Incident at crewe tonight - atw

[Flamingo]

Doors get locked 30/40 seconds before departure, to ensure the wheels are rolling at the correct time. This is well advertised. This has become more important since the imposition of fines (by the department) for poor punctuality, anything over three minutes costs money so seconds count. This is something that was imposed to hold the nasty TOC's to account.

I'd rather give good customer service to the passengers who managed to make it to the train on-time and want to get to their destination. On a 22.12 departure, there may be passengers who are hoping to catch their last connecting bus. If they miss that by 30 seconds because the train was held, that is not good customer service to them, especially if they WERE on time.

Once doors have been locked, they can only be unlocked in an emergency. A late-running passenger (even if it IS the last train) does not count as an emergency.

However, shouting oujt the window the equivelant of "na na na na na!" at the passenger is not a good idea, apart from anything else, the platform staff are now going to have to deal with an even more irate person.

But the bottom line is, the guy with the bags missed the train. It should not have been held for him, and most certainly should not have been stopped for him.

Edited to add: As regards reporting it - leave that to the guy who it was shouted at. If he's not bothered enough to, why should the OP? (I believe the phrase I'm looking for is "mind your own business"). It's not safety, and it's not your mother it was shouted at.

 

[notadriver]

Just out of interest were you guard in charge of the train or in direct contact with the guard, as you state RA had been given did you know if RA had been passed on to driver.
Would she or her husband have been so grateful if she had been dragged to her death as she fell from a moving train.
If you were not guard incharge of the train platform staff would be right to report you.

Although it was my train and I was the guard in charge, trains are despatched by platform staff using CD/RA. The RA had not been given when I opened the door as we didn't have interlock.Sorry I didn't make that clear. RA was given after I reclosed the drivers cab door.

 

[TDK]

Hello,

Now I'm not normally one to moan, but some thoughts from those in the industry would be nice.

Stood at Crewe station waiting for the 22:18 to Wigan, there was the 22:12 atw in the platform (6) to Shrewsbury. It pulled out the station at 22:11:54, ok 6 seconds early, that's not my problem / what I'm moaning about. A guy with 4 what I can only describe as green bin bags and a ruck sack ran down the stairs. Of course the doors had closed and stuff, but the conductor was hanging out the back window as it pulled off and shouted 'byeeeee' to him. Witnessed by a member of Virgin staff called Gordon stood at my side who said 'that is shocking'.

Although I do realise I'm probably going to get someone into trouble for this, would other people on here also report such a thing or is it common behaviour at night on the railways?

Hats off to the Virgin staff too - they went and looked for him at an office to see when the next train was for him!

Thoughts?

I would imagine it should be down to the man who missed the train to report it, if it was you that was treated in this wey then yes, report it. However I do not have sympathy for people who are late for a train even by 30 seconds as the railway and any other transport should be run to a strict timetable.

This man I don't suppose he was the the mobile cleaner was he? If so the statement by the guard may hve been just in jest as he may have known him?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As I happened to be in the back cab I opened the drivers door and let her in. She was extremely grateful. Station supervisor told me he'd report me and demanded my name. As RA had been given I waved to him as we left the station

Although it was my train and I was the guard in charge, trains are despatched by platform staff using CD/RA. The RA had not been given when I opened the door as we didn't have interlock.Sorry I didn't make that clear. RA was given after I reclosed the drivers cab door.

A bit conflicting here notadriver however if the case was the latter and not the former there isn't a problem if the RA had not been given, if it had then you know the score.

 

[NightatLaira]

Read the post again, train left 6 seconds early which is perfectly acceptable and the guard did nothing wrong in leaving the passenger behind.

Making fun of the passenger is un-necessary and pretty stupid whatever way you look at it but is hardly a capital crime, either way he had missed the train.

If I was platform staff there I'd be having words with the guard next time I saw him, winding someone up and leaving another staff member to deal with the consequences for no good reason is no way to behave.

fair point - i did misread it originally...

 

[daikilo]

Doors get locked 30/40 seconds before departure, to ensure the wheels are rolling at the correct time. This is well advertised. This has become more important since the imposition of fines (by the department) for poor punctuality, anything over three minutes costs money so seconds count. This is something that was imposed to hold the nasty TOC's to account.

I'd rather give good customer service to the passengers who managed to make it to the train on-time and want to get to their destination. On a 22.12 departure, there may be passengers who are hoping to catch their last connecting bus. If they miss that by 30 seconds because the train was held, that is not good customer service to them, especially if they WERE on time.

Once doors have been locked, they can only be unlocked in an emergency. A late-running passenger (even if it IS the last train) does not count as an emergency.

However, shouting oujt the window the equivelant of "na na na na na!" at the passenger is not a good idea, apart from anything else, the platform staff are now going to have to deal with an even more irate person.

But the bottom line is, the guy with the bags missed the train. It should not have been held for him, and most certainly should not have been stopped for him.

Edited to add: As regards reporting it - leave that to the guy who it was shouted at. If he's not bothered enough to, why should the OP? (I believe the phrase I'm looking for is "mind your own business"). It's not safety, and it's not your mother it was shouted at.

If an 0900 departure will have its doors locked at say 0859:20 then it is an 0959 departure for the customer and for the the relavant minutes for connecting allowances. Discipline please.

 

[Flamingo]

If an 0900 departure will have its doors locked at say 0859:20 then it is an 0959 departure for the customer and for the the relavant minutes for connecting allowances. Discipline please.

?

What are you on about? If it is advertised as an 21:00:00 departure it should have dispatch procedure started 20:59:30, door locking may be within a second or two of the tip being given depending on what situation the doors are in at the stage the first tip is given. If a HST, the doors should all be closed before the tip is given, so they will instantly be locked by the guard when the tip is given by the platform staff.

Passengers running along the platform are NOT a reason to halt dispatch (although given that they will only get in the way, dispatch may be held for them - delaying everybody on the train).

There are signs all over every manned station I work through saying that doors will be locked 30 seconds before departure.

 

[exile]

It used to drive me nuts when I would be running across the bridge from Hunts Cross, the Merseyrail train would leave (admittedly on time and not early) and would then be held at the junction 500m down the line for the train I'd just left!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Does the working timetable still have departures at, for instance, 17.24½ for precisely this reason? If not, when did they stop doing that?

 

[Flamingo]

Never seen a working timetable saying 1/2, and we have been told that in all cases, use the published timetable times.

 

[daikilo]

?

What are you on about? If it is advertised as an 21:00:00 departure it should have dispatch procedure started 20:59:30, door locking may be within a second or two of the tip being given depending on what situation the doors are in at the stage the first tip is given. If a HST, the doors should all be closed before the tip is given, so they will instantly be locked by the guard when the tip is given by the platform staff.

Passengers running along the platform are NOT a reason to halt dispatch (although given that they will only get in the way, dispatch may be held for them - delaying everybody on the train).

There are signs all over every manned station I work through saying that doors will be locked 30 seconds before departure.

What I am on about is that notwithstanding the notices, if the departure sequence for the 2100 starts at 2059:20 or 2059:30, so be it, but the passenger must be suitably advised before their arival that boarding will cease at say 2059, and not a 2100.

When I take planes I check what is the latest check-in time and work to that. It is not a problem, is published on the ticket, and I have missed a few.

 

[Flamingo]

Passengers are advised of this. Posters are up on every station. What else would you suggest?

 

[150222]

I remember a driver on the caldervale line who used to wait and in some cases stop for late runners. The guard always let them on. I have not encountered this again for about 10 years as i suspect (s)he got a good telling off.

 

[headshot119]

Passengers are advised of this. Posters are up on every station. What else would you suggest?

I got off the 18:40 departure from London Euston at Crewe last Saturday, it was running about 9 late.

My advance ticket says I'm booked onto a specific train at crew I believe the 21:23, why at 21:21:30 is the dispatch being started, and the train leaving the platform before 21:23?

No where when I booked on trainline was it made clear that doors close early.

 

[Flamingo]

The trainline is only interested in selling a ticket.

No idea in that incident, depends on what watch was being used. We've all be issued with radio-controlled ones.

 

[455refurb]

I'm currently pursuing a complaint with a TOC about a train that left a station 2m30s early, self-dispatched by the guard/conductor. Due to a severely delayed incoming connection by another TOC, I missed it when I should have just caught it, and my journey was further disrupted.

The initial reply from CS was that they understood it was "frustrating" the train had departed early, but offered no explanation. I have escalated the complaint, because even if there was a genuine operational reason I would still like an explanation.

I see it happen a lot at this particular station but it's the first time it really caused me inconvenience.

 

[Flamingo]

Probably because someone had their watch set wrong (or here's a possibility - you did?)

Did you get home? If yes, then I would suggest you get over it. Life's too short.

 

[mullin]

Woah, didn't expect to come back from work to 4 pages of conversation.

As said I'm not fussed about the train leaving 'early', I've seen it everywhere too that doors close 30 seconds before departure - is it not 2 minutes at Euston? I have noticed there on the main concourse that trains can 'vanish' from the boards on the main concourse between 2-3 minutes before their departure time.

There's a comment posted further back [sorry, can't think who from now] which pretty much says it wasn't myself who the guard said 'byeeeeeee' to, so if the other guy from the platform complains to ATW, then I wish him all the best! I won't take this further as I only witnessed it - at least I was waiting on the platform for my train

 

[whhistle]

All it needs is a quiet word with the guard, nothing more. It's hardly the end of the world.
O L Leigh

Wise words from a wise man.

I do find it funny though, that's the kind of thing I expect to see in a comedy programme. I'm not saying I can't see the "not great customer service" element to the situation, it certainly wasn't the best choice of word to use. But as O L Leigh says, it wasn't the end of the world and will hopefully (slowly) teach people to stop rushing in life and take more time.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Why do people find it so hard to use official channels?, if you want to complain, fine I have no problem with it but use the official channels and not the forums, this is not the place for it.

 

[tirphil]

Does the working timetable still have departures at, for instance, 17.24½ for precisely this reason? If not, when did they stop doing that?

No WTT does not show 1/2 minutes anymore to my knowledge. I cannot help as to when this practice finished either.

But, I know of at least three routes where the WTT for a passenger service is later than the Public timetable.

To give an example Public timetable posted on the station will show trains leaving at, lets say xx15 and xx45, but the WTT as shown on the drivers/guards schedule cards will show departure times of xx16 and xx46. This is to allow time for platform and dispatch duties (amongst other things)

 

[ralphchadkirk]

The WTT certainly does still use half minutes, whether or not it is printed on the paper is another thing, but they exist are are used in VPR.

 

[tirphil]

Thanks. My knowledge has been updated!!!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Thanks. My knowledge has been updated!!!

Half minutes are not shown on the PTT or PIS systems though.

 

[TDK]

There is one thing that most of you are missing here - if a train leaves late and subsequently dleays another TOC's service and it is the fault of the late train the TOC will be fined, these fines can ammount to quite a lot. I had a pass com pulled on me approaching New Street a few years back and although my train was delayed by 3 minutes 112 minutes was accumulated and at £70 -110 per minute this is expensive. You also have your path, if you say arrive at a junction even 1 minute late you could loose this path and therefore become delayed by further and this in turn delays other services. So, if a train does leave on time and you just miss it you should have left yourself enough time to be on the platform before the departure time.

If a train leaves 2 minutes early well this is grounds to complain but if you was sitting on that train you would have been happy, arriving 2 minutes before departure time is cutting it fine to be honest.

 

[WelshBluebird]

The problem here isn't that the train left a tad early, it was simply the guards attitude / behaviour. There is no way you can defend that really. If the guard does say anything, I would expect it to be a "sorry you're too late" rather than taking the mick.

In the case the of things like what 455refurb posted on the previous page, I do not see any justification for that at all. Closing the doors a minute / 30 seconds early is one thing. Leaving 2 and a half minutes early is another.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

The problem here isn't that the train left a tad early, it was simply the guards attitude / behaviour. There is no way you can defend that really. If the guard does say anything, I would expect it to be a "sorry you're too late" rather than taking the mick.

In the case the of things like what 455refurb posted on the previous page, I do not see any justification for that at all. Closing the doors a minute / 30 seconds early is one thing. Leaving 2 and a half minutes early is another.

like what has already been said a word in his ear would have sufficed instead of another trial by forum

 

[northwichcat]

One thing we don't know is why this guy arrived late or what journey he was making. If he was delayed on a previous service and was rushing to make that train then he probably wouldn't take to kindly to any suggestion that he arrived too late as he obviously was trying to get to the platform as fast as he could.

The train in question is not the last Shrewsbury service or even the last train to call at intermediate stations between Crewe and Shrewsbury.

However, imagine he was doing Chester-Hereford. The last journey option of the day is:

Chester:- Catch the 21:35 departure for Birmingham to Crewe.
Crewe: - Catch the 22:12 departure for Shrewsbury
Shrewsbury: - Catch the 23:08 departure for Cardiff.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Well this is just terrible behaviour but, unfortunately, not an uncommon sight in my area

Some services leave early by anything between 30 seconds to 2 minutes but there is no call for it.

What I wanna know is what goes through someone's head to leave early from a station because what does it actually achieve? Sure, it might get you there quicker but at the end of the day, let's say, for example, that someone had a connection to make on an advanced ticket. Where does that leave he/she if someone decides that they wanna get out of there as quickly as possible?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Well this is just terrible behaviour but, unfortunately, not an uncommon sight in my area

Some services leave early by anything between 30 seconds to 2 minutes but there is no call for it.

What I wanna know is what goes through someone's head to leave early from a station because what does it actually achieve? Sure, it might get you there quicker but at the end of the day, let's say, for example, that someone had a connection to make on an advanced ticket. Where does that leave he/she if someone decides that they wanna get out of there as quickly as possible?

our doors close 30 seconds before departure and we are bnot allowed to reopen the doors, passengers know this but does not stop them being abusive to me or my colleagues, I do not condone what the guard is accused of doing but we get plenty of grief too, there are posters everywhere stating the 30 second rule

 

[tony_mac]

there are posters everywhere stating the 30 second rule

wouldn't it be easier to just change the timetables and close the doors at the correct time!