RealTimeTrains website

[HST125Scorton]

I'm very happy with RTT+, quite a lot of work in the background has gone on. I remember using RTT for the first time when it came out. I'm in need of timetable data back to January 2020 to end of March 2020 would this become available at some point? I'll presume under a bolt on subscription which I'd happily pay for.

 

[berneyarms]

Yes, we're in the process of selecting a Merchant of Record service to process customers outside GB. The legal risks with processing it ourselves and remitting VAT to incorrect authorities, etc, is just too high for us to take the risk ourselves.

I would expect that we can support that by the end of next month.

Great stuff - I’ll look forward to it!

 

[_toommm_]

I'm very happy with RTT+, quite a lot of work in the background has gone on. I remember using RTT for the first time when it came out. I'm in need of timetable data back to January 2020 to end of March 2020 would this become available at some point? I'll presume under a bolt on subscription which I'd happily pay for.

Literally three posts back:

We have now formally confirmed that 5 years is the rolling limit that we will be supporting in the base RTT+ subscription. We will be rolling out a further bolt-on subscription to take that back to the origin of RTT (or more, it's predecessors, Rail Staging & Timetables). Real-time data will not be completely available across that entire period but for those instances we will infill with a timetable. The start date will likely be 1st January 2012 - so it should also contain the Olympics & Paralympics 2012 timetables which contained highlights like CrossCountry to Weymouth...

We've also started a GitHub organisation and will be opening up various things there, our first repository is our base reference data: https://github.com/realtimetrains/nr-reference-data

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Just signed up and turned a 10 minute task into a 2 minute task (looking through 331101 and 331107's diagrams to see when they're in Greater Manchester to see if I can tick them off while I'm out today), and been able to find out some very old allocations.
Does anyone know how far back allocations go, mostly for Northern but any other TOCs in Manchester would be useful to know, I only started tagging all my photos a couple years ago so there's quite a bit of unknown data.

 

[mathstrains19]

Looking back through RTT's news posts, Know Your Train was introduced on the following dates for each TOC, which I believe should be when allocations go back to:
Northern - 21/10/2020
Cross Country - 23/10/2020
Avanti - 11/03/2021
TPE - 08/05/2021
EMR - 20/12/2021

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Looking back through RTT's news posts, Know Your Train was introduced on the following dates for each TOC, which I believe should be when allocations go back to:
Northern - 21/10/2020
Cross Country - 23/10/2020
Avanti - 11/03/2021
TPE - 08/05/2021
EMR - 20/12/2021

Thank you, I forgot the news feed existed.
Looks like it goes back to almost exactly 5 years ago!

I keep hitting download instead of search, I'll get used to it eventually.

 

[Peter749]

I'm wondering how RTT filters things?

I looked for a special at Doncaster today 25/10/25 but it says the TOC Code, YG, is invalid


So I had to look again just at STP workings - of which there are a lot

So now if finds the train I'm after. 1Z50 toc code YG

What am I doing wrong?

Peter

 

[chrisjo]

What am I doing wrong?

Nothing. I've seen this error reported in this thread at least once before, for example:

A question if I may, RTT shows Hanson & Hall as having a TOC code of YG, however if you enter that for a search it comes up as not vaild, a minor glitch on the site or with me?

Thanks

Needs to be reported through the official channel. mailto:hello@realtimetrains.com

 

[Jamesrob637]

Which TOCs still do not use RTT, then? They're getting fewer and further between now.

 

[skyhigh]

Which TOCs still do not use RTT, then? They're getting fewer and further between now.

What do you mean by "do not use RTT"?

 

[MrJeeves]

Which TOCs still do not use RTT, then? They're getting fewer and further between now.

It's not about "using RTT", but whether they use the system that is now open data for anyone to use.

That's all passenger TOCs, except Eurostar and London Overground.

(And the likes of LUL, Tyne & Wear, Supertram are also excluded.)

 

[DaventryRabbit]

I've tried to Subscribe but it's telling me it can't process as it deems me to be resident outside the UK.
It goes on to say they are working on this issue and all will be up and running when complete.

 

[Tom]

I've tried to Subscribe but it's telling me it can't process as it deems me to be resident outside the UK.
It goes on to say they are working on this issue and all will be up and running when complete.

If you were using a VPN or public WiFi that shows itself to be outside the UK when you go to the subscriptions page then it will be triggered.

This is all due to legal and accounting reasons around VAT and sales tax.

If it’s wrong, contact support.

 

[DaventryRabbit]

If you were using a VPN or public WiFi that shows itself to be outside the UK when you go to the subscriptions page then it will be triggered.

This is all due to legal and accounting reasons around VAT and sales tax.

If it’s wrong, contact support.

Ak ok yes was on wifi
Cheers, will try again tomorrow

 

[Tom]

You’ll still need to contact support to unlock your account as it’s one strike and out due to the evidence requirements.

 

[tfw756rider]

Which TOCs still do not use RTT, then? They're getting fewer and further between now.

I'm assuming that you mean "that don't participate in Know Your Train" rather than "that don't use Realtime Trains".

If so, the Train Operating Companies that don't participate in Know Your Train are:

No allocations

Arriva Rail London (London Overground)
Eurostar

Allocations shown (I think these are pretty recent)

Govia Thameslink Railway (Thameslink, Great Northern, Southern and Gatwick Express)
Merseyrail
Southeastern

==============================================================

The Train Operating Companies that do participate in Know Your Train are:

Avanti West Coast
c2c
Caledonian Sleeper
Chiltern Railways
CrossCountry
East Midlands Railway
Elizabeth line (that must be pretty recent!)
Grand Central
Great Western Railway
Greater Anglia
Heathrow Express
Hull Trains
Lumo
London North Eastern Railway
Northern
ScotRail
South Western Railway and Island Line*
TransPennine Express
Transport for Wales**
West Midlands Trains (West Midlands Railway and London Northwestern Railway)***

*The 28 Class 458/4s are still "Allocations only" for some reason
**The 24 Class 756s are still "Allocations only" for some reason, 11 months after entering service
***The 3 Class 150s are still "Allocations only" for some reason

 

[liamf656]

*The 28 Class 458/4s are still "Allocations only" for some reason
**The 24 Class 756s are still "Allocations only" for some reason, 11 months after entering service
***The 3 Class 150s are still "Allocations only" for some reason

Doesn't matter how many times you mention it in this forum, it won't make them work any quicker at providing drawings. They've been understandably busy

 

[Class15]

Doesn't matter how many times you mention it in this forum, it won't make them work any quicker at providing drawings. They've been understandably busy

Quite, and to be honest the drawings are just a nice-to-have extra rather than being essential. Enthusiasts will know what a 756 looks like, and ’normals’ probably won’t know either way!

 

[50002Superb]

A probably more pertinent addendum would have been reference to TfW AT units.

 

[HChip]

I think RTT may have got this one abit wrong..

 

[MerlinRail 804]

I think RTT may have got this one abit wrong..

set swap. RTT doing exactly what it's told lol

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I think RTT may have got this one abit wrong..

It was only a matter of time until it happened to a 745 too.
Looks like it's 745006 and 745106, and it's been the case all day.
I wonder if it was just a typo this morning, quickly fixed but the duplication happened.

 

[HST125Scorton]

Is there a reason why the allocations for TfW Crewe-Shrewsbury services don't show anything allocated but RTT says how many coaches eg 2. Could this be fixable?

Examples:

Realtime Trains | 2K46 0819 Shrewsbury to Crewe | 18/10/2025

Real-time train running information for 2K46 0819 departure from Shrewsbury to Crewe on 18/10/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Forms

Realtime Trains | 2J48 0919 Crewe to Shrewsbury | 18/10/2025

Real-time train running information for 2J48 0919 departure from Crewe to Shrewsbury on 18/10/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[pdeaves]

Here's an interesting one that crops up from time to time, per screenshot.

Location: Didcot; show trains that call subsequently at Swindon (i.e., I want westbound). Amongst the Swindon, Bristol, Wales services is an odd one to Paddington. It's not a problem but it does sometimes cause some momentary confusion!

 

[BillStampy]

Is there a reason why the allocations for TfW Crewe-Shrewsbury services don't show anything allocated but RTT says how many coaches eg 2. Could this be fixable?

Examples:

Realtime Trains | 2K46 0819 Shrewsbury to Crewe | 18/10/2025

Real-time train running information for 2K46 0819 departure from Shrewsbury to Crewe on 18/10/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Forms

Realtime Trains | 2J48 0919 Crewe to Shrewsbury | 18/10/2025

Real-time train running information for 2J48 0919 departure from Crewe to Shrewsbury on 18/10/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

These are the AT 153 sets and Tom has explained that their unit numbers basically do not exist as part of the AT allocations. So you could in theory get the AT number displayed but not the individual unit numbers (i.e. 153353, 153528...) As explained in post #2760, the last post on page 92 of this thread.

 

[AJDesiro]

These are the AT 153 sets and Tom has explained that their unit numbers basically do not exist as part of the AT allocations. So you could in theory get the AT number displayed but not the individual unit numbers (i.e. 153353, 153528...) As explained in post #2760, the last post on page 92 of this thread.

I don't know much about the inner workings of Know Your Train, for all I know it could use a completely different feed for the TOCs that were added before the public release of the Gemini allocations data feed. But I do know that the Gemini feed does provide the unit numbers for the TfW active travel sets, you can see an extract of the data below for set AT04:

<ResourceGroup>
    <ResourceGroupId>AT04</ResourceGroupId>
    <TypeOfResource>S</TypeOfResource>
    <FleetId>153/5</FleetId>
    <ResourceGroupStatus>N</ResourceGroupStatus>
    <EndOfDayMiles>39736</EndOfDayMiles>
    <Preassignment/>
    <Vehicle>
        <VehicleId>57352</VehicleId>
        <TypeOfVehicle>C</TypeOfVehicle>
        <ResourcePosition>1</ResourcePosition>
        <PlannedResourceGroup>153552</PlannedResourceGroup>
        <SpecificType>DX2110A</SpecificType>
        <Length>
            <Value>23208</Value>
            <Measure>mm</Measure>
        </Length>
        <Weight>43</Weight>
        <Livery>NP</Livery>
        <Decor>ZZ</Decor>
        <SpecialCharacteristics>G</SpecialCharacteristics>
        <NumberOfSeats>42</NumberOfSeats>
        <VehicleStatus>N</VehicleStatus>
        <RegisteredStatus>C</RegisteredStatus>
        <Cabs>2</Cabs>
        <DateEnteredService>1987-07-24</DateEnteredService>
        <DateRegistered>2024-12-02</DateRegistered>
        <RegisteredCategory>J</RegisteredCategory>
        <TrainBrakeType>E</TrainBrakeType>
        <MaximumSpeed>75</MaximumSpeed>
    </Vehicle>
    <Vehicle>
        <VehicleId>57382</VehicleId>
        <TypeOfVehicle>C</TypeOfVehicle>
        <ResourcePosition>2</ResourcePosition>
        <PlannedResourceGroup>153382</PlannedResourceGroup>
        <SpecificType>DX2040A</SpecificType>
        <Length>
            <Value>23208</Value>
            <Measure>mm</Measure>
        </Length>
        <Weight>42</Weight>
        <Livery>GW</Livery>
        <Decor>ZZ</Decor>
        <SpecialCharacteristics>GWY</SpecialCharacteristics>
        <NumberOfSeats>72</NumberOfSeats>
        <VehicleStatus>N</VehicleStatus>
        <RegisteredStatus>C</RegisteredStatus>
        <Cabs>2</Cabs>
        <DateEnteredService>1988-05-12</DateEnteredService>
        <DateRegistered>2024-12-02</DateRegistered>
        <RegisteredCategory>J</RegisteredCategory>
        <TrainBrakeType>E</TrainBrakeType>
        <MaximumSpeed>75</MaximumSpeed>
    </Vehicle>
</ResourceGroup>

You can see that within each "Vehicle", the "PlannedResourceGroup" is stated as one of the 153s comprising that formation.

So the data is available, but I again must reiterate that it's dependent on how the TOCs that were added to KYT before WebGemini was made public are integrated with RTT. In addition, the way RTT processes the allocation messages may well involve some significant changes to accomodate this, which would definitely raise questions as to the priority of implementing it when RTT is maintained by a small team.

 

[takno]

I don't know much about the inner workings of Know Your Train, for all I know it could use a completely different feed for the TOCs that were added before the public release of the Gemini allocations data feed. But I do know that the Gemini feed does provide the unit numbers for the TfW active travel sets, you can see an extract of the data below for set AT04:

You can see that within each "Vehicle", the "PlannedResourceGroup" is stated as one of the 153s comprising that formation.

So the data is available, but I again must reiterate that it's dependent on how the TOCs that were added to KYT before WebGemini was made public are integrated with RTT. In addition, the way RTT processes the allocation messages may well involve some significant changes to accomodate this, which would definitely raise questions as to the priority of implementing it when RTT is maintained by a small team.

The other point which has been made is that the detailed data in both Gemini and RTT's direct feed is not always accurate, so it's possible that this is the 153s which were in that formation at one point, but have now been swapped around

 

[Tom]

I don't know much about the inner workings of Know Your Train, for all I know it could use a completely different feed for the TOCs that were added before the public release of the Gemini allocations data feed. But I do know that the Gemini feed does provide the unit numbers for the TfW active travel sets, you can see an extract of the data below for set AT04:

We do use the Gemini feed for some operators.

You can see that within each "Vehicle", the "PlannedResourceGroup" is stated as one of the 153s comprising that formation.

Based on past experience of using the Gemini feed for various projects, the PlannedResourceGroup field is not one I particularly trust. Certainly not enough to do anything here. In fact I trust very little in the <Vehicle> blocks other than VehicleId. ResourcePosition is quite frequently complete and utter nonsense which is the only other field we do use from time toe time.

So the data is available, but I again must reiterate that it's dependent on how the TOCs that were added to KYT before WebGemini was made public are integrated with RTT. In addition, the way RTT processes the allocation messages may well involve some significant changes to accomodate this, which would definitely raise questions as to the priority of implementing it when RTT is maintained by a small team.

We do reformat input messages a lot from various systems to create a normalised view of the world.

But the core thing here is that a set is formed of vehicles, not units. When looking at some other systems that I have access to, the 153 numbers in those AT sets are just missing now. It may well be that the vehicles that comprise those sets still have some reference back to their original 153 numbers but I don't think that those numbers are actually trustworthy now.

The Gemini data release has been great - don't get me wrong - but there are so many gotchas in that feed that we've managed to mostly hide from users and/or fix upstream.

 

[AJDesiro]

We do use the Gemini feed for some operators.


Based on past experience of using the Gemini feed for various projects, the PlannedResourceGroup field is not one I particularly trust. Certainly not enough to do anything here. In fact I trust very little in the <Vehicle> blocks other than VehicleId. ResourcePosition is quite frequently complete and utter nonsense which is the only other field we do use from time toe time.


We do reformat input messages a lot from various systems to create a normalised view of the world.

But the core thing here is that a set is formed of vehicles, not units. When looking at some other systems that I have access to, the 153 numbers in those AT sets are just missing now. It may well be that the vehicles that comprise those sets still have some reference back to their original 153 numbers but I don't think that those numbers are actually trustworthy now.

The Gemini data release has been great - don't get me wrong - but there are so many gotchas in that feed that we've managed to mostly hide from users and/or fix upstream.

Thanks for the detailed explanation, that makes sense. I definitely agree that the feed has a lot of “gotcha”s from my own experience trying to implement it, so it doesn’t surprise me that you don’t trust the vehicle data!

 

[tfw756rider]

Doesn't matter how many times you mention it in this forum, it won't make them work any quicker at providing drawings. They've been understandably busy

I understand, but hopefully not too much longer I still haven't sent the email I was asked to send to be fair.

Quite, and to be honest the drawings are just a nice-to-have extra rather than being essential. Enthusiasts will know what a 756 looks like, and ’normals’ probably won’t know either way!

Yes, but it's not just about what a 756 (or a 458/4 or 150137/139/141) look/s like, there's also the Know Your Train aspect of train features