Potential for Bus Franchising in Cumbria

[Omnidekkalover]

Cumbria to undergo bus franchising study in rural communities

The government gives £500,000 to Cumbrian councils to explore ways to boost passenger satisfaction.

www.bbc.co.uk

Although it is just a study currently, I’m not sure if bus franchising in Cumbria is needed that much because there has already been a decent amount of effort seemingly put in to making services better in both Cumberland and Westmorland.

 

[Oxfordblues]

I just did a bus-travel enquiry from Barrow to Workington and it gave me a 4-hour itinerary changing at Ulverston, Windermere and Keswick (there are currently no through trains). So there is work to be done!

 

[Megafuss]

I just did a bus-travel enquiry from Barrow to Workington and it gave me a 4-hour itinerary changing at Ulverston, Windermere and Keswick (there are currently no through trains). So there is work to be done!

Not a lot of chimney pots between the two

 

[YorkRailFan]

The town of Sedbergh in Westmorland has an incredibly limited minibus service. When I used it in August on a Wednesday, I counted 17 people left behind in Sedbergh to go to Kendal. Considering the minibus used could only take 16 buses, another two vehicles would've been needed. The fact that Sedbergh's only form of public transport has had to be organised by a community organisation says a lot about the state of buses in the area!

 

[Tetchytyke]

there has already been a decent amount of effort seemingly put in to making services better in both Cumberland and Westmorland

Stagecoach operates a very strong commercial network in the South Lakes, and a reasonable network in Carlisle. This is what people see.

Beyond that, public transport provision in Cumberland and Westmorland is very poor. The last bus from Carlisle to Keswick, for instance, is at 1600. Much of the two counties are completely reliant on community transport, including fairly notable places such as Sedbergh.

A big chunk of this is because much of the two counties are very empty of people, but there’s more to it than that. But unless franchising unlocks more funding for Cumberland and Westmorland councils I don’t see much impact.

 

[JKP]

Stagecoach operates a very strong commercial network in the South Lakes, and a reasonable network in Carlisle. This is what people see.

Beyond that, public transport provision in Cumberland and Westmorland is very poor. The last bus from Carlisle to Keswick, for instance, is at 1600. Much of the two counties are completely reliant on community transport, including fairly notable places such as Sedbergh.

A big chunk of this is because much of the two counties are very empty of people, but there’s more to it than that. But unless franchising unlocks more funding for Cumberland and Westmorland councils I don’t see much impact.

Much of the poor provision is really down to the previous Cumbria County Council not wanting to financially support rural bus services. Let us not forget that in later years, the small town of Millom had no bus service at all, though it is on the Cumbrian Coast line so not entirely cut off from the outside world.

I would be sceptical that a franchising authority would have the acumen and take the commercial risk Stagecoach has taken to build the current network in the Lake District.

 

[Megafuss]

Much of the poor provision is really down to the previous Cumbria County Council not wanting to financially support rural bus services. Let us not forget that in later years, the small town of Millom had no bus service at all, though it is on the Cumbrian Coast line so not entirely cut off from the outside world.

I would be sceptical that a franchising authority would have the acumen and take the commercial risk Stagecoach has taken to build the current network in the Lake District.

I suspect officers at the council are pragmatic and understand the limits to what Stagecoach can and can't do.

I have a feeling it's the political masters that are pushing this.

I notice there was a "call to arms" recently by the same council to encourage operators to bid for secured services, which didn't strike me as an authority that was expecting a deluge of bidders...

 

[mattb7tl]

Much of the poor provision is really down to the previous Cumbria County Council not wanting to financially support rural bus services. Let us not forget that in later years, the small town of Millom had no bus service at all, though it is on the Cumbrian Coast line so not entirely cut off from the outside world.

I would be sceptical that a franchising authority would have the acumen and take the commercial risk Stagecoach has taken to build the current network in the Lake District.

I don’t think it’s so much about councils not wanting to support rural bus services but rather that they have been chronically underfunded and left with little capacity to do so. In a franchised setup authorities would have access to existing government funding that currently goes straight to operators and they would also have the ability to generate revenue through their own assets.

Franchising allows a shift away from the regressive, demand-based approach we see now. Instead of doing the bare minimum to “meet demand” while operators pocket any remaining subsidy it enables funding-based planning. It means the goal is to design a cohesive network and provide as many journeys as possible from both revenue and public funding.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Much of the poor provision is really down to the previous Cumbria County Council not wanting to financially support rural bus services.

Not so much “not wanting to”, more not having the funding to.

And part of the reason for that lack of funding has to come back to ENCTS, with the council on the hook for significant sums of money on ENCTS reimbursements so the nanas can ride around Windermere on an open-top bus. That money all flies straight into Stagecoach’s back pocket.

I would be sceptical that a franchising authority would have the acumen and take the commercial risk Stagecoach has taken to build the current network in the Lake District.

I don’t wish to do Stagecoach down because what they offer in the south lakes is very good, especially the branding and the promotional literature. But don’t forget that even this network operates with notable financial assistance. Look how many times the phrase “funded by Westmorland and Furness Council” appears in even the summer timetable.

But whether much more can be delivered would depend on whether franchising would unlock more funding. Without it, a franchised network probably won’t look a great deal different.

 

[TUC]

I just did a bus-travel enquiry from Barrow to Workington and it gave me a 4-hour itinerary changing at Ulverston, Windermere and Keswick (there are currently no through trains). So there is work to be done!

Two hours by a combination of bus and train, with one change, looking at tomorrow.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Let us not forget that in later years, the small town of Millom had no bus service at all, though it is on the Cumbrian Coast line so not entirely cut off from the outside world.

Millom is an interesting example. It has a good train service, which is subsidised. There is nowhere in the town which is more than a mile or so away from the railway station, with rail services taking you directly to the nearest traffic centres. It’s one of those places that probably doesn’t need many buses as the train does the job better.

there are currently no through trains

It is a 20 minute walk or a short rail replacement bus ride between Corkickle and Whitehaven, with trains operating either side of the tunnel. There’s no buses up the coast from Barrow because the train does the job better.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I just did a bus-travel enquiry from Barrow to Workington and it gave me a 4-hour itinerary changing at Ulverston, Windermere and Keswick (there are currently no through trains). So there is work to be done!

There is still a rail service with a short walk (or RRB?) in the middle. Nobody bar someone trying to make a point would do that journey by service bus.

 

[JKP]

Not so much “not wanting to”, more not having the funding to.

And part of the reason for that lack of funding has to come back to ENCTS, with the council on the hook for significant sums of money on ENCTS reimbursements so the nanas can ride around Windermere on an open-top bus. That money all flies straight into Stagecoach’s back pocket.


I don’t wish to do Stagecoach down because what they offer in the south lakes is very good, especially the branding and the promotional literature. But don’t forget that even this network operates with notable financial assistance. Look how many times the phrase “funded by Westmorland and Furness Council” appears in even the summer timetable.

But whether much more can be delivered would depend on whether franchising would unlock more funding. Without it, a franchised network probably won’t look a great deal different.

I was looking back over the past 40 years or so, long before ENCTS was even thought of. Cumbria was a Labour controlled authority and funding of bus services was not high on their list of priorities. No doubt much of their budget was swallowed by social problems around the former mining areas of Workington and Whitehaven.

 

[NorthOxonian]

I just did a bus-travel enquiry from Barrow to Workington and it gave me a 4-hour itinerary changing at Ulverston, Windermere and Keswick (there are currently no through trains). So there is work to be done!

Though there is the issue that (in general) Cumbria is quite a divided county in terms of where people identify and associate with. Most of the towns in Westmorland, particularly the south (places like Kendal, Kirkby Lonsdale, etc) generally gravitate towards Lancaster for their services. Barrow is in a similar position (though because it's larger and more isolated, is perhaps a bit more self contained). On the other hand Cumberland and the Eden Valley tend to look to Carlisle as their main centre. You notice this on the train services along the coast - demand is stronger between Carlisle and West Cumbria and then picks up again once you get to Millom, but is relatively minimal between the two (some commuting between Millom and Sellafield excepted).

Interestingly, before the councils were reorganised to have Cumberland and Westmorland/Furness, there were actually proposals which would have put the Eden Valley in with Cumberland and then combined the south lakes (including Kendal), Furness, and Lancaster/Morecambe. This would have perhaps solved some issues around the boundaries - as it stands the 555 would cross the boundary of the franchise and I believe is worked both from Kendal and a Lancaster/Morecambe depot.

I suppose this is no worse than many other rural counties - in many cases (say, Wiltshire) you have different parts of the county looking to different centres, some of which are internal and others external. But it is more of an issue for these franchising proposals than metropolitan ones which generally have a clearer centre.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Cumbria was a Labour controlled authority

Not that it particularly matters as it’s not a party political thing, but Cumbria County Council was under Labour control for precisely eight of the fifty years it was in existence.

No doubt much of their budget was swallowed by social problems around the former mining areas of Workington and Whitehaven.

If this is the level of discussion then I’m out.

Though there is the issue that (in general) Cumbria is quite a divided county in terms of where people identify and associate with.

Before Cumbria was created, Barrow and Ulverston were historically in Lancashire and so they have always looked towards Lancaster. West Cumbria and the lower Eden Valley has always looked towards Carlisle.

I’d agree that in a lot of ways separate franchising for Cumberland and for Westmorland, Furness, and Lancaster would make more sense. I know Penrith was always historically in Westmorland and so local identity trumped beat administrative borders, but Penrith really would fit better in Cumberland.

 

[markymark2000]

I don’t wish to do Stagecoach down because what they offer in the south lakes is very good, especially the branding and the promotional literature. But don’t forget that even this network operates with notable financial assistance. Look how many times the phrase “funded by Westmorland and Furness Council” appears in even the summer timetable.

Don't forget that a lot of BSIP funds have gone into it though. Stagecoach did have a strongish commercial network before that. And arguably had BSIP not happened and not wafted £50 notes under operators noses, the commercial network would still have looked strong. Plus I believe it's a condition of funding that you have to say if it's funded by BSIP, and so even if BSIP only covers a single trip in the late evening, the note 'funded by BSIP funds' would still have to be shown, despite it only applying to a tiny section of the route.

Much of the poor provision is really down to the previous Cumbria County Council not wanting to financially support rural bus services.

Not helped by Cumbria County council pushing for most rural buses (nicknamed Rural Wheels) to work off Section 19 permits which forces you to faff around signing up to become a 'member' and then you have to keep booking buses. Rather than a number of other authorities which operated rural buses who ran rural buses either as tenders or at least tried to run them as Section 22 permits (such as Nottinghamshire) which permits the general public to use the bus and even if you have to book, you don't have to faff around becoming a member to be able to use the bus and as such it can show up on journey planners, not hidden behind many many pages on the councils website.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

Penrith was historically in Cumberland.