LUL battery locos on the mainline

[sad1e]

I've heard from Many sources and know that some of the LUL battery locos have mainline TOPS numbers , but have they ever run on the mainline and how do they interface with mainline signalling as I assume they only have Tripcocks

I've never seen any photos or evidence of them doing so but I assume a few must have had as it would be silly to register a loco on TOPS without it being able to run on NR metals.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I've heard from Many sources and know that some of the LUL battery locos have mainline TOPS numbers , but have they ever run on the mainline and how do they interface with mainline signalling as I assume they only have Tripcocks

I've never seen any photos or evidence of them doing so but I assume a few must have had as it would be silly to register a loco on TOPS without it being able to run on NR metals.

They've certainly been used between East Putney and Wimbledon; isn't that technically "main line"?


Edited for typo; once again I only spotted it after it had been immortalised in a quote!!!

 

[DanNCL]

Didn't they used to drag 1938 stock from the Northern City Line at Drayton Park to the rest of the LU network via Finsbury Park, the ECML to Kings Cross York Road and then onto the connection between the widened lines and the main LU network at Farringdon?

 

[Dstock7080]

They've certain been used between East Putney and Wimbledon; isn't that technically "main line"?

LU infrastructure.

They have worked further onto NR lines at Wimbledon during possession:

d37054

L22 and L27 / 5852 Wimbledon, 21/4/19 The battery locos were stabled on Network Rail metals during a possession to relay the track in platform 4 of Wimbledon station. The 455 was on 2K25 1118 London Waterloo to London Waterloo.

flic.kr

 

[D7666]

I've heard from Many sources and know that some of the LUL battery locos have mainline TOPS numbers , but have they ever run on the mainline and how do they interface with mainline signalling as I assume they only have Tripcocks

I've never seen any photos or evidence of them doing so but I assume a few must have had as it would be silly to register a loco on TOPS without it being able to run on NR metals.

LU battery locos "interface with signalling" on main lines is by track circuit occupation exactly as it is on LU conventionally signalled lines - the different ATO lines systems are obviously different. Tripcocks are irrelevant; tripcocks and trainstops are an additional protection overlaid on top track circuited tracks.

The LU locos that were TOPS registered were done because a number of them at various times in 200x years were hired by NetworkRail (actually it might have been Railtrack, or a contractor) for main line engineering works in tunnels well away from any LU route; ISTR Clapton tunnel was one location.

They were not TOPS registered because of joint / shared / adjacent / whatever infrastructure like Richmond or Wimbledon on anywhere else. If they do stray locally off LU metals on to NR metals in the course of such engineering work, that will be within the possession where reporting does not apply.

There is plenty of evidence for LU battery locos on main lines. Did you try google ?

BR Streatham Hill open day

Six Bells Junction

Battery Tube Rover railtour

I was on both (in part).

Those workings pre-dated TOPS registrsation which is recorded here

TOPS Class 97 – Railway Correspondence & Travel Society

features.rcts.org.uk

There never used to be a requirement for LU assets to be TOPS registered e.g. .....

Northern City stock transers

From the 'Widened Lines'

A tube stock transfer move from the Metropolitan 'Widened Lines' to Drayton Park LT depot, seen at Kings Cross, 2nd February 1971. London Transport battery locomotive 'L35' is on the rear of the 1938 tube stock, with L21 out of sight on the front end. On the stabling point in view are 346...

www.flickr.com

.... the stock transfer moves via Kings Cross main line. There are numerous references and images to be found on that subject.


AIUI they are all TOPS deregistered now, but I am open to correction on that point if someone can come up with authoritative definitive information (and NOT just quoting some web discussion). The reason, apart from that they are no longer so used on main line engineering, is that late 201x years all the remaining ones had a major refurbishment with significant alterations that required new main line approval and there is simply no need (nor money) to do it.

 

[43096]

AIUI they are all TOPS deregistered now, but I am open to correction on that point if someone can come up with authoritative definitive information (and NOT just quoting some web discussion). The reason, apart from that they are no longer so used on main line engineering, is that late 201x years all the remaining ones had a major refurbishment with significant alterations that required new main line approval and there is simply no need (nor money) to do it.

The battery locos are all de-registered off the National Vehicle Register - they were numbered 977xx where the xx was their Lxx number.

There are far more LU vehicles registered than might be realised - the Bakerloo line stock has mainline numbers for running over NR infrastructure, for example. Also notable is numbers were reserved for the 14 JLE diesels before their conversion to battery - numbers 97701-97714, with EVNs 98 70 0097 7xx-x.

 

[TonyW590]

Remember seeing this a few times, back in the day: https://flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/5849125152

 

[Port Road]

LU infrastructure.

They have worked further onto NR lines at Wimbledon during possession:

d37054

L22 and L27 / 5852 Wimbledon, 21/4/19 The battery locos were stabled on Network Rail metals during a possession to relay the track in platform 4 of Wimbledon station. The 455 was on 2K25 1118 London Waterloo to London Waterloo.

flic.kr

"LU infrastrucure" - are you sure? Unless it's all changed since my day the line is maintained and signalled by Network Rail (Wimbledon SCC (or Basingstoke ROC?)) and has main line (NR) signals (but these have train stops fitted). The line is also in use for SWT empty stock moves between Wimbledon Park depot and Waterloo, and occasionaly for passenger train diversions.

 

[mathstrains19]

"LU infrastrucure" - are you sure? Unless it's all changed since my day the line is maintained and signalled by Network Rail (Wimbledon SCC (or Basingstoke ROC?)) and has main line (NR) signals (but these have train stops fitted). The line is also in use for SWT empty stock moves between Wimbledon Park depot and Waterloo, and occasionaly for passenger train diversions.

I believe that it is LU owned and maintained, but is signalled by NR from Wimbledon.

 

[Port Road]

I believe that it is LU owned and maintained, but is signalled by NR from Wimbledon.

I see....I stand corrected then!

 

[pdeaves]

I believe that it is LU owned and maintained, but is signalled by NR from Wimbledon.

Correct. There was a derailment a few years ago ultimately caused by confusion over where the division of responsibility lay.

 

[edwin_m]

Along with the Waterloo and City, it was transferred to LU at privatisation as someone thought it made more sense considering LU was responsible for the passenger service. In fact in the case of Wimbledon-Putney they just created another anomaly, because as mentioned NR still signal it and various SWR workings also use it.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Along with the Waterloo and City, it was transferred to LU at privatisation as someone thought it made more sense considering LU was responsible for the passenger service. In fact in the case of Wimbledon-Putney they just created another anomaly, because as mentioned NR still signal it and various SWR workings also use it.

With regards to the W&C, do Network Rail still provide the traction current supply?

 

[norbitonflyer]

Didn't they used to drag 1938 stock from the Northern City Line at Drayton Park to the rest of the LU network via Finsbury Park, the ECML to Kings Cross York Road and then onto the connection between the widened lines and the main LU network at Farringdon?

yes - they were taken to and from Neasden, where the similar 1938 stock on the Bakerloo was maintained.

Before 1970 they ran to the Northern Line's Highgate depot, via Crouch End, along what is now the Parkland Walk (where I happened to be yesterday).

(Picture of 1938 stock at crouch End, with battery loco at far end)

Although it had been intended that this line would be transferred to London Transport as part of the "Northern heights" project, I understnd only the section beyond Highgate was transferred (now the High Barnet and Mill Hill Esat branches of the Northern Line). The section between Finsbury Park and Highgate was still used by BR passenger services to the original Alexandra Palace station until 1954, and freight even continued to serve the line beyond Highgate, running over LT tracks, well into the 1960s

(Picture of a Class 15 at East Finchley in 1962)

 

[Class15]

yes - they were taken to and from Neasden, where the similar 1938 stock on the Bakerloo was maintained.

Before 1970 they ran to the Northern Line's Highgate depot, via Crouch End, along what is now the Parkland Walk (where I happened to be yesterday).

(Picture of 1938 stock at crouch End, with battery loco at far end)

Although it had been intended that this line would be transferred to London Transport as part of the "Northern heights" project, I understnd only the section beyond Highgate was transferred (now the High Barnet and Mill Hill Esat branches of the Northern Line). The section between Finsbury Park and Highgate was still used by BR passenger services to the original Alexandra Palace station until 1954, and freight even continued to serve the line beyond Highgate, running over LT tracks, well into the 1960s

(Picture of a Class 15 at East Finchley in 1962)

Noticeable in the Crouch End picture that the train is running wrong line (or appears to be). Was the line effectively single-track by this point.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Noticeable in the Crouch End picture that the train is running wrong line (or appears to be). Was the line effectively single-track by this point.

Possibly. Assuning the tail light we can see is at the rear, the train is running in the down direction (towards Highgate) on the up line. I believe the flyover at the junction with the ECML was still in existence then, so running wrong line would have allowed the train to cross the ECML without conflicting with anything on the main line (Drayton Park is to the east of the ECML of cousre)

 

[Class15]

Possibly. Assuning the tail light we can see is at the rear, the train is running in the down direction (towards Highgate) on the up line. I believe the flyover at the junction with the ECML was still in existence then, so running wrong line would have allowed the train to cross the ECML without conflicting with anything on the main line (Drayton Park is to the east of the ECML of cousre)

Ah thanks - that does make perfect sense.

 

[Dstock7080]

Possibly. Assuning the tail light we can see is at the rear, the train is running in the down direction (towards Highgate) on the up line.

A support post can be seen holding up the station bridge, which is blocking the down line

 

[CarltonA]

I recall a mention of battery locos running to Quainton Road at some point. For a special event day possibly. Could be faulty memory syndrome however.

 

[swt_passenger]

With regards to the W&C, do Network Rail still provide the traction current supply?

Separated from NR in about 2016/17 according to the CP5 enhancement plans that were regularly published back then.

 

[Jim James]

Didn't they used to drag 1938 stock from the Northern City Line at Drayton Park to the rest of the LU network via Finsbury Park, the ECML to Kings Cross York Road and then onto the connection between the widened lines and the main LU network at Farringdon?

They use to transfer it via the old Norther Heights line which branched off North of Finsbury Park

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Nov 2025 ==

They use to transfer it via the old Norther Heights line which branched off North of Finsbury Park from there they went up to Barnet