Off-Peak to Anytime Excess Requirements

[gabrielhj07]

Earlier today I held an Off-Peak Day Return, Kings Langley - Strawberry Hill, restriction code PS.

For various reasons I ended up making the return portion of the journey after 1600. The restriction code states:

Return Travel​

Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 09:30 and trains timed to depart after 16:00 and before 19:00,

I therefore expected to have to excess at least the return portion of the ticket for the cost of an Anytime one.

Neither the Waterloo nor Euston ticket offices were interested in offering advice, and in both cases directed me to somebody else. Latterly I was sent to the LNWR guard, who gave words to the effect of 'just get on, it'll be fine'. This would seem to be contrary to the requirements of NRCoT 9.5, specifically:

9.5 Where you:

9.5.1 are using a time-restricted Ticket (such as an “off-peak” or “super-off-peak”
Ticket) that is correctly dated but invalid for the service on which you are
travelling;

you will be charged the difference between the fare that you have paid and the lowest
price Ticket that is valid for the train you are using.

I wonder if somebody with the right knowledge would be able to tell me:
a) Whether or not I should have paid an excess for this journey, and if not;
b) What is meant by the Off-Peak restriction in this context.

 

[Hadders]

You should have been sold an excess fare which would be the difference in cost between the Off Peak Day Return and the Anytime Day Return.

There is no penalty for buying this onboard. Excess fares are notoriously difficult to obtain, and it is often necessary to 'shop around'.

 

[gabrielhj07]

Thanks Hadders.

I'd sort of assumed that both ticket offices had filed it in the 'not my problem' category.

 

[Hadders]

It is a bit concerning when the ticket offices at two of the largest railway stations in the country cannot sell an off-peak to Anytime excess.

 

[sheff1]

It is a bit concerning when the ticket offices at two of the largest railway stations in the country cannot sell an off-peak to Anytime excess.

Indeed and a far cry from when I required such excesses a few times at Euston where they were always issued without any problem{I am talking of a period of a couple of years 34/35 years ago).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed and a far cry from when I required such excesses a few times at Euston where they were always issued without any problem{I am talking of a period of a couple of years 34/35 years ago).

I remember the old Silverlink booking office by the 8-11 gateline knowing perfectly well about these. They also knew off the top of their heads when a separate Railcard discounted single rather than an excess was cheaper, which it sometimes was. I've not tried at the upstairs booking office as I've not needed an excess there since the Silverlink one closed, which was more than a little while ago!

For future reference, that journey is an Oval journey and is thus single fare priced, so to avoid the hassle you might as well just purchase each leg when you know what time you're travelling, or indeed if you don't hold a Railcard just use contactless. Also, a ticket type excess changes the whole ticket, so if you use singles you will pay less than excessing a return (unlike a route excess). The only reason to do otherwise would be if using a Network Railcard where the £13 minimum fare applies to the whole ticket, though on that one the discount will only be a couple of quid as against the risk of having to pay much more for the excess and the hassle of getting it.

 

[Hadders]

I remember the old Silverlink booking office by the 8-11 gateline knowing perfectly well about these. They also knew off the top of their heads when a separate Railcard discounted single rather than an excess was cheaper, which it sometimes was. I've not tried at the upstairs booking office as I've not needed an excess there since the Silverlink one closed, which was more than a little while ago!

For future reference, that journey is an Oval journey and is thus single fare priced, so to avoid the hassle you might as well just purchase each leg when you know what time you're travelling, or indeed if you don't hold a Railcard just use contactless.

The ticket office adjacent to platforms 8-11 closed in 2021. It wasn't Silverlink who closed it, it was WMT!

We had a thread about it at the time because the closure had to be delayed due the consultation process was not be correctly followed....

LNR (WMT) ticket office at Euston to close

The London Northwestern ticket office at Euston is close. From London TravelWatch https://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/news/view?id=865&x[0]=news/list/ Passengers will still be able to use the other ticket office at Euston operated by Avanti West Coast to buy tickets and make enquiries (except...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[JonathanH]

This is one of the perils of the Project Oval PAYG roll out, introducing evening peak restrictions on loads of flows which were once unrestricted in the evening. If people are going to maintain a mindset of buying off-peak day returns and find themselves needing to return in the afternoon peak period ticket office staff are going to have to ensure they can issue the excess fares.

However, in this case the original poster may have been better served having bought an off-peak day travelcard in the first instance with no afternoon peak restriction.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is one of the perils of the Project Oval PAYG roll out, introducing evening peak restrictions on loads of flows which were once unrestricted in the evening. If people are going to maintain a mindset of buying off-peak day returns and find themselves needing to return in the afternoon peak period ticket office staff are going to have to ensure they can issue the excess fares.

However, in this case the original poster may have been better served having bought an off-peak day travelcard increases the first instance with no afternoon peak restriction.

Or simply purchasing singles, which unless using a Network Railcard midweek (£13 minimum discounted fare) would cost no more than a return, and in the case of travelling in one direction peak and the other off peak would cost less than the excess which is on the full ticket. If midweek the Network Railcard minimum fare may indeed make that Travelcard a good bet.

 

[JonathanH]

Or simply purchasing singles, which unless using a Network Railcard midweek (£13 minimum discounted fare) would cost no more than a return, and in the case of travelling in one direction peak and the other off peak would cost less than the excess which is on the full ticket.

Yes, although if going via Euston, the off-peak travelcard is less than the price of an off-peak day single in one direction and an anytime day single in the other for this, and many other flows.

 

[gabrielhj07]

However, in this case the original poster may have been better served having bought an off-peak day travelcard increases the first instance with no afternoon peak restriction.

This would retrospectively have been a good idea.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, although if going via Euston, the off-peak travelcard is less than the price of an off-peak day single in one direction and an anytime day single in the other for this, and many other flows.

Nothing like a bit of simplification, is there?

(There's another one in that the ticket you want to purchase if travelling from Euston to Bletchley in the evening peak is not a ticket from Euston to Bletchley; I'll not say what it is in case a game of whack-a-mole ensues, though it's not hard to guess. The saving is under a quid with a Network Railcard, though).

Having said that, Travelcards being cheaper than point to point Anytime Day Return fares to places within the Zones isn't unusual. I travelled for work a few years back two days a week to East Croydon, and the Travelcard was not only cheaper than the fare via Euston, but also cheaper than via Kensington Olympia, and of course offers both routes.