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Russia invades Ukraine

YorkshireBear

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Not surprising, Victor Orban says Ukraine is not a sovereign nation as it is supported by the west. Suppose Hungary isn't either due to the EU money.

Link to BBC article

Relevant quote from end of article

The EU's financial support for Ukraine will also be discussed, more than three and a half years into Russia's full-scale war.

Ukraine is also a candidate to join the EU, but is facing hardening opposition from Hungary and tensions along their shared border, after Kyiv accused Budapest of sending reconnaissance drones into western Ukraine.

Hungary's Prime Minister Viktor Orban, who is one of Russia's closest allies in the EU, claimed Ukraine was "not a sovereign country" as it was being financed by the West.

More concerning is a potential shift in Czechia, where the polls may lead to a much less Pro EAU, Pro NATO and Pro Ukraine government being installed with potentially some elements of government wanting to cut things entirely. A shame as the Czechia led ammunition drive has been very successful.

Link to BBC article on Czechia

Billionaire populist eyes power in Czech vote but may need help from extremes​


Czechs go to the polls on Friday and Saturday facing a deteriorating security situation in Europe and fears of Russian interference.
Populist billionaire Andrej Babis, 71, is tipped to head the next government, replacing the strongly pro-Western, pro-Ukraine coalition.
But he'll likely need allies on the extremes of Czech politics – and their price will not be cheap.
"We'll never drag the Czech Republic to the East. I can absolutely rule that out," Babis told a crowd of mostly elderly supporters, gathered around a stage in the former steel town of Kladno, just outside Prague.
"We weren't the ones who sat down with Putin - we were the ones who expelled Russian diplomats!" he went on, referring to measures taken in his first term following revelations that Russia's GRU military intelligence had blown up a Czech ammunition dump in 2014.


A row of grey heads nodded as the former prime minister warmed to his theme.
"And never - I repeat, never - will we consider leaving the European Union. Look at what happened to Great Britain! And they're a nuclear power. They've got gas, oil, a fishing industry. They're friends with Trump," he added.
Andrej Babis himself is also friends with US President Donald Trump.
Many supporters were wearing Babis's red baseball cap emblazoned with the words "Strong Czechia" – heavily inspired by Trump's Maga movement.
The problem for Babis – and it could soon become a problem for Nato and the EU – is that his ANO party is unlikely to win an overall majority.
Instead, he will likely need to form alliances with smaller parties on the fringes of Czech politics.
Opinion polls and public statements suggest his choice of potential allies will be limited to the ultra-nationalist SPD, the anti-Green-Deal Motorists, and Enough! - who are an ad-hoc coalition of rebranded Communists, the remnants of the once-mighty Social Democrats, and a blogger in a black hat who calls himself "Pitchfork" (the Czech word for redneck).
On Wednesday night, during his only head-to-head debate with Prime Minister Petr Fiala, Andrej Babis ruled out forming a coalition with the Communists. "I'll sign a piece of paper to that effect right here in the studio," he said.
Several of his potential allies want referendums on leaving the EU and Nato.
ANO says that is not going to happen.
"We criticise the European Union, but we don't want to destroy it, we want to reform it," deputy leader Karel Havlicek told the BBC.
"And Nato, well, we can criticise many things about it, but joining Nato was the most important milestone in the history of the Czech Republic, and our position is to strengthen it," he went on.


As we spoke a large inflatable dinosaur loomed over our heads, part of a bouncy castle erected for the ANO rally. For older supporters there were tents offering cups of coffee, free blood pressure checks and the red baseball caps.
By the time I left they were gone.
Across town, 19-year-old political science student Ondrej Kapralek, who is an activist for the liberal Pirate Party, is preparing to vote in his first election.
The Pirates were part of the centre-right government until they left the coalition over a bungled digitalisation scheme.
But their political star is rising again, and could attract voters disillusioned with both the government and the populist or extremist opposition.


"I certainly feel we should invest in our security," the student said.
"It's not just about housing, it's not just about the economy, it's not just about the EU - all of these things have to come together for my country to show my generation that they can have a great future here," he told the BBC.
Like many young Czech progressives, he is worried his country could follow in the footsteps of Robert Fico's Slovakia or Viktor Orban's Hungary – both EU and Nato members, but increasingly illiberal and in favour of closer ties with Moscow.
"Russia is waging a massive campaign of disinformation against the Czech Republic," said security analyst Roman Maca, adding that Russian intelligence services were also believed to be behind cyber-attacks and cases of arson.
He believes the presence of Russia-friendly parties in an ANO-led government should set alarm bells ringing across Europe.
"These parties are pro-Russian, so they will want what is good for the Kremlin," he told the BBC.
"They will ask ANO to stop supporting Ukraine, to end the Czech ammunition initiative, to oppose sanctions against Russia."
ANO has already said it will scrap the initiative, which has supplied 3.5 million artillery shells to Ukraine. They want to replace it with a more transparent scheme operating within the confines of Nato.
But the party's potential coalition partners want to go further, with radical cuts to defence spending and the expulsion of Ukrainian refugees.
For the past few years, the Czech government's loyalty - to the EU, to Nato, to the defence of Ukraine – has been unwavering.
If the opinion polls are accurate, that approach will soon – at the very least – be called into question.

 
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RailUK Forums

brad465

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This has been talk for a while now, and now been suggested by Trump on Air Force One. If he did follow through you hope he remembers to send the ones that can be fired from the air, as Ukraine doesn't have a navy (hence "Russia losing its navy to a country with no navy):


US President Donald Trump is considering sending Tomahawk long-range cruise missiles to Ukraine, saying it would provide "a new step of aggression" in its war with Russia.
When asked on Air Force One if he would send Tomahawks to Ukraine, Trump replied "we'll see... I may".
It follows a second phone call at the weekend between Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, who pushed for stronger military capabilities to launch counter-attacks against Russia.
Moscow has previously warned Washington against providing long-range missiles to Kyiv, saying it would cause a major escalation in the conflict and strain US-Russian relations.
Tomahawk missiles have a range of 2,500 km (1,500 miles), which would put Moscow within reach for Ukraine.
Trump spoke to reporters as he flew to Israel. He said he would possibly speak to Russia about the Tomahawks requested by Ukraine.
"I might tell them [Russia] that if the war is not settled, that we may very well, we may not, but we may do it."
"Do they [Russia] want Tomahawks going in their direction? I don't think so," the president said.
Kyiv has made multiple requests for long-range missiles, as it weighs up striking Russian cities far from the front lines of the grinding conflict.
In their phone calls Zelensky and Trump discussed Ukraine's bid to strengthen its military capabilities, including boosting its air defences and long-range arms.
Ukrainian cities including Kyiv have come under repeated heavy Russian bombardment with drones and missiles. Russia has particularly targeted Ukraine's energy infrastructure, causing power cuts.
Last month, Trump's special envoy to Ukraine Keith Kellogg suggested the US president had authorised strikes deep into Russian territory, telling Fox News "there are no such things as sanctuaries" from attacks in the Russia-Ukraine war.
Russia, which launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, downplayed the chances of Tomahawks changing the course of the war.
Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said last month: "Whether it's Tomahawks or other missiles, they won't be able to change the dynamic."
 

Annetts key

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This has been talk for a while now, and now been suggested by Trump on Air Force One. If he did follow through you hope he remembers to send the ones that can be fired from the air, as Ukraine doesn't have a navy (hence "Russia losing its navy to a country with no navy):

I will only believe it when they ( Tomahawks) actually arrive in Ukraine.

What Trump says and what actually happens are often not the same thing. He won't even let congress pass a bill that would enable more sanctions and tariffs to be applied to Russia despite it very likely having overwhelming support in congress.

How to launch them is a valid point. The vast majority of U.S. Tomahawks are the naval version. Either designed to be launched from surface warships or from submarines.

Although the U.S. does have a programme for a ground launched system, this is relatively new and the number of the launch vehicles is thought to be low.

The older design of ground launchers were all decommissioned and said to have been scrapped many years ago.

Does the U.S. actually have any operational air launched versions?

It would make far more sense for Ukraine to be provided with AGM-158 JASSM missiles, which could be fired from the F16 aircraft that they already have.
 

Killingworth

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It would make far more sense for Ukraine to be provided with AGM-158 JASSM missiles, which could be fired from the F16 aircraft that they already have.
Are they flying the F16s?

There's a growing impression that fixed wing manned aircraft are too vulnerable to be risked near the range of the other side's defences.
 

Annetts key

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Are they flying the F16s?

There's a growing impression that fixed wing manned aircraft are too vulnerable to be risked near the range of the other side's defences.
They don't need to fly their F16 aircraft near the dangerous front line area to launch AGM-158 JASSM missiles. Although obviously the further back these cruise missiles are launched will impact of the maximum available range (they have a shorter range compared to the larger Tomahawks).
 

Mogster

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Yes. Ukraine’s F-16s appear to be heavily used as airborne drone defence. Not the sort of headline generating action that gets reported in the UK media, invaluable none the less.


Ukrainian F‑16 fighter pilots continue to employ their onboard cannons to take down Russian Shahed drones. They sometimes succeed, but it’s an extremely risky tactic for both aircraft and crews.
Ukraine is under almost daily attack by hundreds of Shahed drones. To counter them, alongside air-defense forces equipped with surface‑to‑air missiles such as ASRAAM, Sparrow or R‑73, mobile gun units armed with small arms, 23 mm autocannons, and man-portable air‑defense systems, a few (but effective) artillery systems like Gepard and Skynex, and, more recently, interceptor drones, manned aircraft are also deployed.

As the article says they could really do with APKWS or similar laser guided rockets. Although the article is a few months old, maybe they have something now.

With Denmark adding to their F35 collection that should free up some more F-16s for Ukraine.
 

PrincesWinsdor

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Yes. Ukraine’s F-16s appear to be heavily used as airborne drone defence. Not the sort of headline generating action that gets reported in the UK media, invaluable none the less.




As the article says they could really do with APKWS or similar laser guided rockets. Although the article is a few months old, maybe they have something now.

With Denmark adding to their F35 collection that should free up some more F-16s for Ukraine.
France gave some retired Mirage 2000s to Ukraine too. I know Ukraine probably received some MICA missiles but it's a pain for them that the French jets can only fire French missiles.
 

Mogster

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MICA’s still expensive though isn’t it and as such it’s hard to believe France have lots of them lying around to donate.

I think the advantage of APKWS, and other small laser guided rocket systems becoming available, is that as they aren’t fully internally guided they can be comparatively cheap per shot, <$50k as opposed to >$500K for the fully internally guided missiles. As they are small you can carry a lot also.
 

Annetts key

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My impression, rightly or wrongly, is that the small number of Mirage 2000 aircraft are being used for bombing important Russian targets using the French "smart" glide bombs.
 

PrincesWinsdor

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My impression, rightly or wrongly, is that the small number of Mirage 2000 aircraft are being used for bombing important Russian targets using the French "smart" glide bombs.
The French "smart" glide bombs can also be fitted onto Ukraine's existing aircrafts like the MiG-29, Su-24, Su-25 and Su-27.
 

brad465

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Now Trump plans to meet Putin in Hungary, which is rather apt given Orban's alignment. Also worth mentioning Orban pulled Hungary out of the ICC so don't need to arrest Putin (although the main reason for withdrawing was to benefit Netanyahu):


Trump says he will meet Putin in Hungary​

Donald Trump has just posted on Truth Social following his phone call with Vladimir Putin.

He says the call was "good and productive", adding that "high level advisors" from both countries will meet next week.

"President Putin and I will then meet in an agreed upon location, Budapest, Hungary, to see if we can bring this 'inglorious' War, between Russia and Ukraine, to an end," he says.

We'll bring you more on this shortly.
There's also an incentive for Orban to host them, as he's fighting an election next year and is struggling in polls compared to previous elections, so hosting a major summit might give him a boost. It could also backfire though if enough of the home population disapprove of Trump and Putin.
 

brad465

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Now looks like the Hungary meeting has been postponed indefinitely; apparently a call between Rubio and Lavrov was enough (or one upset the other enough to abandon a full meeting):


There are "no plans" for US President Donald Trump to meet Russia's Vladimir Putin "in the immediate future", a White House official has stated.
Last Thursday Trump said he and the Russian president would hold talks in Budapest within two weeks to discuss the war in Ukraine.
A preparatory meeting between US Secretary of State Marco Rubio and his Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov was due to be held this week - but the White House said the two had had a "productive" call and that a meeting was no longer "necessary".
The White House did not share any more details on why the talks had been put on hold.
Trump had discussed a Budapest summit over the phone with Putin, a day before meeting Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelensky in the White House.
Some reports suggested his talks with Zelensky had been a "shouting match", with sources suggesting Trump had pushed him to give up large areas of territory in eastern Ukraine as part of a deal with Russia.
However, on Monday Trump embraced a ceasefire proposal backed by Kyiv and European leaders to freeze the conflict on the current front line.
"Let it be cut the way it is," he said.
Russia has repeatedly pushed back against freezing the current line of contact.
Moscow was only interested in "long-term, sustainable peace", Lavrov said on Tuesday, implying that freezing the front line would only amount to a temporary ceasefire.
The "root causes of the conflict" needed to be addressed, Lavrov said, using Kremlin shorthand for a series of maximalist demands that include the recognition of full Russian sovereignty over the Donbas as well as the demilitarisation of Ukraine – a non-starter for Kyiv and its European partners.
Zelensky said discussions about the front line were the "beginning of diplomacy" but that Russia was "doing everything to avoid diplomacy".
He also said the only topic that could make Moscow "pay attention" was that of the supply of long-range weapons to Ukraine.
Putin's unscheduled call with Trump last Thursday came ahead of speculation that the US was preparing to send long-range Tomahawk missiles to Ukraine that could potentially strike deep into Russia.
Zelensky said it was the Tomahawks issue that had forced Russia to engage in discussion. The talk about the missiles had turned out to be a "strong investment in diplomacy", he added.
 

OhNoAPacer

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Russia said on Wednesday it had carried out a major training exercise involving nuclear weapons, a day after the United States announced a delay in plans for a second summit between presidents Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump.

The Kremlin released video showing general Valery Gerasimov, head of the general staff, reporting to Putin on the drills. They included practice launches of intercontinental ballistic missiles, which are capable of striking the United States.

At key moments in the war in Ukraine, Putin has frequently issued reminders of Russia’s nuclear might as a warning signal to Kyiv and its allies in the West. Nato has also been conducting nuclear deterrence exercises this month.


Above taken from Guardian App.

Putin shaking the nuclear missiles is starting to get boring.
 

EYFanatic

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Now Trump plans to meet Putin in Hungary, which is rather apt given Orban's alignment. Also worth mentioning Orban pulled Hungary out of the ICC so don't need to arrest Putin (although the main reason for withdrawing was to benefit Netanyahu)
The arrest warrant was issued whilst Hungary was in the ICC and so (in theory) should still be obligated to detain Putin until 2 June 2026 according to the statute though in reality I rather doubt it
 

najaB

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Seems that some intern must have flipped the wrong switch at a Moscow area power station. Completely unrelated to drone activity in the vicinity, of course.
Residents of the Moscow region reported power outages on the evening of October 31, according to local Telegram channels.

Residents in the area reported that the lights in their homes and on the streets began to go out in the evening.

Local media are publishing videos showing darkened streets.

They also wrote that the power outage occurred due to an emergency situation in the power grid.

Earlier, local social media channels had reported information about unidentified drones approaching the Russian capital.
 

brad465

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There are reports Lavrov may have fallen out of favour with Putin (which if true means that won't be the only falling out of something Lavrov will experience):


Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov appears to have fallen out of favor in the Kremlin following a failed call with US Secretary of State Marco Rubio that led to the cancellation of a planned summit between Russian leader Vladimir Putin and US President Donald Trump, The Moscow Times reported on November 6.

Lavrov, 76, who has headed the foreign ministry for over two decades, was notably absent from a key Security Council meeting on November 5, where Putin discussed reviving nuclear tests last conducted in 1990. Sources told Kommersant that Lavrov’s absence was “coordinated,” though he was the only permanent member missing from the session.

The veteran diplomat has also been removed as head of Russia’s delegation to this year’s G20 summit, a position now assigned to presidential aide Maxim Oreshkin, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov confirmed. Putin, meanwhile, will skip the summit in South Africa, where he faces an International Criminal Court arrest warrant, The Moscow Times wrote.

The shake-up follows Lavrov’s October 21 phone conversation with Rubio, intended to prepare the Trump–Putin meeting in Budapest. However, Rubio reportedly urged Trump to cancel the summit. Shortly afterward, Washington imposed new sanctions on Rosneft and Lukoil—the first since Trump’s return to the White House.

Previously, it was repoted that the United States has canceled a planned Budapest summit between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin after Moscow refused to soften its territorial demands regarding Ukraine, the Financial Times (FT) reported.

According to the report, the decision followed a tense phone call between US Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, during which Washington concluded that Moscow was unwilling to negotiate.
 

brad465

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If Starmer wants a popularity boost, maybe sinking this vessel would do it:


A Russian spy ship is on the edge of UK waters north of Scotland and has pointed lasers at pilots of surveillance aircraft monitoring its activities, the defence secretary has said.
Speaking at a press conference in Downing Street, John Healey said it was the second time in a year that the Yantar had entered UK waters.
The ship is "designed for gathering intelligence and mapping our undersea cables", Healey told journalists.
"My message to Russia and to Putin is this: we see you. We know what you're doing. And if the Yantar travels south this week, we are ready," he added.
Giving more details on the vessel, Healey said: "It is part of a Russian fleet designed to put and hold our undersea infrastructure and those of our allies at risk.
"It isn't just a naval operation. It's part of a Russian programme driven by what they call the Main Directorate of Deep-Sea Research, or GUGI, and this is designed to have capabilities which can undertake surveillance in peacetime and sabotage in conflict.
"That is why we've been determined, whenever the Yantar comes into British wider waters, we track it, we deter it and we say to Putin we are ready, and we do that alongside allies."
He said this was a demonstration of Britain's capability and "readiness to act".
The defence secretary issued a warning in January about the ship after it was spotted in UK waters.
At his Downing Street press conference, he said this was the first time Yantar had used lasers in an effort to "disrupt" RAF pilots, which he described as a "deeply dangerous" and something the UK took "very seriously".
He said he had changed the Royal Navy's rules of engagement so that it could follow the Yantar more closely "when it's in our wider waters".
"We have military options ready should the Yantar change course. I am not going to reveal those because that only makes President Putin wiser," he said.
The Ministry of Defence has come under criticism from a committee of MPs for being over-reliant on US defence resources and not being prepared to defend the UK and its overseas territories from military attack.
The committee said the UK and its European allies should be building up their capabilities to prepare for potential US withdrawal.
Healey said the UK government "takes a different view" to the committee about America's commitment to Nato.
"The strength of Nato is not just about the defence of Europe. it's about the defence of America too," he told reporters.
But he said the committee was "right to say" Britain should "pick up the pace of our commitment" and that was something Labour has been doing since it came to power last year.

Defence talks ongoing​

The report comes as British negotiators race to agree a deal with the EU to enable British defence companies to contribute to projects funded by a new €150bn (£130bn) EU defence loan scheme set to launch next year.
The Labour government wants to conclude a deal in the coming weeks to allow British companies to take part in the first round of bids from EU countries, with applications due by the end of this month.
Healey told reporters the UK wanted to be part of the programme, but not "at any price", amid reports the two sides are at odds over the entry fee the UK could pay to enable British firms to take part.
He added that any financial contribution to take part would have to be "good value for money for our taxpayers and our industry".
 

Bletchleyite

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If Starmer wants a popularity boost, maybe sinking this vessel would do it:

If it's not in UK waters then that would be a clear act of war and would effectively amount to a declaration of war between the UK and Russia, which would not be a good thing and, due to the risk of nuclear escalation, is not supported by the population as a whole.
 

brad465

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If it's not in UK waters then that would be a clear act of war and would effectively amount to a declaration of war between the UK and Russia, which would not be a good thing and, due to the risk of nuclear escalation, is not supported by the population as a whole.
What about when the ship is pointing lasers at RAF pilots?
 

Annetts key

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If it's not in UK waters then that would be a clear act of war and would effectively amount to a declaration of war between the UK and Russia, which would not be a good thing and, due to the risk of nuclear escalation, is not supported by the population as a whole.
Let's not have yet another discussion on the potential use of nuclear weapons. Even if the U.K. did take military action against a Russian ship in international waters, the chances of it escalating to a nuclear war with Russia are lower than you winning the national lottery ten times in a row.

Besides which, this is a theoretical exercise, as these confrontations often happen multiple times a year so the Royal Navy knows how to handle them. And therefore they know what is permitted and what is lawful.

And the Russians also know the law.

If a Russian ship did enter U.K. waters and was damaged or sank due to being attacked by our forces, you would hear a lot of hot air from Russia. But it would not start a war.
 

Yew

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Sinking a ship with attendant deaths is orders of magnitude bigger. As I said, it would amount to a declaration of war.
The Russians downed an American drone a while back, are Russia and the US at war?
 

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