Hope Valley service improvements from December

[northwichcat]

Extra commuter train services through the Hope Valley have been announced this week.

Northern Rail has announced that from December passengers travelling from Sheffield will have an additional service departing at 6.14pm.

There will also be improvements to the Manchester evening service with new departures at 4.45pm and 5.48pm, replacing the current 5.18pm service.

The High Peak and Hope Valley Community Rail Partnership has been campaigning for the extra services on behalf of commuters living in the Hope Valley area of the Peak District National Park.

Derbyshire county councillor Jean Wharmby, who is also a Peak District National Park Authority member, chairs the rail partnership and Councillor Tony Favell, chair of the authority, is the vice chair.

http://www.bakewelltoday.co.uk/lifestyle/extra_trains_for_hope_valley_1_3598039

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

On the face of it, this looks good, but the 1718 at present stops at all stations from Bredbury onwards to Sheffield and is useful for commuters to these stations from Manchester Piccadilly whose work time enables them to use this train. It now looks like those passengers who cannot arrive at Manchester Piccadilly any earlier,for travel to these stations, will have to wait a further 30 minutes to start their journey home, until the proposed 1748 departure.

Not many employers will accept the need of their staff to leave early to catch the proposed 1645 departure.

 

[northwichcat]

It now looks like those passengers who cannot arrive at Manchester Piccadilly any earlier,for travel to these stations, will have to wait a further 30 minutes to start their journey home, until the proposed 1748 departure.

Someone posted on another forum that the 17:23 Manchester to Hazel Grove is likely to be extended to Chinley but that hasn't been officially confirmed.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Someone posted on another forum that the 17:23 Manchester to Hazel Grove is likely to be extended to Chinley but that hasn't been officially confirmed.

That is all well and good, but that service does not cater for the stops at Bredbury, Romiley, Marple, Strines and New Mills Central who are currently served by the 1718 service, which carries quite a number of passengers to all these stations.

 

[scrapy]

Isn't the plan to terminate the 17.18 at New Mills, not get rid of it altogether?

It would also make sense to extend the 17.32 Man Picc to New Mills to Chinley as it goes past empty stock anyway.

 

[northwichcat]

That is all well and good, but that service does not cater for the stops at Bredbury, Romiley, Marple, Strines and New Mills Central who are currently served by the 1718 service, which carries quite a number of passengers to all these stations.

I imagine the 17:18 will still run but terminate at New Mills Central. The 16:45 will not be a new service, simply an extension of a service which currently terminates at New Mills Central.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Isn't the plan to terminate the 17.18 at New Mills, not get rid of it altogether?

In which case, I withdraw my objection, as you can see from my previous posting, it was the stations from Bredbury to New Mills Central on the 1718 service used by homecoming commuters that I had concerns for.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

In which case, I withdraw my objection, as you can see from my previous posting, it was the stations from Bredbury to New Mills Central on the 1718 service used by homecoming commuters that I had concerns for.

It gets hammered, I tend to report it Full and standing before we even get passed Ardwick lol

 

[tom1649]

It gets hammered, I tend to report it Full and standing before we even get passed Ardwick lol

Does it ever run as a 4 car? Platform 2c at Sheffield might be a problem there, but there's another bay which can be used isn't there?

 

[northwichcat]

Does it ever run as a 4 car? Platform 2c at Sheffield might be a problem there, but there's another bay which can be used isn't there?

The 17:18 is the service which will be truncated at New Mills Central in the December timetable change. The 16:45 is the service that will be extended instead.

The 17:23 to Hazel Grove, which is set to be extended to Chinley, is booked for 2x142s but that won't go to Sheffield.

 

[scrapy]

Am not sure an extended 17.48 could cope with passenger numbers though. As a 142 it is usually full and standing leaving Piccadilly. Add to that those travelling to Hope Valley stations, plus Sheffield it would need to be a class 156 at the very minimum.

Due to the short platform at Hathersage it would not be able to run as two units past Bamford and whilst it wouldn't need to be 2 units a that point it would add extra time to the journey whilst the rear unit is locked out/passengers transferred. (and before anyone says the guard should advise all passengers travelling beyond Bamford to travel in the front portion only, this is easier said than done, passengers don't listen to instructions).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The 17:23 to Hazel Grove, which is set to be extended to Chinley, is booked for 2x142s but that won't go to Sheffield.

I thought someone said that the 17:23 decision had still to be officially confirmed as being extended from Hazel Grove to Chinley. When will this be finally confirmed,or not, as the case may be, as all we have is supposition at the present time.

There is another thread ...CHINLEY TO LOSE SERVICES....currently running on this forum.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

If the stories are true this is a bad bad decision as someone who works these trains we are overstretched as it is, a recipe for disaster if I have ever seen one

 

[bb21]

Does it ever run as a 4 car? Platform 2c at Sheffield might be a problem there, but there's another bay which can be used isn't there?

It can't use Platform 7. The train is not booked to leave on current diagrams until the return service at 1914. Platform 7 is used to accommodate an incoming St Pancras service at 1858.

 

[Bakerbloke]

I wouldn't call them improvements - not after speaking to many people in Chinley. See the thread I started on " Chinley to lose services". We are going to lose our prime train the 1720 TPE from Manchester. This train is the only way to finish work at 5 and get back to Chinley well before 6pm to pick up kids from various child care - after school clubs especially (which all close at 6 in this area) - hence a significant portion of the 50 people who use this service are parents.

Feelings are still running high on the platform over this. Those who drive to the station are likely to not use Chinley and will likely drive to Marple or Hazel Grove. For me - I no longer think the ticket prices at Chinley are good value for money and will instead cycle to New Mills and get the much cheaper GMPTE traincard.

Oddly, TPE are also going to axe the 1810 out of Sheffield and according to a notice at Chinley station this was purely a commercial decision by TPE and not due to any pathing problems.

Whoever said the trains are going to be more crammed out of Manchester are spot on. Chinley commuters are going to pile onto the EMT from Manchester at 1743. The Hope Valley travellers are instead going to get on the already busy 1748 which is currently full of Marple, New Mills and Chinley commuters and it us not going to be extended to 2 car.

 

[tbtc]

Oddly, TPE are also going to axe the 1810 out of Sheffield and according to a notice at Chinley station this was purely a commercial decision by TPE and not due to any pathing problems

...to be replaced by a 18.14 alternative?

 

[northwichcat]

I wouldn't call them improvements.

It is the local councillors and rail user groups who are calling them improvements and not the rail operators or bodies.

We are going to lose our prime train the 1720 TPE from Manchester
...
Those who drive to the station are likely to not use Chinley and will likely drive to Marple or Hazel Grove.

So let me get this straight. They currently catch the 17:20 departure for Cleethorphes but instead they will catch the 17:23 to Hazel Grove and then drive home from Hazel Grove, even though the 17:23 Hazel Grove service is being extended to Chinley!

TPE and EMT services are supposed to be express services and not call at little stations because the local service is inadequate.

Oddly, TPE are also going to axe the 1810 out of Sheffield and according to a notice at Chinley station this was purely a commercial decision by TPE and not due to any pathing problems.

Having been on that service a couple of times it seems quite a few people use the Chinley call to go to Manchester and very few use it to return from Sheffield. As Chinley is getting extra services eastbound, is there a chance that the TPE will run very close to a return Chinley-Manchester service so TPE have decided that the Chinley call isn't still required?

 

[tom1649]

It can't use Platform 7. The train is not booked to leave on current diagrams until the return service at 1914. Platform 7 is used to accommodate an incoming St Pancras service at 1858.

I see, thanks for the information. As someone else said, Hathersage (with its 1980s low cost platforms) would be a problem for longer trains, so it looks like a no go.

The one time I caught the last CT service to Chesterfield from Manchester, the train was booked to call at all Hope Valley stations, but it couldn't call at Hathersage due to either the station lighting being broken (was once an ongoing problem there) or the train being too long (it was a 3 car 170). I can't remember which. Having said that, on another night, a 101 stopped without any problems at Hathersage with no station lighting.

 

[VideozVideoz]

The one time I caught the last CT service to Chesterfield from Manchester, the train was booked to call at all Hope Valley stations, but it couldn't call at Hathersage due to either the station lighting being broken (was once an ongoing problem there) or the train being too long (it was a 3 car 170). I can't remember which. Having said that, on another night, a 101 stopped without any problems at Hathersage with no station lighting.

It is likely the short platform was the issue. My girlfriend frequently used the last CT service back to the Hope Valley from Manchester and on the odd occasion the guard/LDB reported the stop at Hathersage to be cancelled due to the short platform

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I'm still trying to figure out how any of this is an "improvement" all it means is that I am now going to get even more dirty looks of passengers because they won't be able to all fit on my 142 because of a lack of available trains and Northern getting expected to work miracles with 25 year old clapped out stock, ffs any government in the future use common sense when ordering stock and not juts channel all the money down into the moneypit that is south of the Watford gap.

 

[northwichcat]

I'm still trying to figure out how any of this is an "improvement"

Does it not mean additional services for all stations on the Hope Valley line after New Mills Central, opposed to just Chinley getting a couple of expresses stopping there, plus a more consistent timetable?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Does it not mean additional services for all stations on the Hope Valley line after New Mills Central, opposed to just Chinley getting a couple of expresses stopping there?

We already are having a severe shortage of units and traincrew I can see this being a disaster.

 

[northwichcat]

We already are having a severe shortage of units and traincrew I can see this being a disaster.

So have you forgotten that the 3x180s and 4x156s will be replaced by 14x150s and 7x142s this year?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

So have you forgotten that the 3x180s and 4x156s will be replaced by 14x150s and 7x142s this year?

I will see it before I believe it, we have had these promises before and either the units have gone to another area (eastern usually) or end up strengthing every other depot apart from Piccadilly's, when the Oldham Loop closed in reality we only got one extra unit which is dragged up and down to New Mills for most of the day, worked as a guard for too long to belive anything unless I see it.

 

[Failed Unit]

So have you forgotten that the 3x180s and 4x156s will be replaced by 14x150s and 7x142s this year?

That sounds like a good deal

 

[northwichcat]

That sounds like a good deal

Well it does (in terms of capacity) if you don't take in to consideration that the previous government announced a large DMU order as additional capacity for FGW, Northern and TPE until it changed it mind and said cascaded Thameslink EMUs instead, which won't be ready for quite a few years.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

...to be replaced by a 18.14 alternative?

Yes it is.

From December the departures from Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly will be: 17,14, 18.14 (this train will not call at Bamford) and 19.14

Departures from Manchester Piccadilly to Sheffield: 16.45, 17.23 (final stop Chinley), 17.48 and 18.45.

http://www.buxtonadvertiser.co.uk/community/passengers_win_rush_hour_fight_1_3608017

 

[CosherB]

We need some Hope Valley 'stoppers' that route via Stockport for a fast connection, rather than crawl up the south east Manchester suburbs into Victoria (eventually).

 

[northwichcat]

We need some Hope Valley 'stoppers' that route via Stockport for a fast connection, rather than crawl up the south east Manchester suburbs into Victoria (eventually).

It's been suggested as part of the Manchester Hub the Hazel Grove service will be extended to either Sheffield or Buxton. I think Sheffield is the better option because Buxton doesn't get that many passengers off-peak even though it gets loads at peak times, while the Hope Valley stoppers are well utilised and have a frequency of around 2tph.

 

[tom1649]

It's been suggested as part of the Manchester Hub the Hazel Grove service will be extended to either Sheffield or Buxton. I think Sheffield is the better option because Buxton doesn't get that many passengers off-peak even though it gets loads at peak times, while the Hope Valley stoppers are well utilised and have a frequency of around 2tph.

That will render the electrification to Hazel Grove completely useless though won't it?

 

[northwichcat]

That will render the electrification to Hazel Grove completely useless though won't it?

It's only been used for one service per day since Dec 08.

There is always the option of extending the electrification.

If the Hazel Grove service was extended to Buxton/Sheffield. The existing Preston-Hazel Grove service could be diverted to Alderley Edge (still going via Stockport) after electrification on the Bolton corridor.