Marking of Credit Card sized tickets

[John R]

Returning from Paddington to Nailsea this afternoon the gateline was open at Paddington so nobody was putting tickets through it.

The onboard check shortly after departure, consisted of two people, one of whom appeared to be being trained, but I can't be sure. When our tickets were checked the experienced one inspected our railcards thoroughly, scanning my wife's e-railcard, and also inspected our tickets closely. But didn't mark our tickets, despite having a "stamper" (sorry - don't know the technical term).

My immediate thought was "why not?". It leaves the tickets potentially open to fraudulent reuse (or possibly delay repay fraud by "choosing" a train to travel on), and the process of marking it would take barely a second given the ticket was in their hand.

(The train wasn't that busy by the way, so they weren't under any time pressure.)

 

[Watershed]

Paper credit card sized tickets (CCST) has become increasingly rare to see given how many people now use PAYG (where available) or eTickets.

In that context, it's barely worth their while taking the time to mark/stamp CCSTs in the way it used to be.

 

[saismee]

I believe marking of tickets is also no longer mandated at some TOCs due to the risk of repetitive strain injury, or so I've been told. Supposedly that's the reason my TOC doesn't issue marker pens.

 

[island]

having a "stamper" (sorry - don't know the technical term)

A ticket stamper is the technical term, manufactured by ZIFA Zifferndruck of Germany. They cost several hundred pounds each. Because of this and the sharply reducing number of paper tickets in use, it would not surprise me if TOCs have stopped ordering new ones and the existing ones will just not be replaced when they break.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I was using the return portion of a period return recently and broke my journey at East Croydon to meet up for lunch with an ex-colleague.
When I went back to the station to resume my journey, the ticket didn’t open the barriers and an older chap on the gateline asked me for my railcard. As I was opening the National Rail app, he marked 25/10 in large letters across the ticket.
So it does still happen.

 

[MrJeeves]

I was using the return portion of a period return recently and broke my journey at East Croydon to meet up for lunch with an ex-colleague.
When I went back to the station to resume my journey, the ticket didn’t open the barriers and an older chap on the gateline asked me for my railcard. As I was opening the National Rail app, he marked 25/10 in large letters across the ticket.
So it does still happen.

If only they added "ECR" to it as well, then it might actually be useful!

 

[Starmill]

or possibly delay repay fraud by "choosing" a train to travel on

It was very, very rare for the marking on the ticket to be legible in a way that actually identified the train on which it was stamped. They were usually wrong or smudged. Most of the time, even the date was hard to read.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I think a less seasoned rail traveller thinking of re-using the ticket might well be deterred by a date writ large on the front, though

 

[John R]

I think a less seasoned rail traveller thinking of re-using the ticket might well be deterred by a date writ large on the front, though

Agree - I would have thought any marking would discourage reuse.

Thanks to those above who have responded giving an explanation as to why the industry is less concerned these days at marking a CCST.

 

[stadler]

I have not seen a Zifa stamper for years. The last time i saw a guard or ticket inspector that had a Zifa stamper was well over ten years ago. I doubt they buy new ones any more. It is probably just some of the longer serving guards and ticket inspectors who still have them.

 

[sot]

The date scribbler or ticket ripper was the bane of my life. I often kept my ticket due to its acceptance for a possible future journey.

I used to purchase religiously a Longton ticket due to its additional validity via the MML to London if required, along with an unusual routeing anomaly involving Crewe. The return half was then very useful to travel between my namesake and Longton as I would usually stop short at my namesake.

On many a late evening the older staff would rip my ticket or scribble it with dates but no description of stopping short. At the time the ticket would not allow exit at Stoke, I assume it still doesn't like one of my favourite tickets in the area.

 

[stadler]

It is worth pointing out that almost all tickets (except advance tickets) allow you to break your journey as many times as you wish along the route. Some people may choose to stop off a few times along the way. So marking your ticket does not exactly prove anything as you would still be entitled to alight from the train that your ticket was marked on and break your journey and take a later one. So if anything the mark on the ticket could even cause confusion (or even arguments) if you come across jobsworth or poorly trained staff.

 

[saismee]

Any single-use tickets with multiple days of validity are getting ripped in half by me every single time. "I need it for a receipt" is a common excuse on period return tickets... they get very fussy when I ask for the ticket to write the date on it!

For context, this is for people exiting my gateline with CCST period return tickets. It is getting ever more common for me to see people show period returns and refuse to put them through the barriers. No, being too lazy to take it out of your plastic sleeve is not good enough.

Of course, I understand the concept of BoJ across multiple days, but it's so niche that I don't think I've seen someone pass my gateline to break their journey on a period return. One person has, but it was actually a regular that I've spotted reusing a period return, so it was challenged and marked.

And I'll finish this post with a fun story. One time I've seen someone argue with gateline staff A after refusing to put a period return ticket in the barrier because it would "keep it and I want to reuse it". Refused to accept that it was single use (it was blatantly intentional fare evasion, not ignorance), and demanded someone else. Gateline staff B comes over and asked to have her ticket. He rips it in half right in front of her and opens the gate!

 

[MrJeeves]

Any single-use tickets with multiple days of validity are getting ripped in half by me every single time. "I need it for a receipt" is a common excuse on period return tickets... they get very fussy when I ask for the ticket to write the date on it!

Well which is it? You rip it in half, or you write the date on it?

 

[saismee]

Well which is it? You rip it in half, or you write the date on it?

Can't rip it in half if they have a valid reason to keep it, so ripped if discarded, marked if kept as a receipt.

 

[sot]

That was the problem, I wished to keep the tickets as they had validity to the next station, at the time approx £4-5 fare.

The added validity was there in case I wished to use the last little bit of validity on return half of a prior journey with a new ticket.

Outbound Ticket valid towards WCML and towards MML from origin.

Therefore Return valid from the WCML or MML.to the origin station.

I kept where possible the return halves such that I could start from the WCML station to get to the origin of another ticket and use the MML route.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Oct 2025 ==

Note, it was valid to start short and start on the WCML station and travel via WCML, but to start there to pass through the origin of a new ticket required this £5 single to be purchased, so I would keep all the tickets I could with that bit of validity on them from the finishing short/BoJ.

I would always have one on hand to initiate this alternative route as and when required

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Oct 2025 ==

Probably is the type of activity the railway are wishing to stop occuring, even though a passenger is doing nothing wrong and trying to keep their options open as much as possible at the cheapest possible price.

 

[boiledbeans2]

That was the problem, I wished to keep the tickets as they had validity to the next station, at the time approx £4-5 fare.
[...]

I think mentioning "Break of Journey" to the gateline staff/ticket inspector would make them more relaxed. I have used that term many times, breaking along unusual routes.
I don't think "normals" would know the term "Break of Journey".

 

[sot]

This was stated to the individual who became enraged when I said the ticked was still valid. Was given an earful that it was now used.had a cab waiting so I very clearly said not between here and Longton it hasn't and walked away.

I did raise a claim to the TOC managing the station and seemingly I don't recall having as much bother afterwards but that may have coincided with different staff or me using other tickets.

 

[Fokx]

I have not seen a Zifa stamper for years. The last time i saw a guard or ticket inspector that had a Zifa stamper was well over ten years ago. I doubt they buy new ones any more. It is probably just some of the longer serving guards and ticket inspectors who still have them.

They are still made but they're also horrendously expensive to acquire new and can only be purchased in bulk from the supplier.

Most TOC's have simply moved away from them due to the cost outweighing the benefit of their use, particularly with the changes to ticket technology moving towards Aztec codes and away from magstripe CCST.

 

[styles]

I believe marking of tickets is also no longer mandated at some TOCs due to the risk of repetitive strain injury, or so I've been told. Supposedly that's the reason my TOC doesn't issue marker pens.

That sounds like some canteen myth to me.

RSI from stamping the occasional CCST sounds very unlikely.

 

[fandroid]

I remember Barry Doe getting excited about hanging onto out-boundary day Travelcards after arriving back at the starting station. That was if another similar return journey was planned for later on the same day. The idea being that the Zones 1-6 validity did not expire until the end of the day.

Quite a niche situation, which possibly encouraged people to sell on their CCST tickets to lurkers outside the station

 

[Titfield]

I remember Barry Doe getting excited about hanging onto out-boundary day Travelcards after arriving back at the starting station. That was if another similar return journey was planned for later on the same day. The idea being that the Zones 1-6 validity did not expire until the end of the day.

Quite a niche situation, which possibly encouraged people to sell on their CCST tickets to lurkers outside the station

When getting back to Blackhorse Road at 7pm I was often approached by "lurkers" asking "have you finished with your ticket mate".

Some passengers would just leave their day travelcards on the window sill or by the ticket machines for others to use.

 

[andy33gmail]

A ticket stamper is the technical term, manufactured by ZIFA Zifferndruck of Germany. They cost several hundred pounds each.

Excuse my naivety… why can’t they just use a hole punch?

 

[styles]

Excuse my naivety… why can’t they just use a hole punch?

Don't you dare question the procurement decisions of taxpayer-subsidised rail operators! We will have none of this common sense nonsense here.

But seriously, the only reason to use another puncher other than a £2 hole puncher from TG Jones, is the ability to print a date and/or time at the same time. The benefit of printing the date and/or time is that it allows tickets to be marked in such a way that the travel history is logged. Let's say I have a ticket from Chester to Nottingham, requiring changes at Crewe and Derby. If we just use a hole punch, what does a single hole punch represent? Whereas with a timestamp, it's clocked that I've boarded the 0920 service from Crewe to Derby. Not important for advance fares, or the single day restricted outward tickets really, but quite a big difference on returns.

 

[aar0]

Just had one on a GWR IET, guard stamped my ticket and then asked to “clip” my Seatfrog upgrade!

I have not seen a Zifa stamper for years. The last time i saw a guard or ticket inspector that had a Zifa stamper was well over ten years ago. I doubt they buy new ones any more. It is probably just some of the longer serving guards and ticket inspectors who still have them.

 

[sot]

Just had one on a GWR IET, guard stamped my ticket and then asked to “clip” my Seatfrog upgrade!

Very thorough indeed.

 

[londonbridge]

As mentioned in previous threads, when I go to Mums for a visit I can usually save a few bob by using a Brighton-Southampton Central ‘not via London’ return to travel from East Croydon to Eastleigh. On the way back the ticket usually opens the barrier at East Croydon, if it doesn’t I show it to gateline staff and say ‘break of journey’ and they’ll usually open the gate. I’ve only been questioned once when he looked at it and said “Southampton to Brighton? Where have you come from”? I replied “Clapham, I’m breaking my journey”. “Good answer”, he said, in a sarcastic tone of voice, as he opened the gate.

 

[Tetragon213]

I believe marking of tickets is also no longer mandated at some TOCs due to the risk of repetitive strain injury, or so I've been told. Supposedly that's the reason my TOC doesn't issue marker pens.

I wonder if the cost of supplying and replacing marker pens is greater than the actual fare recovery from having TIs mark tickets after use? Would not surprise me if that turned out to be the case.

I definitely remember ticket clippers on HOPS cost a pretty penny each time, and it seems that dropping them down platforms was not an uncommon event.

 

[Krokodil]

I think a less seasoned rail traveller thinking of re-using the ticket might well be deterred by a date writ large on the front, though

We've got a demographic here who are quite prolific. I do enjoy biroing the date on the ticket as large as possible and digging in deep to prevent them washing the ink off.

Before anyone on here spits feathers, yes they were going from the origin of the ticket to its destination. It's pretty blatant on the occasions when they present the return half of a ticket that was only bought five minutes ago. I do enjoy seeing their faces fall when I ask them to remove it from the wallet.

 

[dodecahedron67]

Somebody presents me a period return, ask them if they're going all the way to their destination tonight.
If yes, then mark with date in bright pink biro.
If no, mark to wherever they're going on my train (CRS code) with the date in bright pink biro!

Dead simple and the looks of disgust when one gets marked is really funny...