Regular journey but different route cross London?

[Manc27]

Hello, new here, just have a question...

I regularly travel from Manchester to Hassocks, and every time I go the route specified is to go from Euston to London Bridge on the tube to get my Hassocks train, and come back the same way. The train that goes to London Bridge is Brighton to Bedford I think, and stops at St Pancras International further up...

I have got used to this way, but on my upcoming trip this weekend, the itinerary I have been given by Crosscountry where I buy my advance tickets, is to go as usual via London Bridge, but on the return journey it tells me to get to Euston via King's Cross St Pancras, so giving London Bridge a miss, and going through the palaver of getting into the tube system to go one stop to Euston.

I don't quite understand why this one journey is different from all the others. The train to St Pancras stops at London Bridge as always, so I am tempted to get off at London Bridge and jump on the Northern Line to Euston from there as usual. Is there any reason anyone can think of why this wouldn't be possible on Monday 1st August around lunchtime? Couldn't find any info about London Bridge underground not being open that day...

Is it just a quirk or would there be a reason for the itinerary change for this one journey? Would my ticket still allow me to go via the London Bridge route as the only booked trains are the Manchester/London ones?

My other option is to just walk from St Pancras to Euston and would probably be quicker but if at all possible I'd like to stick to the route I know as I'm just used to it now and go on autopilot...

Any suggestions welcome! Thanks in advance!

 

[Clip]

Your cross london ticket anyway is valid for a journey in Zone 1 so london bridge or Kins Cross is valid and euston to Kings X is quicker by tube.

Just check your tickets as they may be Southern Only and then a return of FCC only on the different legs which wmay explain it. If they are both FCC then theres never a reason to go to London Bridge.

 

[tony_mac]

If it's an 'Advance' ticket then you are probably 'supposed' to use it with your original itinerary, but I don't think it actually matters how you do a cross-london transfer.

If it's not then you can certainly do it however you like!

 

[swt_passenger]

The journey planners use some pretty unrealistic cross London transfer times, rather than the actual tube running times, so what I'm thinking is that the planner's total time for the [slow rail journey from London Bridge to KX/StP plus the transfer to Euston] is about the same as a London Bridge to Euston transfer. So depending on the Thameslink up and down timings you could get a different calculation in each direction, or in different planners.

The default transfer values are in the introduction to the online NR timetable:

London Bridge to Euston is 52 min
KGX/STP to Euston is 38 min
London Br to KGX/STP LL by Thameslink I guess is variable, could change with time of day...

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%20documents/eNRT/May11/Commercial%20Information.pdf

 

[yorkie]

Would my ticket still allow me to go via the London Bridge route as the only booked trains are the Manchester/London ones?

I don't know what ticket you have, so cannot comment on what it allows.

I don't know what date you are travelling, so cannot comment on what services are operating that day.

Myself and others will be willing and able to assist further, if more information can be provided, specifically the ticket type, date, times of travel, routeing on the ticket, and details of reservation coupon(s) held - if provided. If more than one ticket is held, then we need this information on all tickets, but it sounds like in this case there is only one ticket.

I could look at Avantix and guess and give a 'probable' answer, but I'd rather not!

 

[gordonthemoron]

I would never get the tube from EUS-STP as it's quicker to walk.

Plus there was an incident a while back when I wanted to go to Totenham Court Road, took Northern Line KGX-EUS and tried to change there for Charing Cross branch, only to inadvertently get a southbound Bank branch train and wound up back at KGX

 

[island]

Could the Thameslink weekend closures come into it?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I must add my voice to the view that the easiest way to make that journey by an able bodied passenger is to stay on the Thameslink route (instead of the tube) and just walk the short distance between St Pancras and Euston.

Quicker, simpler and a lot more pleasant (in my opinion).

 

[cuccir]

I don't know what date you are travelling, so cannot comment on what services are operating that day.

... Is there any reason anyone can think of why this wouldn't be possible on Monday 1st August around lunchtime?...

I'm presuming this is the date of travel! There are no scheduled engineering works (which affect this journey) on the tube that day, and I'm not aware of any National Rail engineering work which will affect the journey either

 

[tony_mac]

I must add my voice to the view that the easiest way to make that journey by an able bodied passenger is to stay on the Thameslink route (instead of the tube) and just walk the short distance between St Pancras and Euston.

Unless, by some fluke, it's raining!
and changing at London Bridge probably is the quickest way to make this journey.

 

[SS4]

Unless, by some fluke, it's raining!
and changing at London Bridge probably is the quickest way to make this journey.

I'd take rain against the stench and stuffiness of the underground! The OP mentions a summer lunchtime so rain isn't likely. In addition given the time it takes to actually get to the platform and wait for the train you could have made significant progress on foot.

I agree that changing at London Bridge would probably be quicker too

 

[Manc27]

Thanks for the replies. The ticket just says "VWC & Connections" and is an advance single.

The train gets to St Pancras Intl at 13:03 (though have noticed the train from Hassocks is 7-10 minutes late more often than not) so allowing for a delay should give me half an hour or more to get the Mcr train - so figure I might just do the specified journey for a bit of a change and walk from St Panc to Euston as I won't have too much to carry and a stroll might well be preferable to the tube... Certainly not going to get tube for one stop as would probably be just as much walking getting in and out of the tunnels...

Is Euston signposted from St Pancras? Only problem I can see is if I set off in the wrong direction :roll:

Guess if this works out quicker and easier I'll be wanting to do this every time, will post what happens!

Still not sure why this one journey would be different from all the others though!

Thanks!

 

[yorkie]

Easiest way is as shown on this map

When you reach the top of the escalators (from the low level Thameslink platforms), to your right you will see the side exit, go through this exit and turn right. Almost immediately you will see Brill Place on your left, continue along this road (it becomes Phoenix Road), at the end of the road you will see Euston station in front of you, but you need to turn left to reach the side entrance to the station, which will be on your right (but you can't miss it!)

Walking time: 10 minutes max. Allow longer to get to/from platforms.

 

[bb21]

I assume that you only have one reservation coupon for this journey, for the Virgin leg?

If so, then you may use any of the suggestions above. It should have a dagger sign (+) so it is valid for one journey on the underground for transfer purposes should you need it. All you need to do to ensure that it is a valid connection, so that in case of delays on the leg into London you will be allowed to travel on the next Virgin service, by allowing at least the minimum amount of time between the scheduled arrival time at your incoming London Terminal and the departure time at Euston. The table is here, on page 44. For example, if you're booked to leave Euston at 1343, then the latest arrival time at London Bridge will be 1251 for it to be a valid connection, ie. 52 minutes.

 

[Manc27]

Easiest way is as shown on this map

When you reach the top of the escalators (from the low level Thameslink platforms), to your right you will see the side exit, go through this exit and turn right. Almost immediately you will see Brill Place on your left, continue along this road (it becomes Phoenix Road), at the end of the road you will see Euston station in front of you, but you need to turn left to reach the side entrance to the station, which will be on your right (but you can't miss it!)


Walking time: 10 minutes max. Allow longer to get to/from platforms.

Thanks, I know the area just around Euston a little bit so will be able to spot it once in the general area

I assume that you only have one reservation coupon for this journey, for the Virgin leg?

If so, then you may use any of the suggestions above. It should have a dagger sign (+) so it is valid for one journey on the underground for transfer purposes should you need it. All you need to do to ensure that it is a valid connection, so that in case of delays on the leg into London you will be allowed to travel on the next Virgin service, by allowing at least the minimum amount of time between the scheduled arrival time at your incoming London Terminal and the departure time at Euston. The table is here, on page 44. For example, if you're booked to leave Euston at 1343, then the latest arrival time at London Bridge will be 1251 for it to be a valid connection, ie. 52 minutes.

Thanks, yes, the only reservation coupon is for the Virgin Train.

Ironically I just went on Crosscountry to see what route it would suggest if I bought a single from Hassocks to Euston on the same connecting train on Monday - and it said to go via London Bridge, not St Pancras! So it does seem a bit arbitrary which route it suggests!

 

[yorkie]

You mean different booking engines give different suggestions? This is not surprising given different programmers will have different ideas. Use whichever is most convenient, if it makes a difference (in this case it doesn't).

 

[Manc27]

You mean different booking engines give different suggestions? This is not surprising given different programmers will have different ideas. Use whichever is most convenient, if it makes a difference (in this case it doesn't).

Nope, same one as I booked the ticket with, giving 2 different results!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Lol, to clarify things, I emailed customer service at Crosscountry, spelling out the situation exactly as I did on this thread.

They said if I want to go to Manchester from Hassocks there is a service via London Bridge and Euston and I can buy tickets for that, but if I want to break the route that is on the tickets I have to buy new tickets. WTF?! I already explained to them that their email was telling me to go via St Pancras and that I had already bought a ticket.

There is no route on the tickets, just "VWC and connections", I am assuming the train times they email you are suggestions (apart from the reserved train).

Why is it you can never get a straight answer from customer services? And I don't believe it was signed "Cinderella...." I expect one of the trains may turn into a pumpkin!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I asked again for clarification, again their reply makes no sense:

Thank you for your email.

We understand that generally your journey is via London Bridge However the tickets type that you have selected is via London St Pancras Intl. Please be informed that you need to travel on the same date, train and seat numbers as per the Terms and Conditions of the Advance Single ticket. Break of Journey is not allowed with this ticket type.

We would request you to make your journey on the same route to avoid any inconvenience. We sincerely regret any inconvenience this may have caused.

If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us.

So if I do travel via St Pancras on this occasion, and find it much more convenient (ten minute walk to Euston as opposed to 20-30 mins in the tube system from London Bridge) I will in fact not be able to use the more convenient route in future as Crosscountry says I will have to go via whichever Underground route they tell me?

Is there a way of contacting someone at Crosscountry who isn't based in Mumbai?! :roll:

 

[tony_mac]

you can probably put in the booking engine to go via / avoid St Pancras anyway.

Realistically, nobody will know - they can't check what itinerary you booked anyway if you aren't given any reservations for those services.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Cross Country, in this case, are wrong. Where a ticket is routed '& Connections' you can use any service (that you can shown on a valid travel itinerary) to connect with the service of the TOC mentioned.

In your case because your ticket is 'rte VWC & Connections' you can use any Southern, or FCC service to get to London, and cross London by any reasonable route.

Where 'Advance' tickets do not show '& Connections' in the route, they must be used as agreed at the time of purchase (in theory).

 

[Manc27]

Well I never got to try out the walk to Euston from St Pancras, as I ended up in the middle of the London-Brighton mainline chaos, so ended up on a train which terminated at London Bridge and just got the tube from there to Euston - did note that the ticket worked on the underground as normal, so I could have taken that route anyway.

Thanks for the replies in this thread. If I am feeling brave in future I might experiment with routes other than the ones Cross Country give me, despite them telling me their emailed itinerary MUST BE OBEYED

 

[DelayRepay]

We would request you to make your journey on the same route to avoid any inconvenience. We sincerely regret any inconvenience this may have caused.

Are they apologising for inconvenience caused by their advice which is designed to avoid inconvenience? :roll:

 

[Manc27]

Are they apologising for inconvenience caused by their advice which is designed to avoid inconvenience? :roll:

lol...

 

[yorkie]

XC can consider themselves added to my 'useless customer services' list (though NXEA are top). Their response was a waffle copy & paste job that dodges the actual issue. To be honest, the person who pasted it together (I won't say wrote, as they clearly didn't) does not understand the question, let alone the concepts involved. So the chances of a suitable answer are nil. You can't blag something like this; if you don't get the question you can't answer! We provide more 'training' to forum members here (in the form of Fares Workshops) than some TOCs to do customer service staff it seems!

It does seem bizarre how such poor standards can exist in the rail industry. If I came out with waffle not answering people's actual questions I'd expect to be sacked. Why is it acceptable in the rail industry? It's annoying that such individuals are allowed to bring the industry into disrepute and tarnish UK rail's reputation. Yet unknowledgable staff are so widespread. It's a major problem and the TOCs deny it exists so it aint gonna be fixed any time soon..