Merseyrail 777 introduction

[baldyman26]

Certainly not a good advert for Teleste given the current state of the PIS

 

[Bletchleyite]

Certainly not a good advert for Teleste given the current state of the PIS

Is the Class 805/807 PIS also Teleste? 777s and 805/807s are the only place I've ever heard the announcement echo problem (where the different speakers are out of sync), and the displays themselves are of similar poor quality and design (one of the few things I dislike about the 805/807).

 

[Prime586]

Is the Class 805/807 PIS also Teleste? 777s and 805/807s are the only place I've ever heard the announcement echo problem (where the different speakers are out of sync), and the displays themselves are of similar poor quality and design (one of the few things I dislike about the 805/807).

The GWR and LNER Hitachi IETs use Televic's PIS. I believe the AWC and EMR IETs use AlmavivA/SADEL's PIS. Teleste did suplply the displays for the AWC Pendolino refurbishments though.

Teleste also supply the PIS for other Stadler UK products including the 555s and TfW's FLIRTs and tram trains.

 

[baldyman26]

So why are Merseyrail suffering so much then, if the tried and tested product is on other trains, why is Merseyrails so bad?

 

[jamesst]

So why are Merseyrail suffering so much then, if the tried and tested product is on other trains, why is Merseyrails so bad?

Pay for the cheapest equipment, get these results

 

[Bletchleyite]

Pay for the cheapest equipment, get these results

To be fair the Merseyrail system seems to be better than the atrociously bad implementation of TrainFX on Northern's 150s and 156s. It does seem it's largely about bad software, though. The echoing appears to be vehicles out of sync with one another which isn't an issue on units which aren't walk-through (on Avanti 80x it's within vehicles, which is very poor indeed!)

 

[Prime586]

To be fair the Merseyrail system seems to be better than the atrociously bad implementation of TrainFX on Northern's 150s and 156s. It does seem it's largely about bad software, though. The echoing appears to be vehicles out of sync with one another which isn't an issue on units which aren't walk-through (on Avanti 80x it's within vehicles, which is very poor indeed!)

Once you move to IP-based audio stream distribution, echoing becomes inevitable. IP by it's very nature is asynchronous, so if you have multiple audio output terminals on the same train (or in the same carriage, as you say is the case with the AWC IETs) then there is no way you can synchronise them all to play an IP audio stream in unison, without buffering and some form of external sync signal you can clock the start of playback to.

In telecoms infrastucure the GPS time signal is used to provide external sync between network nodes that don't have synchronous interconnects (such as an SDH optical link). You could use the onboard GPS receiver in a train to generate a sync signal between all the carriages, but that would require either a GPS receiver per carriage or wiring between tha carriages and if you are going to do that you may as well go back to using a single audio output terminal and a PA system like Ripper (that used the lighting wiring and RCH jumpers to carry the audio through the train).

 

[RacsoMoquette]

Am I correct that the Merseyrail Class 777s were built at a facility with known quality control issues? As the contrast in quality between the Class 777s and other UK Stadler products is quite noticeable. For instance the Class 555 PIS system seems to be of a better quality and far less crude looking than that of a Class 777, even if the supplier Teleste is the same.

What PIS system supplier does CAF use for the DLR B23 Stock? Judging by appearance, the housings and side facing format looks very similar to examples on a Class 555 and to a lesser extent a Class 777.

 

[WirralLine]

Am I correct that the Merseyrail Class 777s were built at a facility with known quality control issues? As the contrast in quality between the Class 777s and other UK Stadler products is quite noticeable. For instance the Class 555 PIS system seems to be of a better quality and far less crude looking than that of a Class 777, even if the supplier Teleste is the same.

The 777 production was I believe split between 2 sites. Half in Switzerland and half in Poland. If i remember rightly it was mentioned half of the problems with introducing 8 car running originally was down to variations between the Swiss and Polish built units meaning they wouldn't talk to eachother properly.

 

[Prime586]

Am I correct that the Merseyrail Class 777s were built at a facility with known quality control issues? As the contrast in quality between the Class 777s and other UK Stadler products is quite noticeable. For instance the Class 555 PIS system seems to be of a better quality and far less crude looking than that of a Class 777, even if the supplier Teleste is the same.

What PIS system supplier does CAF use for the DLR B23 Stock? Judging by appearance, the housings and side facing format looks very similar to examples on a Class 555 and to a lesser extent a Class 777.

The DLR B23 stock does indeed use Teleste's PIS.

The even numbered 777 units (which includes all the 777/1s) and first two odd numbered units were assembled in Altenrhein, Switzerland. The odd numbered units from 777005 onwards were assembled in Siedice, Poland.

The 555s were assembled in St Margrethen, Switzerland, but use many of the same internal compinents as the 777s (such as the door and step modules and thier controllers, HVAC system, train control system and so on) The underlying hardware of the PIS will be the same. It's possible that Merseytravel's software requirements are pushing the hardware to the edge of (and possibly beyond) what it can deliver.

The 777 production was I believe split between 2 sites. Half in Switzerland and half in Poland. If i remember rightly it was mentioned half of the problems with introducing 8 car running originally was down to variations between the Swiss and Polish built units meaning they wouldn't talk to eachother properly.

I believe the multiple working issues extended deeper than just the two assembly facilities using different build standards - units built at the same facility were not initially capable of working in multiple either.

 

[RacsoMoquette]

What PIS system provider did CAF use for its Class 19X Civity fleets? I my opinion the TV style displays seem quite clear and visible. Are the any known issues with them?

 

[Prime586]

What PIS system provider did CAF use for its Class 19X Civity fleets? I my opinion the TV style displays seem quite clear and visible. Are the any known issues with them?

I believe the 19xs use Televic's PIS. I don't know if there are any issues with it curently, though when they enetered service the 195s suffered from a lot of issues.

A correction to one of my previous posts on the subject- Stadler's TfW units use Teleste's PA and CCTV systems and Televic's PIS (TfW presumably wanted commonality with the 197s)

 

[MR-507508]

Does anyone know what these paths are for, in the early hours of Monday morning, at Chester - perhaps 8 Car testing on the Chester line?

 

[Pacef8]

There has been a weird tree pruning jcb contraption cutting and knocking on the line in the night or maybe lift stuff for rock ferry being moved .

 

[karlbbb]

The switch "back" of Hunts Cross to Southport is still in RTT as Monday 5th Jan 2026 - are we taking bets on it being pushed back again before we get there?

 

[MR-507508]

The switch "back" of Hunts Cross to Southport is still in RTT as Monday 5th Jan 2026 - are we taking bets on it being pushed back again before we get there?

I heard an 8 Car passenger service accidently stopped at Cressington station Sunday evening following the match and was delayed by a further 10 mins. Caused several delays into the evening on the Ormskirk line.

 

[Pacef8]

Slipping into the local radio news was a item of ghost trains to be run over the winter period to reduce overnight icing . Something i recall train managers did with the 507/8s

 

[jamesst]

Slipping into the local radio news was a item of ghost trains to be run over the winter period to reduce overnight icing . Something i recall train managers did with the 507/8s

Its a driver driving empty stock round overnight, happens every year subject to staff availability and overnight possessions. Nothing new.

 

[Ellis101]

The switch "back" of Hunts Cross to Southport is still in RTT as Monday 5th Jan 2026 - are we taking bets on it being pushed back again before we get there?

It's especially dreadful of a night when there is a match on for either Liverpool or Everton as it means Hunts Cross services are every 30 minutes instead of 15 minutes which I'd much rather spend 15 in the cold than 30.

 

[jamesst]

The switch "back" of Hunts Cross to Southport is still in RTT as Monday 5th Jan 2026 - are we taking bets on it being pushed back again before we get there?

The line will be closing soon for Baltic station to be built so dont count on it.

 

[Bevan Price]

To be fair the Merseyrail system seems to be better than the atrociously bad implementation of TrainFX on Northern's 150s and 156s. It does seem it's largely about bad software, though. The echoing appears to be vehicles out of sync with one another which isn't an issue on units which aren't walk-through (on Avanti 80x it's within vehicles, which is very poor indeed!)

Are they really out of sync, or is it a "velocity of sound" effect?
Unless you are equidistant from all the speakers you can hear, then the sound will take different times to reach you from each speaker....

 

[karlbbb]

The line will be closing soon for Baltic station to be built so dont count on it.

Is there a rough timeline you can share on this? I assume this will have to be a complete closure from Central to Hunts Cross?

Are they really out of sync, or is it a "velocity of sound" effect?
Unless you are equidistant from all the speakers you can hear, then the sound will take different times to reach you from each speaker....

Very much out of sync. I've been stood at a door and the speakers at the opposing door were slightly behind, though to be fair I haven't heard it happen on any unit for a little while.

 

[jamesst]

Is there a rough timeline you can share on this? I assume this will have to be a complete closure from Central to Hunts Cross?

Very much out of sync. I've been stood at a door and the speakers at the opposing door were slightly behind, though to be fair I haven't heard it happen on any unit for a little while.

Ive yet to hear final dates im afraid but it should be next year. Itll be a blockade between Liverpool Central and Hunts Cross and will be for quite a substantial time.

 

[RichardAsh1981]

I'm not sure if the PIS was being an optimist or a pessimist here - it was certainly wrong because the service stopped at Eastham Rake and Bromborough. Still gives you a shock when you look at the screen as there were no announcements.
Photo shows the journey information (line map) screen on a 777. Stops between Hooton and Birkenhead Central are skipped. The expected time at all the remaining stops (Hooton and Birkenhead Central to Liverpool Central) is the same, 15:06!

 

[jamesst]

I'm not sure if the PIS was being an optimist or a pessimist here - it was certainly wrong because the service stopped at Eastham Rake and Bromborough. Still gives you a shock when you look at the screen as there were no announcements. View attachment 191593
Photo shows the journey information (line map) screen on a 777. Stops between Hooton and Birkenhead Central are skipped. The expected time at all the remaining stops (Hooton and Birkenhead Central to Liverpool Central) is the same, 15:06!

The PIS is well and truly screwed on the Chester line at the moment after a recent update which actually wiped most of the codes for it.

 

[RichardAsh1981]

The PIS is well and truly screwed on the Chester line at the moment after a recent update which actually wiped most of the codes for it.

I assumed it was the emergency timetable, because some services seemed to be reporting themselves as late vs. the old times. None of it re-assuring when you need to get off at Capenhurst (this year's emergency timetable retains skipping Capenhurst, unlike last year's).

 

[Northerngirl]

004 has disappeared from its siding at Kirkdale somtime over the weekend, it was looking rather pulled apart, maybe finally bringing it back?

 

[jamesst]

I assumed it was the emergency timetable, because some services seemed to be reporting themselves as late vs. the old times. None of it re-assuring when you need to get off at Capenhurst (this year's emergency timetable retains skipping Capenhurst, unlike last year's).

Theyve actually maintained the skip stopping at Capenhurst for the last few years during the autumn timetable apparently to maintain consistency.

 

[Sam 76]

004 has disappeared from its siding at Kirkdale somtime over the weekend, it was looking rather pulled apart, maybe finally bringing it back?

010 has also returned to service in the last couple of weeks having been sat in Birkenhead with covers over its headlights. Perhaps the spare parts shortage is fixing itself ?

 

[danbarjon]

On Apple Maps it has the Wirral Line between Kirkby and Headbolt Lane, maybe a glitch but if so quite a bizarre one.