Eurostar orders new double-deck train fleet

[Class172]

Eurostar orders first double-decker trains

They would be the first two-level high-speed trains to run through the Channel Tunnel.

www.bbc.co.uk

Eurostar has revealed plans to run double-decker trains through the Channel Tunnel for the first time.

The cross-Channel rail operator has confirmed it will order up to 50 trains from manufacturer Alstom, eventually increasing the size of its fleet by nearly a third.

The expansion plans would include investing heavily in a crucial London depot, it said.

But questions remain over whether the facility has enough space for both Eurostar and potential rival operators to use it.

In the €2bn (£1.74bn) deal, confirmed on Wednesday, Eurostar has ordered 30 "Celestia" trains, with the option for 20 more.

Each train would be 200m long. If two were run together, as happens currently, the resulting 400m service would have about 1,080 seats.

These would be the first double-decker high-speed trains to run through the Channel Tunnel.

The only other double-decker to ever appear on Britain's railways was an experiment that began in 1949.

Eurostar's chief executive Gwendoline Cazenave said she was "particularly proud to bring double-decker trains to the UK for the very first time", adding they would bring "exceptional comfort".

Eurostar carried 19.5 million passengers last year. Ms Cazenove said the company aimed to grow this number to 30 million.

The firm said a fleet of new trains, some of which will replace older ones, will lead to a 30% increase in trains that service London.

The double-decker train deal comes after Eurostar announced an expansion plan in June that includes new routes to Geneva and Frankfurt from London.

...article continues

 

[signed]

I wonder why it took them 6 months to actually announce the order (the order was suggested by Eurostar back at roughly begining of the year)

 

[StephenHunter]

I hope the headroom on the upper deck is decent. I've banged my head a couple of times on trains like that and I'm 179cm!

 

[stadler]

Eurostar orders first double-decker trains

They would be the first two-level high-speed trains to run through the Channel Tunnel.

www.bbc.co.uk

A shame they are going for double deck stock. I hate double deck trains. They always feel far more cramped and less spacious than normal single deck trains. Also they are much poorer for accessibility.

Surely it would have made sense to simply order some more Siemens Velaro Class 374 trains. That would make far more sense from both an operational and maintenance perspective. It would allow for one simple common fleet. They are also reliable trains.

 

[Citybreak1]

These trains are quite good in Europe but not as much room upstairs and the seats are never really that comfortable. Seems it’s about passenger numbers rather than comfort.

The Siemens trains are better despite what some say. DB run these and I am excited to hear Uber are wanting to order 8 or so of these. Not really impressed by the Virgin tilting trains.

Given the E300 is similar interior I think this will be a downgrade on comfort. But it’s good to see double decker trains in UK.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Oct 2025 ==

A shame they are going for double deck stock. I hate double deck trains. They always feel far more cramped and less spacious than normal single deck trains. Also they are much poorer for accessibility.

Surely it would have made sense to simply order some more Siemens Velaro Class 374 trains. That would make far more sense from both an operational and maintenance perspective. It would allow for one simple common fleet. They are also reliable trains.

Yep I agree especially as Uber have done down this route. Only positive is there will be choice. Ubers Siemens will only run from Stratford though.

 

[Amalie]

I’ve read some concerns/discussions on the Dutch railway forums about how double decker trains are potentially too heavy for the Dutch high speed line. If that’s true, then that would mean that deployment of these trains would be limited to the UK, France, Belgium, Germany and other future countries.

 

[StephenHunter]

I’ve read some concerns/discussions on the Dutch railway forums about how double decker trains are potentially too heavy for the Dutch high speed line. If that’s true, then that would mean that deployment of these trains would be limited to the UK, France, Belgium, Germany and other future countries.

Haven't the Dutch used double deckers for decades?

 

[Citybreak1]

Haven't the Dutch used double deckers for decades?

Yes I went on one from Rotterdam to Amsterdam

 

[rvdborgt]

Haven't the Dutch used double deckers for decades?

Not on the high-speed lines.

 

[Amalie]

Haven't the Dutch used double deckers for decades?

Definitely, but the high speed line has its own requirements. A huge part of the country is on soft soil which limits the speed of trains, especially if they’re heavy. For the high speed line built on polders, this can be even more restrictive.

Now they could just run it solely on conventional tracks, but I presume they wouldn’t then even bother with certification at that point. That being said, that is all hearsay and I would be delighted to be proven wrong.

 

[FOH]

Great to see they're articulated like the e300s. Hopefully they'll get rid of the e320 bone shakers, hateful things. With very limited stops this order makes so much sense to be double decker.

 

[Austriantrain]

Not surprisingly going the SNCF way. Maximizing capacity and then certainly reducing frequency.

Competition cannot come fast enough, even though E* will certainly fight it tooth and nail.

 

[bahnause]

I’ve read some concerns/discussions on the Dutch railway forums about how double decker trains are potentially too heavy for the Dutch high speed line. If that’s true, then that would mean that deployment of these trains would be limited to the UK, France, Belgium, Germany and other future countries.

Alstom has been manufacturing double-decker trains capable of reaching speeds of up to 320 km/h with low axle loads for many years.

 

[Austriantrain]

Definitely, but the high speed line has its own requirements. A huge part of the country is on soft soil which limits the speed of trains, especially if they’re heavy. For the high speed line built on polders, this can be even more restrictive.

Now they could just run it solely on conventional tracks, but I presume they wouldn’t then even bother with certification at that point. That being said, that is all hearsay and I would be delighted to be proven wrong.

Well, there should be plenty enough 374 with decades of life in them to still being able to serve Amsterdam.

 

[MisterT]

I’ve read some concerns/discussions on the Dutch railway forums about how double decker trains are potentially too heavy for the Dutch high speed line. If that’s true, then that would mean that deployment of these trains would be limited to the UK, France, Belgium, Germany and other future countries.

It all depends on axle load. As long as they keep the train in class C2 (up to 20 t per axle), there will be no restrictions. I believe the current Duplex trains are around 17t, so I don't think it will be an issue.
Higher is possible, but speed restrictions might be imposed, although exemptions can be made depending on the routes cleared.
The reason NS didn't order double decker trains was that, at the time the ICNG trains were tendered, a double decker train with door entrances at platform level didn't exist for 200 km/h trains and after the Fyra debacle they didn't want to risk a untrialled train design (that they ended up with an untrialled train anyway was, erm, unfortunate, to say the least).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

This order will be for both halves of Eurostar - blue (Channel Tunnel) and red (PBKA).
While some will be on services to the UK, I imagine they are mostly to replace the ex-Thalys TGV fleet.
They will probably see off the class 373s on UK services.

 

[Phillipimo]

They must have specified a very low density interior. The BBC article states 1080 seats on a 400m train. SNCF claim 740 for a 200m latest generation TGV M, so 1480 seats for a 400m train.

1080 seats is not much more than the 902 of a class 374 (e320).

 

[Citybreak1]

Well, there should be plenty enough 374 with decades of life in them to still being able to serve Amsterdam.

So they would have to order something else if they wanted to run new trains to Amsterdam? How would that work if they mention ordering an extra 20 trains which won’t even work to Holland?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Oct 2025 ==

They must have specified a very low density interior. The BBC article states 1080 seats on a 400m train. SNCF claim 740 for a 200m latest generation TGV M, so 1480 seats for a 400m train.

1080 seats is not much more than the 902 of a class 374 (e320).

So hardly any extra space why order double decker trains then

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Oct 2025 ==

This order will be for both halves of Eurostar - blue (Channel Tunnel) and red (PBKA).
While some will be on services to the UK, I imagine they are mostly to replace the ex-Thalys TGV fleet.
They will probably see off the class 373s on UK services.

Why did they not split the order new Siemens aswell for Amsterdam like Uber? All that will happen is Uber have better trains to Holland

 

[Austriantrain]

So they would have to order something else if they wanted to run new trains to Amsterdam? How would that work if they mention ordering an extra 20 trains which won’t even work to Holland.

You are right. On Paris - Amsterdam, they will need to use the DD stock. I was thinking about London - Amsterdam. My mistake.

 

[Welly]

Pity about the all over grey livery - good graff canvas as long as the windows are not obscured!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

This is in the Guardian report on the order:

Eurostar to run doubledecker trains through Channel tunnel from 2031

Operator signs €2bn deal with Alstom amid boom in international rail travel from UK

www.theguardian.com

The chief executive of manufacturer Alstom, Henri Poupart-Lafarge, said: “This new-generation train, designed to meet the demands of international very high-speed traffic, embodies our vision of sustainable and competitive European mobility.”
The trains will be able to operate throughout Eurostar’s network, including to its planned destinations of Frankfurt and Geneva. It will phase out its older trains, bar the 17 latest e320s, making its total fleet about 30% bigger once all 50 trains are delivered.

 

[Trainbike46]

So this order is replacing the e300s (11), the PBA (9) and the PBKA (17). That is 48 200m equivalent trains being replaced by 30 new trains, or at most 50 if all options are used.

I also think it's odd they state all maintenance will be at temple mills.

 

[NCT]

Alstom's press release

Eurostar chooses Alstom for 30 Avelia Horizon very high-speed trains

This optional tranche of the framework contract between SNCF Voyageurs and Alstom represents an amount of close to 1.4 billion euros

www.alstom.com

 

[TheGrew]

I think it is interesting that they are opting for double-deckers but not increasing the seat count much. I wonder if they are going for a more upmarket vibe with more space for luggage/people rather than increasing capacity substantially.

 

[brad465]

I think it is interesting that they are opting for double-deckers but not increasing the seat count much. I wonder if they are going for a more upmarket vibe with more space for luggage/people rather than increasing capacity substantially.

Double-decker trains AIUI don't actually increase seat capacity much, presumably because the many staircases that have to be put in take up extra space.

 

[fandroid]

Is the Celestia anything like the double deck TGVs used on the Lyria services to Switzerland? I have travelled top deck on those twice in recent years and thoroughly enjoyed the experience.

I think that Brits will love the top deck experience and start lobbying for them on the UK lines that they'll fit on (HS1 and HS2).

 

[Trainbike46]

As I understand it, between 20% and 50% uplift is typical for a double-decker compared to a single decker.

However the PBA and PBKA sets ate vastly short on luggage space, so a more limited uplift in seat capacity while offering a larger uplift in luggage capacity makes sense.

 

[John R]

Given what airlines will do to squeeze a handful of extra seats in, I’m not sure a 20% uplift in seating is as small as people are suggesting.

 

[175mph]

Is the Celestia anything like the double deck TGVs used on the Lyria services to Switzerland? I have travelled top deck on those twice in recent years and thoroughly enjoyed the experience.

I think that Brits will love the top deck experience and start lobbying for them on the UK lines that they'll fit on (HS1 and HS2).

A while ago, I asked on another thread about the possibility of double deck stock on HS1 domestic services and was told it should be possible except for the problem that many of the services deviate onto the older lines.

 

[brooklynbound]

Surely the most important issue is that Channel Tunnel Eurostars carry far more luggage than double deck TGV's day-in, day-out. The nightmare of groups with huge amounts of luggage trying to get up and down the stairs!