the two deckers. The route between Keswick and Grasmere is spectacular!

I'd also suggest on thier own roadside publicity that Stagecoach put the start and end date on the extra Summer trips. Last day of season and the uplift timetables are on display - with no end dates. Appreciate that it's always difficult when it comes to roadsides, but putting an expiry date on will help.

Side note, it was good to see a Stagecoach employee filling the leaflet racks at Workington Bus Station at 7am on a Sunday morning with Winter and West Cumbria books. Top marks for that.

 

[route101]

What i'd love to see is one of the open toppers moved from the 78 and put on the line of route of the 555 between Keswick and Grasmere to supplement the main service. I know it wouldn't work hourly, but every 90 mins.

Maybe even hourly Seatoller-Borrowdale Hotel-Keswick-Grasmere, although the timings would be very tight with the two deckers. The route between Keswick and Grasmere is spectacular!

I'd also suggest on thier own roadside publicity that Stagecoach put the start and end date on the extra Summer trips. Last day of season and the uplift timetables are on display - with no end dates. Appreciate that it's always difficult when it comes to roadsides, but putting an expiry date on will help.

Side note, it was good to see a Stagecoach employee filling the leaflet racks at Workington Bus Station at 7am on a Sunday morning with Winter and West Cumbria books. Top marks for that.

Timetables also on display at Carlisle Bus Station. Plenty of winter timetable books around too. The map is very helpful although not all routes shown in the map have times in the book.

 

[Ballyheigue]

I personally feel the 554 should have a vehicle upgrade, it needs vehicles that can cope with the timetable as caught one at the begining of October and although it only stopped twice, and left on time with a moderate load, it arrived 10 minutes late. The vehicle used was one of those ex Newcastle 07 plate E400s which seemed to cope as well as it could but needed either more time or a better engine.