Future of the 350/2s

[61653 HTAFC]

If the 350/2s did replace the 323s, if DMUs are an issue then I guess Glossop would have to become Rail Replacement bus services until the 382s come into service.

Anyway we will just have to wait and see what happens next year, as I don't think we will hear anything officially about any future home (if there ever is one) for the 350/2s this year.

That's a pretty big sacrifice just so that some mid-life units don't get prematurely scrapped.

 

[Class15]

If the 350/2s did replace the 323s, if DMUs are an issue then I guess Glossop would have to become Rail Replacement bus services until the 382s come into service.

Anyway we will just have to wait and see what happens next year, as I don't think we will hear anything officially about any future home (if there ever is one) for the 350/2s this year.

Or just retain a limited number of 323s for the Glossop line?!

 

[Zomboid]

Or just retain a limited number of 323s for the Glossop line?!

They won't go on forever of course, but if Northern do take on the 350s to replace most of their 323s then there'd be plenty of spares to keep the rest going...

 

[Dspatula]

Or just retain a limited number of 323s for the Glossop line?!

or even simpler just run it with 3 car 331s. I'm sure some more people can manage to stand in peak time.

 

[Mamorin]

Or just retain a limited number of 323s for the Glossop line?!

A good idea, but that would leave the 323s as a micro fleet, and TOCs tend to hate Micro fleets.

Honestly I don't get why Northern have decided that just because the WCML North of Preston is getting ETCS that the whole 323 fleet has to go by 2031 no ifs, no buts.

As I've said once before I think we will have to wait until next year before we hear anything about a new home (if any) there is for the 350/2 fleet.

 

[bluenoxid]

Could the other platform at Dinting be an option?

 

[Mamorin]

After looking at a map of the route and the photo of the signs on the Glossop platform I would say no.

Dinting has two platforms one for Glossop services and the one for Hadfield services.

You can't use one platform for both services, you can see the points which separate the two platforms in this video.

 

[D365]

Honestly I don't get why Northern have decided that just because the WCML North of Preston is getting ETCS that the whole 323 fleet has to go by 2031 no ifs, no buts.

Where is this confirmed?

 

[skyhigh]

Honestly I don't get why Northern have decided that just because the WCML North of Preston is getting ETCS that the whole 323 fleet has to go by 2031 no ifs, no buts.

Have they actually decided that? Do you have a source?

 

[Mamorin]

I do have a source, latest issue of Modern Railways.

It has an interview with Northern's Strategic Development Director and Northern's Director of New Rolling Stock Programmes.

So yes Northern have decided on a 2031 withdrawal date for the whole 323s fleet.

 

[bluenoxid]

After looking at a map of the route and the photo of the signs on the Glossop platform I would say no.

Dinting has two platforms one for Glossop services and the one for Hadfield services.

You can't use one platform for both services, you can see the points which separate the two platforms in this video.

For clarity on my point, most trains operate through Dinting to Glossop, reverse then head to Hadfield. If the curve at Dinting is an issue, why not use the other platform, operate to Hadfield, reverse then head to Glossop?

 

[Mamorin]

I was unaware the trains reverse at Glossop to get to Hadfeild my bad.

Your idea sounds like it would solve the issue. In this video here at the 25:13 mark the Hadfield platform is seen being used, and there is no curve so 4 car services could work if trains turned around at Hadfield.

The video is from 2017, but I can't see anything having changed in terms of the platform since then.

Edit:The Glossop platform at Dinting would still be an issue, as any service from Glossop to Piccadilly would use the curved Glossop platform.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I was unaware the trains reverse at Glossop to get to Hadfeild my bad.

Your idea sounds like it would solve the issue. In this video here at the 25:13 mark the Hadfield platform is seen being used, and there is no curve so 4 car services could work if trains turned around at Hadfield.

The video is from 2017, but I can't see anything having changed in terms of the platform since then.

Edit:The Glossop platform at Dinting would still be an issue, as any service from Glossop to Piccadilly would use the curved Glossop platform.

This was discussed on the previous page (and the first post on this page). It would be possible to operate everything via the Dinting to Hadfield side, reverse at Hadfield, and terminate at Glossop before returning back via Hadfield again. However this would mean a longer journey time to and from Glossop which has approximately 2x the ridership of Hadfield. It would also put a cap on frequencies in the peak if the Glossop-Dinting curve was no longer used for passenger service. I suppose that if that platform was simply taken out of use, and direct trains to Glossop no longer called at Dinting, that would also work- but at the cost of reducing the service that Dinting receives.
That's quite a lot of trouble just so that Porterbrook aren't left with a fleet of units without a home because they didn't price them competitively.

 

[Mamorin]

I must have missed those posts my bad.

Yeah that is a lot of of trouble just so that Porterbook can fix the mess they created.

 

[scosutsut]

Is it possible that Northern are using the WCML ETCS installation as a reason to ensure they aren't having to keep the 323s beyond 2031 by when even the youngest ones will be 36 years old - in an effort to end the seemingly never ending cycle of life expired stock they've endured?

I've also not seen anyone raise the prospect of that 2031 date sliding because of delays on signalling. That feels slightly more likely than just "possible"

 

[amahy]

Is it possible that Northern are using the WCML ETCS installation as a reason to ensure they aren't having to keep the 323s beyond 2031 by when even the youngest ones will be 36 years old - in an effort to end the seemingly never ending cycle of life expired stock they've endured?

I highly doubt it - there is no deadline withdrawal date for any of the sprinters (the oldest of which will be 46 in 2031!), and it's looking likely that the 158s will continue for a good few years after the 323s, despite the 158s being older.

 

[Mamorin]

I've also not seen anyone raise the prospect of that 2031 date sliding because of delays on signalling. That feels slightly more likely than just "possible"

I was just going off what is in the article, and based off the interview as of now Northern do not think the ETCS on the WCML will be delayed.

 

[Wolfie]

Is it possible that Northern are using the WCML ETCS installation as a reason to ensure they aren't having to keep the 323s beyond 2031 by when even the youngest ones will be 36 years old - in an effort to end the seemingly never ending cycle of life expired stock they've endured?

I've also not seen anyone raise the prospect of that 2031 date sliding because of delays on signalling. That feels slightly more likely than just "possible"

If HMT get a whiff of any such thing then Northern can kiss goodbye to any investment.

 

[TrainLifeGB]

Any photos or videos out there, does anyone know?

There is this "https://x.com/PiddlyStations/status/1963017535508398539" on X from a month ago. Credits to PiddyStations for the photo.
350232 is at Manchester Piccadilly in this photo testing on the Glossip Line

 

[Mamorin]

@tfw756rider was referring to the tests at Salford Crescent.

That photo you shared a link to was from last month, and was the overnight tests on the Glossop Line.

 

[TrainLifeGB]

@tfw756rider was referring to the tests at Salford Crescent.

That photo you shared a link to was from last month, and was the overnight tests on the Glossop Line.

Oh, well then no. Not that i know of any pictures of that then.

 

[Mamorin]

I doubt anybody went out to catch the Salford Crescent tests to be fair.

The 2 of the Glossop tests were easy to catch because it was day time and back then everyone was sure the tests ment the 350/2s were going to Northern.

I suspect that the Modern Railways article from 2 months ago killed off any interest in catching any future 350/2 tests in the North West.

 

[tfw756rider]

Thanks both anyway I guess not everything is going to be captured, and even if it is, not necessarily put on the internet.

 

[TrainLifeGB]

I suspect that the Modern Railways article from 2 months ago killed off any interest in catching any future 350/2 tests in the North West.

What happened 2 months ago? It's been a fair while since i read it.

 

[TheGrew]

Selfishly I would love the 350s on a Semi-Fast service between Crewe and Preston something like Crewe - Winsford - Hartford - Warrington BQ - Newton-le-Willows (my selfishness), Golborne - Wigan NW - Euxton - Preston.
No idea if it would be possible to path but I could imagine their 110mph capability could be useful on that corridor.

Edit: Assuming you could quad track much of Wigan - Euxton putting stations in at Coppull and Standish as well.

 

[tfw756rider]

What happened 2 months ago? It's been a fair while since i read it.

I think it was a "we have no current plans" type thing, which some people interpreted as "they won't be going to Northern", yet there have been more tests since then.

 

[TrainLifeGB]

I think it was a "we have no current plans" type thing, which some people interpreted as "they won't be going to Northern", yet there have been more tests since then.

I do find the tests to show that they may go to Northern even if Northern don't have plans to use them YET. If they're fitted with batteries, they could replace their 769s? Temporarily, i mean.

Also, is there a 350/2 to be withdrawn soon we think?

 

[Mamorin]

"we have no current plans"

That is what was said in the article, and that is what will have killed off a lot of interest in the latest tests.

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If they're fitted with batteries, they could replace their 769s? Temporarily, i mean.

Battery 350/2s was something Porterbrook were looking at doing a few years ago (back during the 769 conversions), but I think the plan has been dropped since it had not been mentioned since.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Oct 2025 ==

Also, is there a 350/2 to be withdrawn soon we think?

The 350/2 fleet is due to be withdrawn in December iirc.

 

[TrainLifeGB]

Battery 350/2s was something Porterbrook were looking at doing a few years ago (back during the 769 conversions), but I think the plan has been dropped since it had not been mentioned since.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Oct 2025 ==


The 350/2 fleet is due to be withdrawn in December iirc.

Ah, a shame the battery 350/2s was dropped. I was looking forward to that. Let's hope they get use elsewhere! As for the December withdrawal date, i best ride some more before then! Could be years before we and IF we get a chance to ride one again.

 

[Nym]

Ah, a shame the battery 350/2s was dropped. I was looking forward to that. Let's hope they get use elsewhere! As for the December withdrawal date, i best ride some more before then! Could be years before we and IF we get a chance to ride one again.

It’s not a shame at all.
The battery range that would have been possible with the space on them under frames would have not been suitable for any operators wanting it.