Just saw ICE-L trains, pretty interesting bogie setup and low floor

[Silent]

What are your opinions of them if you have any.

 

[NCT]

If Spanish Talgo sets are anything to go by, expect a pretty awful ride quality. I hope I'm proven wrong.

 

[43096]

If Spanish Talgo sets are anything to go by, expect a pretty awful ride quality. I hope I'm proven wrong.

And if ICE3neo is anything to go by, expect a decent interior!

 

[NCT]

The interior does look very good - the seat to window alignment seems excellent.

 

[Amalie]

The interior looks sharp, but as others have noted, this is somewhat irrelevant if the ride quality is similar to the Avros. I very much dislike the front. The first renders of the ICE-L, then codenamed ICX had a flat black front that made it look very futuristic and in my eyes very worthy of being called an “ICE” despite it being loco-hauled with a max speed of 230km/h. These lorry-like fronts, on the other hand, not so much.

 

[Silent]

If Spanish Talgo sets are anything to go by, expect a pretty awful ride quality. I hope I'm proven wrong.

Yeah that was commented about in the video at one point

 

[superalbs]

Yeah that was commented about in the video at one point

The video of course manages to totally omit the key point of Talgo trains, which is the ride quality.

Any flashy interior is totally meaningless if these trains throw you around like all the other Talgo trains I have tried.

 

[dmncf]

I like the level boarding - I think it will become the new norm.

 

[NCT]

The video of course manages to totally omit the key point of Talgo trains, which is the ride quality.

Any flashy interior is totally meaningless if these trains throw you around like all the other Talgo trains I have tried.

To be fair Thibault has mentioned that exact thing. And there's not much you can go on with a static display ...

 

[Silent]

The video of course manages to totally omit the key point of Talgo trains, which is the ride quality.

Any flashy interior is totally meaningless if these trains throw you around like all the other Talgo trains I have tried.

I don't know if he said anything about Talgo trains, I have to rewatch, but he definitely noted that the wheels may cause an uncomfortable ride. I know as I was reading the subtitles throughout the video.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

The ICE-L is a Talgo train...

 

[sh24]

If Spanish Talgo sets are anything to go by, expect a pretty awful ride quality. I hope I'm proven wrong.

RZD Strizh sets had the most appalling ride

 

[superalbs]

RZD Strizh sets had the most appalling ride

But have you seen the latest generation in Spain?

 

[NCT]

We are not hopeful then ...

 

[Bletchleyite]

If Spanish Talgo sets are anything to go by, expect a pretty awful ride quality. I hope I'm proven wrong.

Assuming German track is still to the high standard it was, it'll be fine. I remember the old InterCityNight Talgo sets being smooth as silk - best night's sleep I ever had on a train. The only UK track I know of that's anywhere near as smooth as a German rural branch line is the south WCML fasts.

The interiors look superb.

 

[superalbs]

Assuming German track is still to the high standard it was, it'll be fine. I remember the old InterCityNight Talgo sets being smooth as silk - best night's sleep I ever had on a train. The only UK track I know of that's anywhere near as smooth as a German rural branch line is the south WCML fasts.

The interiors look superb.

I highly doubt this. I am yet to experience anything approaching "acceptable" ride-quality on a Talgo train. Not sure how this could magically change now.

I sure hope it's good, but I don't expect it.

 

[Amalie]

Assuming German track is still to the high standard it was, it'll be fine. I remember the old InterCityNight Talgo sets being smooth as silk - best night's sleep I ever had on a train. The only UK track I know of that's anywhere near as smooth as a German rural branch line is the south WCML fasts.

The interiors look superb.

Well the issue is that the ICE-L was really meant for routes where the track quality can really deviate from the German norm: more remote diesel-only lines such as to Sylt (which is why it’s loco-hauled to begin with), and international connections to The Netherlands and potentially to Austria. Now The Netherlands and Austria could have better or worse track quality, but either way you’re basically leaving it up to chance at that point.

 

[sh24]

But have you seen the latest generation in Spain?

I have not....how bad are they?

 

[Paul AC]

Over the past five years or so I've travelled over nearly every passenger line in Spain - so I've ridden on a lot of Talgo trains, including the latest class 106 "Avril" sets. High speed line or classic line, broad gauge or standard gauge, the ride quality at speed of all Talgos is basically fidgety or jittery at best, and downright rough at worst - and the 106s are amongst the worst. It's a good concept in theory, but significantly flawed in practice.

 

[AlterEgo]

The only half decent Talgo ride was on the Trenhotel Pendular sets; I expect the ICE-L to run much less smoothly than this. I'll be on the inaugural.

 

[gallafent]

The only half decent Talgo ride was on the Trenhotel Pendular sets; I expect the ICE-L to run much less smoothly than this. I'll be on the inaugural.

That's interesting, and echoes my experience: those were excellent, and it's such a shame they no longer run (Paris<->Madrid was a brilliant service ... but, then again, so is Paris<->Barcelona<->Madrid by TGV and AVE, so that's progress ... 14h19m from London to Madrid on Eurostar-TGV-2xAVE is pretty decent, but the option to go overnight from Paris was definitely useful ...); the Talgo high speed trains I've been on recently are definitely pretty jittery / jerky.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I highly doubt this. I am yet to experience anything approaching "acceptable" ride-quality on a Talgo train. Not sure how this could magically change now.

I sure hope it's good, but I don't expect it.

You've presumably not tried one in Germany? I'm not joking when I say the smallest rural branch line has better quality track than 125mph mainlines in the UK do. Might get bumpy when they head into Belgium and the Netherlands though.

 

[Tinginys]

You've presumably not tried one in Germany? I'm not joking when I say the smallest rural branch line has better quality track than 125mph mainlines in the UK do. Might get bumpy when they head into Belgium and the Netherlands though.

Are German tracks smoother and built up to higher standards than new tracks in Spain? Or other countries where Talgo trains run on new tracks? The problem seems to be the trains, not the tracks. And vice versa, ICE3 Neo will probably do comparatively well even on bumpy rails.

 

[stadler]

Talgo trains are basically just locomotive hauled pacers. Imagine riding a 142 on a high speed or intercity line and that is basically what you have. The ride quality is awful. I have never been impressed with them. The ones in Russia were hated by both staff and passengers and have sensibly been withdrawn now so it is a shame to see Germany introduce it. I suppose at least the interior of the German ones looks a bit better than the Spanish ones.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Imagine riding a 142 on a high speed or intercity line and that is basically what you have.

I can't remember where I read the article, but there was testing of the Pacers on the WCML, and they indeed rode very smoothly, you could supposedly balance a 20p on its side on the floor without it falling over. If your track quality is very good, you can get away without bogies. The problem was that the Pacer wasn't intended for running along the WCML, it was intended for branch lines where the track is of far lower quality.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Oct 2025 ==

I suppose at least the interior of the German ones looks a bit better than the Spanish ones.

The interior looks absolutely superb. Window aligned in second class too! Given that they're not much bigger than UK gauge, this is really the sort of interior we should be aspiring to here.

I genuinely remember the InterCityNight ones riding well on high quality German mainline track - we will have to see how it goes!

 

[superalbs]

Are German tracks smoother and built up to higher standards than new tracks in Spain? Or other countries where Talgo trains run on new tracks? The problem seems to be the trains, not the tracks. And vice versa, ICE3 Neo will probably do comparatively well even on bumpy rails.

The problem absolutely is with the design of the trains. You can compare different trains over identical track, and see how unpleasant the Talgo is in comparison. I've done this in Spain, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, and Bosnia.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The problem absolutely is with the design of the trains. You can compare different trains over identical track, and see how unpleasant the Talgo is in comparison. I've done this in Spain, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, and Bosnia.

However with the superb quality of track found in Germany, it's entirely possible - probable, I'd say - that in most of their use the ICE-Ls will offer a higher ride quality than a Hitachi or CAF product does on the typical lower quality British track. It might not be as good as an ICE3, on which if it's dark you'll have no idea you're moving apart from the odd thing flashing past the window, but it'll be plenty good enough.

Or compare a Pendolino and a 350 on the south WCML fasts. The Pendolino rides well enough but you can feel you're moving. The 350 offers, in places, a ride like the ICE example above - you can't tell it's moving at night apart from the noise and occasional station flashing past - but it doesn't necessarily *have* to be that good.

 

[43096]

However with the superb quality of track found in Germany, it's entirely possible - probable, I'd say - that in most of their use the ICE-Ls will offer a higher ride quality than a Hitachi or CAF product does on the typical lower quality British track. It might not be as good as an ICE3, on which if it's dark you'll have no idea you're moving apart from the odd thing flashing past the window, but it'll be plenty good enough.

Or compare a Pendolino and a 350 on the south WCML fasts. The Pendolino rides well enough but you can feel you're moving. The 350 offers, in places, a ride like the ICE example above - you can't tell it's moving at night apart from the noise and occasional station flashing past - but it doesn't necessarily *have* to be that good.

There will be an interesting comparison when the DSB Talgos enter service between Copenhagen and Hamburg and the ČD ComfortJets when they start on the same route. Straight shootout between Talgo and Siemens - I know where my money is!

 

[Bletchleyite]

There will be an interesting comparison when the DSB Talgos enter service between Copenhagen and Hamburg and the ČD ComfortJets when they start on the same route. Straight shootout between Talgo and Siemens - I know where my money is!

I'd not doubt that the ride of a traditional 26.2m bogied hauled coach will be better than the Talgo one, but equally on high quality German track I would be surprised if the Talgo one was unacceptable, it just won't be quite as good. Both will probably ride better than a Class 397 on the WCML or an 800 on the GWML.

 

[Trainbike46]

You've presumably not tried one in Germany? I'm not joking when I say the smallest rural branch line has better quality track than 125mph mainlines in the UK do. Might get bumpy when they head into Belgium and the Netherlands though.

They are not intended for services to Belgium, are they?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Oct 2025 ==

There will be an interesting comparison when the DSB Talgos enter service between Copenhagen and Hamburg and the ČD ComfortJets when they start on the same route. Straight shootout between Talgo and Siemens - I know where my money is!

CD are planning to run between Hamburg and Copenhagen? Or am I misunderstanding you?