Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[OneTrackMinded]

Marginal, the mid December timetable change is normally taken as a key date, little tends to happen around Christmas, and Waterloo has major engineering works between Christmas and start of January.

Unless there is sudden influx of new units ready for passengers, in next 2 months, (rather than available for training, but not ready for service) then more realistically late Jan or early Feb.

I really do wonder what’s gone wrong over the past few weeks. Everything suddenly stopped and it now appears to be going backwards.

 

[WWTownEnth]

I really do wonder what’s gone wrong over the past few weeks. Everything suddenly stopped and it now appears to be going backwards.

Agreed. All rather dispiriting. Really thought we were on the way this time.

 

[Nimbus020]

Agreed. All rather dispiriting. Really thought we were on the way this time.

Not sure if the 2 units that failed last Thurs (031 & 044) are back in service - 041 could be out of service because of the graffiti reported above?

 

[swr444]

I think people need to remember that a “new” fleet rollout will always have some issues. Especially when a significant amount of units have been sat in sidings for years

 

[SeaKing]

Not sure if the 2 units that failed last Thurs (031 & 044) are back in service - 041 could be out of service because of the graffiti reported above?

31 no. 44 should be 5v45 according to RTT

 

[Nogoohwell]

Also as its been pointed out, training has not reached all depots yet.

Although the pace of new diagrams has slowed, its not an indicator that things are going wrong. Train diagrams are not simple out and back affairs. It could simply be that drivers at depot X (Guildford for example) need to be trained before the next batch of diagrams migrates.

 

[Goldfish62]

Also as its been pointed out, training has not reached all depots yet.

Although the pace of new diagrams has slowed, its not an indicator that things are going wrong. Train diagrams are not simple out and back affairs. It could simply be that drivers at depot X (Guildford for example) need to be trained before the next batch of diagrams migrates.

Depends what you define as wrong. Over the summer the MD promised various local politicians that the 701 rollout would be accelerated during the autumn. Instead it's slowed, so for whatever reason he has been unable to fulfill his commitment so far and I'm sure it won't be long until questions start being asked.

 

[hwl]

I really do wonder what’s gone wrong over the past few weeks. Everything suddenly stopped and it now appears to be going backwards.

The Class700 roll out had bumps in the road too.
It is worth remembering that we are in leaf fall season so unit availability will tend to drop hence the spare 455 will be very useful. The leaf fall season seem sot have started slightly earlier than last year and may well last slightly longer than recent years (but with lower average drop rates).

Unit diagramming is often very efficient but some individual diagrams diagrams can be very difficult to change unless a group (4-5 diagrams) are all changed at once (assuming you have enough drivers, but his level of change at once also requires lots of extra drivers) - this may be one of those type points in time.

Having said the above it may well be the rapid roll out over the summer was based on the previous roll out having been slow due to training being the bottleneck allowing a relative surplus of suitable unit to build up which has no been used up and the pace is now determined by the speed units come though the rectification and acceptance process.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I think people need to remember that a “new” fleet rollout will always have some issues. Especially when a significant amount of units have been sat in sidings for years

Train diagrams are not simple out and back affairs. It could simply be that drivers at depot X (Guildford for example) need to be trained before the next batch of diagrams migrates.

Unit diagramming is often very efficient but some individual diagrams diagrams can be very difficult to change unless a group (4-5 diagrams) are all changed at once (assuming you have enough drivers, but his level of change at once also requires lots of extra drivers)

All very valid points indeed.

 

[Surreyman]

I noticed a 701 in platform 8 at Guildford around lunchtime today. I couldn't see the unit number,
Platform 8 is always used for Reading/Gatwick & Farnham/Aldershot trains, so presumably a training run?

 

[Clarence Yard]

Depends what you define as wrong. Over the summer the MD promised various local politicians that the 701 rollout would be accelerated during the autumn. Instead it's slowed, so for whatever reason he has been unable to fulfill his commitment so far and I'm sure it won't be long until questions start being asked.

SWR still seem to be working to the plan that has 34 x 701 diagrams in by the end of the year. This plan predates the current MD. It was slightly back end loaded in the autumn because of the interworking crew diagrams.

So I would be expecting more 701 diagrams appearing before the end of the month, if the unit commissioning is in synch.

If it does slip, the original date of dropping the 455 fleet completely at Xmas will move back but only by a month or so at the rate they seem to be introducing the new stock.

 

[John R]

Depends what you define as wrong. Over the summer the MD promised various local politicians that the 701 rollout would be accelerated during the autumn. Instead it's slowed, so for whatever reason he has been unable to fulfill his commitment so far and I'm sure it won't be long until questions start being asked.

The difference now being that, instead of the politicians who count (ie at the DfT) being critical and challenging the MD of a private operator, they are likely to obfuscate and try and put a positive spin on things, as they can no longer pretend that the buck doesn't stop with the DfT.

 

[Goldfish62]

The difference now being that, instead of the politicians who count (ie at the DfT) being critical and challenging the MD of a private operator, they are likely to obfuscate and try and put a positive spin on things, as they can no longer pretend that the buck doesn't stop with the DfT.

Depends which party they belong to!

 

[John R]

Depends which party they belong to!

True, but the only ones who have any influence will be those wishing to protect their position, even more so if it is an opposition party kicking up a fuss, when they are certainly not going to want to criticise the DfT.

 

[Goldfish62]

True, but the only ones who have any influence will be those wishing to protect their position, even more so if it is an opposition party kicking up a fuss, when they are certainly not going to want to criticise the DfT.

Not sure I follow. If the MD committed to an accelerated 701 rollout which hadn't happened then that's going to be questioned sooner or later. Simple as that.

 

[talldave]

Not sure if the 2 units that failed last Thurs (031 & 044) are back in service - 041 could be out of service because of the graffiti reported above?

I was on 044 this morning.

 

[John R]

Not sure I follow. If the MD committed to an accelerated 701 rollout which hadn't happened then that's going to be questioned sooner or later. Simple as that.

The point is that the buck stops with the DfT, which is controlled by the governing party. So whereas before the politicians and DfT could make life very uncomfortable for the MD, now all they will do is bat away the criticism and put out the usual positive spin in response. Anyway, best not hijack the thread, so I'll leave my thoughts there!

 

[Bigfoot]

I noticed a 701 in platform 8 at Guildford around lunchtime today. I couldn't see the unit number,
Platform 8 is always used for Reading/Gatwick & Farnham/Aldershot trains, so presumably a training run?

Not training, looks like a PTI test run. 5T91 & 5T92

 

[Pippy1505]

Another move ex Long Marston on 16/10/2025 5Q70 Long Marston-Willesden and 5Q71 Willesden SWS-Wimbledon

 

[Bikeman78]

I really do wonder what’s gone wrong over the past few weeks. Everything suddenly stopped and it now appears to be going backwards.

People have short memories. I remember this happening with the 365s, 465s, 375s and 377s. As an example, the 0747 Brighton to Victoria was the last set of stock off Lovers Walk depot. It was short formed or cancelled for months during the slam door to 377 transition.

 

[DelW]

I noticed a 701 in platform 8 at Guildford around lunchtime today. I couldn't see the unit number,
Platform 8 is always used for Reading/Gatwick & Farnham/Aldershot trains, so presumably a training run?

That's certainly the norm, but "always" is overstating it: I caught a Waterloo via Woking fast train that went from p8 yesterday, when services were disrupted by the closure south of Guildford.

However RTT suggests that the train you saw today was an ECS working Aldershot - Guildford (p8) - Woking - Clapham yard. The train details aren't shown though, nor is there any info' on its purpose.

 

[TEW]

The 5Txx runs are PTI testing. 5Qxx runs are used for either unit testing or driver training I believe.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Another move ex Long Marston on 16/10/2025 5Q70 Long Marston-Willesden and 5Q71 Willesden SWS-Wimbledon

Interestingly there is also a 5Q81 running 30 minutes after 5Q71. I think its one or other.

On the last delivery the arrival at Wimbledon was 51 minutes early as the slightly late running (5Q70 ?) leg from Long Marston seemed to just run straight through Willesden. Other deliveries have caught me out by being very early as well so I suspect 5Q71 is the expected but tight connection and 5Q81 is a contingency.
So be warned !. I aim to be at Clapham Junction early enough to intercept it at Wimbledon an hour earlier than expected after I have missed it at Clapham Junction and it has gone via it usual route via Kingston.

On the subject of storage issues vs roll out :-

These deliveries from Long Marston are all of units that have been to SWR already I think. They certainly have not been stored for as long as other 701s were. So I suspect these 701s could be in good shape if they were got fully ready (un-stored and teethed) on SWR and only stored for ten or less months. So the optimist in me expects a surge of new entrants once a whole service block has enough trained drivers to cover a whole intertwined service group.

 

[Nimbus020]

701 039 worked the 'new diagram' 2M03 & then 2M10 this morning

 

[wickham]

Interestingly there is also a 5Q81 running 30 minutes after 5Q71. I think its one or other.

On the last delivery the arrival at Wimbledon was 51 minutes early as the slightly late running (5Q70 ?) leg from Long Marston seemed to just run straight through Willesden. Other deliveries have caught me out by being very early as well so I suspect 5Q71 is the expected but tight connection and 5Q81 is a contingency.
So be warned !. I aim to be at Clapham Junction early enough to intercept it at Wimbledon an hour earlier than expected after I have missed it at Clapham Junction and it has gone via it usual route via Kingston.

On the subject of storage issues vs roll out :-

These deliveries from Long Marston are all of units that have been to SWR already I think. They certainly have not been stored for as long as other 701s were. So I suspect these 701s could be in good shape if they were got fully ready (un-stored and teethed) on SWR and only stored for ten or less months. So the optimist in me expects a surge of new entrants once a whole service block has enough trained drivers to cover a whole intertwined service group.

Peter, you are correct, all the units at Long Marston as well as those at Bicester and Marchwood HAVE been on the Southern already and have done their mileage accumilation. None have gone direct into store from Derby and only 701501/502 have not yet been delivered.

 

[FusionZenFlame]

Glad I've found this forum, I never realised how few of these are actually in use at the moment, considering not a single 701/5 is yet out.

 

[DMckduck]

Glad I've found this forum, I never realised how few of these are actually in use at the moment, considering not a single 701/5 is yet out.

Im sure the /5s will bring their own wealth of issues into the mix when they are eventually introduced.

After that, the blue door close button will then cause its own wealth of issues I imagine.

 

[Goldfish62]

Im sure the /5s will bring their own wealth of issues into the mix when they are eventually introduced.

After that, the blue door close button will then cause its own wealth of issues I imagine.

Blue door close button?

 

[DMckduck]

Blue door close button?

Yes the drivers dont press it currently, and I can bet every dollar themselves and aslef will put up as much trouble as possible to avoid having to press it in the future.

Station improvements are taking place still AFAIK so a wait and see basis how that battle plays out.

 

[TEW]

Next week's new diagram:

5G03 0534 Wimbledon Park Depot to Wimbledon
2G03 0549 Wimbledon to Guildford
2G14 0704 Guildford to London Waterloo
2M13 0817 London Waterloo to Chessington South
2M20 0904 Chessington South to London Waterloo
2F19 0950 London Waterloo to Woking
2F28 1103 Woking to London Waterloo
2G29 1203 London Waterloo to Guildford
2G40 1334 Guildford to London Waterloo
2M39 1447 London Waterloo to Chessington South
2M46 1534 Chessington South to London Waterloo
2F45 1620 London Waterloo to Woking
2F54 1733 Woking to London Waterloo
2G55 1833 London Waterloo to Guildford
2G66 2004 Guildford to London Waterloo
2M65 2117 London Waterloo to Chessington South
2M72 2204 Chessington South to London Waterloo
2F71 2250 London Waterloo to Woking
5Y67 2351 Woking to Wimbledon Park Depot