Greater Anglia nationalisation updates

[Joe Paxton]

Interesting as I follow numerous local news websites ranging from BBC through the EDP to more local ones which have all run stories on GAs move across. I would estimate about 90% of posts are against GA moving across.
Time will tell but I predict a massive swing to Reform in the East and who knows what their vision of the future of rail is!

Have cake, eat it, eat as much as you want as it's not bad for you, blame something or someone else for any ill-effects of cake overconsumption, smear cake in the faces of others who demur, be annoyed that the promise of cake abundance might carry a cost, argue that someone else should be paying for cake, accuse those who are critical of cakeism of being joyless tofu consuming metropolitan Quorn supremacists, loudly order more cake...

 

[londonmidland]

Is this with the widely used white LED dot-matrix screens or LCD screens, do you know?

Looks like it’s a newer version of BlackBox displays.

 

[vuzzeho]

Is it maybe time to create a general GBR update thread? Since we've now got GBRX, the Railways bill coming early November according to Sir Andrew Haines, upcoming Anglia Railway, and all the DFTO stuff going on, maybe it's time to create a 'road-to-GBR' thread or something.

 

[Mikey C]

Fragmentation of the industry didn’t start with privatisation - Sectorisation was the start and it got fairly brutal between all the sectors and sub sectors. Beggar-thy-neighbour attitudes on the railway almost became a sport in itself.

The Region and Route structure favoured by Hendy has a drawback as far as Anglia is concerned. It is currently just a Route under a large Eastern Region. Personally, I favour it being a separate Region.

There has been fragmentation since the start. The Southern Region kept buying Mk1 based EMUs until the mid 70s, years after the other regions were buying more modern stock. And then bough 455s, which had many differences from the 317s operated north of the river. NSE created different boundaries, but at least it harmonised the London commuter network far better than before.

 

[MikeWM]

There's an unusually poor bus replacement for Stansted Express services on Sunday - 2 slow buses an hour stopping at lots of intermediate stations, and that's it. Aren't there usually fast buses to Waltham Cross? I know I've got those a couple of times in the last few years when GN have fallen over.

Indeed this is so poor that they've put up big red warning notices at stations about it, and even added a temporary easement allowing travel via Cambridge.

Presumably this isn't related to nationalisation, but it does seem an odd coincidence that the first weekend after nationalisation has such a poor bus replacement compared with what has happened previously?

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

There's an unusually poor bus replacement for Stansted Express services on Sunday - 2 slow buses an hour stopping at lots of intermediate stations, and that's it. Aren't there usually fast buses to Waltham Cross? I know I've got those a couple of times in the last few years when GN have fallen over.

Indeed this is so poor that they've put up big red warning notices at stations about it, and even added a temporary easement allowing travel via Cambridge.

Presumably this isn't related to nationalisation, but it does seem an odd coincidence that the first weekend after nationalisation has such a poor bus replacement compared with what has happened previously?

Maybe buses were unavailable?

 

[Horizon22]

There's an unusually poor bus replacement for Stansted Express services on Sunday - 2 slow buses an hour stopping at lots of intermediate stations, and that's it. Aren't there usually fast buses to Waltham Cross? I know I've got those a couple of times in the last few years when GN have fallen over.

Indeed this is so poor that they've put up big red warning notices at stations about it, and even added a temporary easement allowing travel via Cambridge.

Presumably this isn't related to nationalisation, but it does seem an odd coincidence that the first weekend after nationalisation has such a poor bus replacement compared with what has happened previously?

Booked rail replacement bus services are getting increasingly harder to source for a variety of reasons. And even that is easier than getting emergency rail replacement during significant disruption.

 

[MikeWM]

If the issue is bus availability, I wonder what alternatives could be put in place to avoid this happening again.

Two slow buses an hour replacing 6 trains - 4 of which serve an airport which is *very* busy on a Sunday - is obviously inadequate, and everyone clearly knows it (hence the scary red notices currently around GA stations warning of 'major disruption' on Sunday).

 

[F Great Eastern]

There's an unusually poor bus replacement for Stansted Express services on Sunday - 2 slow buses an hour stopping at lots of intermediate stations, and that's it. Aren't there usually fast buses to Waltham Cross? I know I've got those a couple of times in the last few years when GN have fallen over.

Indeed this is so poor that they've put up big red warning notices at stations about it, and even added a temporary easement allowing travel via Cambridge.

Presumably this isn't related to nationalisation, but it does seem an odd coincidence that the first weekend after nationalisation has such a poor bus replacement compared with what has happened previously?

Who was running it out of interest? Is it still going through Transport UK Rail Support?

 

[Class 170101]

There's an unusually poor bus replacement for Stansted Express services on Sunday - 2 slow buses an hour stopping at lots of intermediate stations, and that's it. Aren't there usually fast buses to Waltham Cross? I know I've got those a couple of times in the last few years when GN have fallen over.

Indeed this is so poor that they've put up big red warning notices at stations about it, and even added a temporary easement allowing travel via Cambridge.

Presumably this isn't related to nationalisation, but it does seem an odd coincidence that the first weekend after nationalisation has such a poor bus replacement compared with what has happened previously?

Usually trains run forward to Cheshunt or Broxbourne to change ends, but not this Sunday. That reduces capacity to 2tph due to Single Line Working from Brimsdown to Waltham Cross where trains terminate.

 

[WAB]

The Region and Route structure favoured by Hendy has a drawback as far as Anglia is concerned. It is currently just a Route under a large Eastern Region. Personally, I favour it being a separate Region.

It's not entirely clear where regions fit into the picture. When you take away what an integrated operating unit would be able to cover and what GBR HQ would cover, there doesn't seem to be much left for the regions. As you say, Anglia is very self-contained; you also have Scotland which doesn't have a route, Wales where its inclusion within W&W is controversial and being moved away from in many respects, NW&C and Eastern where the northern parts are increasingly aligned with both the traditional north-south orientations as well as the Quad (Northern + TransPennine + NR NE + NR NW). It doesn't lend itself to the region being a substantial and powerful org unit.

I don't think a return to the powerful BR regions of old would be useful on today's railway.

 

[OxtedSignaller]

Who was running it out of interest? Is it still going through Transport UK Rail Support?

I imagine so even before public ownership due to the management contracts, rail replacement bus operation has had to be procured through a competitive tender. This is why Transport UK are even running GTR's now instead of Go Ahead.

 

[StephenHunter]

I imagine so even before public ownership due to the management contracts, rail replacement bus operation has had to be procured through a competitive tender. This is why Transport UK are even running GTR's now instead of Go Ahead.

Why is it called a tender anyway? Tenders are for steam locomotives.

 

[JamesT]

Why is it called a tender anyway? Tenders are for steam locomotives.

The word tender comes via French/Latin where it means to stretch or extend. So you’re extending out an offer when you’re making a tender. On the railway you’re extending the capacity of the locomotive.

 

[MikeWM]

Usually trains run forward to Cheshunt or Broxbourne to change ends, but not this Sunday. That reduces capacity to 2tph due to Single Line Working from Brimsdown to Waltham Cross where trains terminate.

So possibly the bus service was deliberately reduced as the trains meeting them were limited? I'd have thought in that case it would be possible/preferable to send (some/all of) the buses somewhere else instead - Stratford perhaps (as per the Stansted coach services)?

It would be interesting to know how this service that looked awful went in practice, did anyone here experience it?

 

[thedbdiboy]

There has been fragmentation since the start. The Southern Region kept buying Mk1 based EMUs until the mid 70s, years after the other regions were buying more modern stock. And then bough 455s, which had many differences from the 317s operated north of the river. NSE created different boundaries, but at least it harmonised the London commuter network far better than before.

Although the regions pursued different strategies until sectorisation the differences were far less. Firstly, the the regions weren't buying these EMUs - they were building them. Secondly, although for example the SR persisted with Mk1 EMUs they created full compatibility across the whole of the Southern third rail area between stock and locos; and locos, for example, could couple up and rescue EMUs. There is an opportunity for GBR to bring a much greater deal of harmonisation over time.

 

[StephenHunter]

I went to East Ham Depot's open day on Saturday, learning that the 357s and 720s are capable of rescuing each other, although not working in multiple. We've got the NR/GA/c2c combination coming as Anglia Railway, but what that will entail isn't known yet.

 

[leemcl210]

Would seem that one thing that has disappeared following changes is the “Hare Fare”….Frustratingly

 

[CyrusWuff]

Would seem that one thing that has disappeared following changes is the “Hare Fare”….Frustratingly

That's nothing to do with their move to DfTO. As a promotional fare, they can only offer them for a maximum of 34 weeks and have to have a break of at least 17 weeks before they can bring them back.

This year they were available to buy for two weeks before Easter, and for travel until mid-June.

That said, they're currently running an Autumn Sale that's only available to purchase through their website or app.

20% off their lowest price Advances. Book at least 7 days in advance. Book by 4th November for travel between 28th October and 15th December.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Would seem that one thing that has disappeared following changes is the “Hare Fare”….Frustratingly

I also note that the warnings / important info has slipped much further down the homepage as well.

 

[saismee]

These are both pre-nationalisation things. There's no point in trying to pin the blame on the government for this.

From what I heard from GA staff at the time, hare fares were causing quite a bit of overcrowding on stations with unsuitable gatelines or layouts. They certainly weren't popular with staff. It also made it a hassle to explain for walk-up fares as it was cheaper to buy online than at a TVM.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

These are both pre-nationalisation things. There's no point in trying to pin the blame on the government for this.

From what I heard from GA staff at the time, hare fares were causing quite a bit of overcrowding on stations with unsuitable gatelines or layouts. They certainly weren't popular with staff. It also made it a hassle to explain for walk-up fares as it was cheaper to buy online than at a TVM.

Probably not overly different from the post COVID management contracts but my fear is there is not much incentive to encourage more passengers, prime example Hare Fares causing overcrowding and solution isn't how can we cater for the extra passengers.

 

[Farnborough]

Now that both GA and C2C/LTS are in the hands of DfT do we see scope for (re-)integration of C2C/LTS into the Greater Anglia region?

And (stand fast Crossrail 2) do we see any of these services transferred to TfL/Overground - the Lea Valley Lines have been successfully transferred, but (for example) what about the stopping services on the Tottenham Hale/Meridien Water branch?

 

[Class 170101]

And (stand fast Crossrail 2) do we see any of these services transferred to TfL/Overground - the Lea Valley Lines have been successfully transferred, but (for example) what about the stopping services on the Tottenham Hale/Meridien Water branch?

Can't see it myself until Crossrail 2 is built as you would still need to provide local services to Bishops Stortford (otherwise more stops in Cambridge services) and there isn't capacity on the Coppermill Jn to Broxbourne Jn section for more trains.

 

[Brubulus]

Probably not overly different from the post COVID management contracts but my fear is there is not much incentive to encourage more passengers, prime example Hare Fares causing overcrowding and solution isn't how can we cater for the extra passengers.

What was the revenue impact of Hare Fares? How disastrous was it for the taxpayer or did it lead to a reduction in subsidy per passenger km?

 

[Adrian1980uk]

What was the revenue impact of Hare Fares? How disastrous was it for the taxpayer or did it lead to a reduction in subsidy per passenger km?

I have no idea but remember GA was one of the few TOCs paying into the treasury rather than taking subsidy (yes that does not take into account the network rail grant). This will now all be behind closed doors which regions of GBR 'profitable' and which take large subsidies.