York Station. Map on national rail.co.uk

[Swaine]

I’ve looked on the National Rail Journey Planner website for a plan showing the numbering of the York Station platforms.

The details for York Station include a plan showing the layout of the station. The plan includes the platform numbers.

The platform numbers are just about illegible, mainly because the plan is a 3D image. The same style is used for Newcastle, although the platform numbers are slightly clearer but still unreadable.

I looked at other stations. Kings Cross, Edinburgh and Manchester Victoria for example are all 2D plans and perfectly clear

Can anyone offer an explanation for the change of presentation for York? Or is it a case of style over substance?

 

[chrisjo]

Yes, dreadful. Here's the old one:

 

[plugwash]

I suspect it's a case of wanting/needing to update the maps, but whatever system was originally used to make the "stations made easy" maps has either bitrotted or the maps it produces were considered too old-fassioned (and to be fair it definately had it's flaws, like apparently having no concept of angles other than right angles) so you get various ad-hoc soloutions used to make new maps.

 

[rower40]

On reading this thread, I looked for the map of York station on the National Rail website.
It’s very pretty. So is a Faberge egg, but both are as much use when navigating York station.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

The new map would work if you could pan around it as a 3d model rather than being a static image.

 

[Bantamzen]

What did they use to make that image, a Commodore 64? That is simply terrible.

 

[chrisjo]

According to National Rail in a Twitter response to a similar complaint in 2023, the new maps are being supplied by the TOC operating the station. It looks to me like LNER supplied a nice big 3D picture which NR have then reduced to the size of a thumbnail.

https://x.com/Inv_Pete/status/1682424395753570304

Sorry, how on EARTH are the new @nationalrailenq
maps (left) better than the old ones?!

This is flipping dreadful. Genuinely dreadful. I can't show passengers this

Hi Peter, all maps are supplied by the train company that manages the station.

So NRE have gone from a set style across every single station to individual TOCs managing it?? How on earth is that better?!

Think RDG said they didn’t have money to make the maps… we are going to use Brite Yellow VR maps at some bigger stations I think.

That is embarrassing. Extremely embarrassing. I like how west mids have just used the old maps

You can see the same problem for Newark, Doncaster, Peterborough, and so on. All useless.

LNER have decent descriptions of all the facilities at their stations on their own website, but there are no maps or plans.

 

[norbitonflyer]

According to National Rail in a Twitter response to a similar complaint in 2023, the new maps are being supplied by the TOC operating the station. It looks to me like LNER supplied a nice big 3D picture which NR have then reduced to the size of a thumbnail.

https://x.com/Inv_Pete/status/1682424395753570304

You can see the same problem for Newark, Doncaster, Peterborough, and so on. All useless.

LNER have decent descriptions of all the facilities at their stations on their own website, but there are no maps or plans.

I've just had a look - who on earth accepted these?

The worst is probably Doncaster because, havinga subway, it is actually impossible to see how to get between platforms. Newark is also spactacularly bad for such a simple layout - the actual station takes up less than 10% of the image - the rest is the car park and approach road.

Newcastle almost works - possibly because the platforms are so tightly curved they can fit into the image better with less extranous detail 9like York's city wall!)

It looks like Eleanor is not the only muppet at LNER !

 

[Swaine]

So, the story to date:

Sometime prior to July 23 the LNER station maps on the National Rail Journey Planner website were changed.
The updated maps are essentially illegible and therefore useless.
This was pointed out to National Rail twitter. Their reply was the plans were provided by the TOC, in this case LNER.
National Rail do not appear to have done anything to sort this out since the original complaint in July 23.

A legible station map is a pretty fundamental requirement for a journey planner.

How do you get National Rail to come to the table and do something to correct this?

Any ideas?

 

[GatwickDepress]

Short of convincing National Rail to invest in something similar to DB's Bahnhof overlaid vector maps and their isometric PDF downloadable/printable equivalents (attached, to save people from a random PDF in their Downloads folder), you could ask LNER to resubmit their station plans to National Rail as PDFs instead of image files?

Southern uploaded their render of Brighton station as a PDF and it has retained its quality.

 

[kieron]

Yes, dreadful. Here's the old one:
View attachment 190987

There's a copy of that map on archive.org (map here, thumbnail here). Sadly it hasn't preserved the photos which were on the tooltip things.

And sadly nre.co.uk have stopped showing tooltips for the "stations made easy" maps it still hosts. That's pretty painful for stations like Moorfields where it means they no longer say where one of the lifts goes.

I suspect it's a case of wanting/needing to update the maps, but whatever system was originally used to make the "stations made easy" maps has either bitrotted or the maps it produces were considered too old-fassioned (and to be fair it definately had it's flaws, like apparently having no concept of angles other than right angles) so you get various ad-hoc soloutions used to make new maps.

NRE's supplier did use angles now and again. While it's a dreadful map in many respects, the Earlestown map (link) includes 45 degree angles for a footpath.

The worst is probably Doncaster because, havinga subway, it is actually impossible to see how to get between platforms.

The Doncaster map at least marks the ends of the subways. The Newcastle one has three lifts dotted around and leaves you to guess where any of them go.

 

[plugwash]

NRE's supplier did use angles now and again. While it's a dreadful map in many respects, the Earlestown map (link) includes 45 degree angles for a footpath.

As you say, there is a footpath at a 45 degree angle, but everything else is at 90 degree angles and it feels like it was laid out on a grid "grid" using standard tiles (though I haven't tried to confirm the grid pitch).

 

[Gaelan]

The ECML stations have all been like this for a while now - I think at least a year, possibly even longer. It's not good.

 

[Vexed]

Southern uploaded their render of Brighton station as a PDF and it has retained its quality.

Not a great design though - the Concourse layout on Page 1 has no platform numbers and they're almost invisible on the second page being white text on a lightish grey background. Took me a good few seconds to find them on my phone screen. Surely the labels should be written nearer the ticket barriers a second time as that's where you actually would plan to get between platforms.

 

[BrianW]

Disappointing how few folk have contibuted to this thread- maybe a measure of how little response is expected from a resistant body of designers and decision makers. Simplequestion- what and who are these maps for? To help folk get from where they are to where they need to be.

The font is so small; the platform numbers similarly. the visual contrasts of grey or white or yellow on grey? Have these maps been passed by anyone with any disability, eye issues, mobility issues ...?

Is there a British Standard?