LNER - last minute reservations on MK4 sets

[Yorkshire09876]

Make reservations available up until 15 minutes before the train leaves its origin station (subject to availability of unbooked seats), then that's it. That would resolve all of these issues. On longer trains also have at least a couple of carriages which cannot be reserved and make it clear which these are for those joining the train later without a reservation (and similarly an equivalent percentage of unbookable seats on a shorter train).

No system allowing seats to be booked after the train has set off is ever going to work well with the turn up and go ethos of the railways and just leads to arguments over whose seat it is.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

No system allowing seats to be booked after the train has set off is ever going to work well with the turn up and go ethos of the railways and just leads to arguments over whose seat it is.

Why isn't it possible that once you are sat in a previously unreserved seat, to reserve it for yourself for the rest of the trip?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why isn't it possible that once you are sat in a previously unreserved seat, to reserve it for yourself for the rest of the trip?

You can on the LNER app.

 

[H F Stephens]

You can on the LNER app.

The last minute reservation system on LNER doesn’t work and has never worked.

Once the train management system has been set up at the service origin station, that’s it - there are no further updates as far as seat reservations are concerned.

It would appear rather telling that some LNER employees, and senior ones at that, remain completely delusional about this.

It’s therefore perhaps little wonder that the company’s corporate messaging remains so inaccurate/misleading, and no-one seems to call it out.

A system upgrade is *supposed* to be forthcoming, finally permitting real-time updates, but I’m not aware of an actual implementation date for this.

 

[357]

Once the train management system has been set up at the service origin station, that’s it - there are no further updates as far as seat reservations are concerned.

The MK4 set that's the subject of this thread was updating at every station

 

[Wallsendmag]

The last minute reservation system on LNER doesn’t work and has never worked.

Once the train management system has been set up at the service origin station, that’s it - there are no further updates as far as seat reservations are concerned.

It would appear rather telling that some LNER employees, and senior ones at that, remain completely delusional about this.

It’s therefore perhaps little wonder that the company’s corporate messaging remains so inaccurate/misleading, and no-one seems to call it out.

A system upgrade is *supposed* to be forthcoming, finally permitting real-time updates, but I’m not aware of an actual implementation date for this.

Sorry but your info is out of date ,the reserved seats update before each stop now.The implementation date has been and gone.

 

[Uk02048]

Sorry but your info is out of date ,the reserved seats update before each stop now.The implementation date has been and gone.

XC do it all the time, eg BRI to MAN, on an expensive flex open return as work is like that. Find an "available" seat on departure and settle in, then get booted at BHM where it becomes "reserved", along with overloaded late rush commuters to wolves and I need to decant and stand in the hot smelly cramped vestibule.

 

[OscarH]

Sorry but your info is out of date ,the reserved seats update before each stop now.The implementation date has been and gone.

Of course, I assume it has the same rather large failure rate as the loading of reservations at the origin has always had? :P

 

[sheff1]

Reserving seats from under the backside of customers already sat there is utterly asinine. One of the most antisocial ideas on the railway.

No system allowing seats to be booked after the train has set off is ever going to work well with the turn up and go ethos of the railways and just leads to arguments over whose seat it is.

It can work, and does elsewhere, if it is done in a sensible manner which is standard across the system. Of course this is not likley to happen here any time soon.

Indeed, the 'May be reserved' indicator might as well say 'reserved', because passengers are reluctant to occupy a seat only to be booted out of it later.

I am not at all reluctant to sit in such a seat and can't remember the last time I was "booted out".

You can on the LNER app.

Not in my experience, as mentioned above.

Sorry but your info is out of date ,the reserved seats update before each stop now.The implementation date has been and gone.

When was this implementation ?

 

[AlterEgo]

It can work, and does elsewhere, if it is done in a sensible manner which is standard across the system. Of course this is not likley to happen here any time soon.

Where else in the world has a policy of remotely reserving a seat someone else is already sitting in and then getting to turf them out?

 

[sheff1]

Where else in the world has a policy of remotely reserving a seat someone else is already sitting in and then getting to turf them out?

In Sweden longer distance trains do not have any reservation displays but the majority of seats are reservable at any time upon payment of a fee. Those seats which are not reservable are clearly communicated on the screens at stations (e.g. "Seats 1-20 in coach 3 are unreserved"). If someone chooses to sit in a seat which can be reserved but does not pay the relevant fee then they can find it is claimed by someone who has reserved (this could be weeks in advance, or just before departure).

In my experience the system is widely understood and people who have taken a chance by not reserving move without quibble when someone claims the seat.

Disclaimer, this has been in place for many years but I have not travelled on such a train this year so there is a possibilty (slim in my view) that things have changed.

My understanding is that the same applies in Denmark but my travels there are much less frequent than Sweden - I certainly recall reserving a seat about 10 years ago on a train from Odense which had started from Aalborg hours before I made the reservation.

 

[Nym]

Why isn't it possible that once you are sat in a previously unreserved seat, to reserve it for yourself for the rest of the trip?

Because not everyone is tied to their devices even if possessing one, and sitting in an "Available" seat shouldn't require you to make use of a data hoarding tracking application to keep "dibs" on it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Where else in the world has a policy of remotely reserving a seat someone else is already sitting in and then getting to turf them out?

Poland does. The default is to reserve, and reservations aren't marked, but aside from the Pendolino services there is no penalty for not doing so bar a game of musical chairs.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Oct 2025 ==

Not in my experience, as mentioned above.

How can't you? You can reserve and choose a seat on the app.

 

[Falcon1200]

I am not at all reluctant to sit in such a seat and can't remember the last time I was "booted out".

Well I am, and I have been! You must have been lucky.

 

[H F Stephens]

Sorry but your info is out of date ,the reserved seats update before each stop now.The implementation date has been and gone.

Well, they do say that it's good to start the day with a laugh, so I am grateful on two counts.

As anyone proposing a position should, I took the opportunity to verify the situation prior to making my post, sitting as I happened to be on an LNER service when I started reading this thread.

This provided a perfect opportunity to test the last minute reservation system.

Accordingly, I can absolutely confirm that, as of yesterday, the system does not work.

I cannot speculate as to the (or even conceive of a) reason why LNER continues to expound the notion that the system does work, nor why individual employees do so in the face of all evidence visible to any passenger who finds themselves puzzled.

Anyhow, a chuckle and point completely proven to start the day.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As anyone proposing a position should, I took the opportunity to verify the situation prior to making my post, sitting as I happened to be on an LNER service when I started reading this thread.

On a Mk4 or an IET? I doubt the Mk4 system can be made to work with this (those in the know - can it?) - it barely works at all at the best of times!

 

[H F Stephens]

On a Mk4 or an IET? I doubt the Mk4 system can be made to work with this (those in the know - can it?) - it barely works at all at the best of times!

The test was undertaken on an IET, but as LNER's messaging makes no distinction, the point stands that their communication on the subject is inaccurate, wholly or at the very least in potentially the significant majority of cases.

 

[35B]

Well, they do say that it's good to start the day with a laugh, so I am grateful on two counts.

As anyone proposing a position should, I took the opportunity to verify the situation prior to making my post, sitting as I happened to be on an LNER service when I started reading this thread.

This provided a perfect opportunity to test the last minute reservation system.

Accordingly, I can absolutely confirm that, as of yesterday, the system does not work.

I cannot speculate as to the (or even conceive of a) reason why LNER continues to expound the notion that the system does work, nor why individual employees do so in the face of all evidence visible to any passenger who finds themselves puzzled.

Anyhow, a chuckle and point completely proven to start the day.

I am no fan of the system, and think that LNER need to make sure that electronic reservations work consistently reliably from the originating point, but I am not clear how your test proves what you suggest it does, when it appears to relate to one train on one day, and therefore cannot be controlled for the vagaries of the day.

I'd also suggest that, if making a reservation en route for myself, my key concern would be to ensure that no one takes the seat from under me. At which point, the on train indication is far less important than preventing someone from booking the seat online.

 

[MrJeeves]

Accordingly, I can absolutely confirm that, as of yesterday, the system does not work.

You cannot prove a negative.

I have seen Azumas refresh reservations enroute, and even seen them update live as we're on approach to a station.

Obviously nothing can work perfectly 100% of the time. Upstream systems may encounter issues, the train system may encounter issues, mobile signal may be too poor to download the new data, but most of the time I have seen my reservation made post-departure-from-origin appear fine.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Accordingly, I can absolutely confirm that, as of yesterday, the system does not work.

Anecdote isn't the singular of data.

When I've used the reservation system on the app it has worked for me, though I've only used it a couple of times.

 

[H F Stephens]

I am no fan of the system, and think that LNER need to make sure that electronic reservations work consistently reliably from the originating point, but I am not clear how your test proves what you suggest it does, when it appears to relate to one train on one day, and therefore cannot be controlled for the vagaries of the day.

I'd also suggest that, if making a reservation en route for myself, my key concern would be to ensure that no one takes the seat from under me. At which point, the on train indication is far less important than preventing someone from booking the seat online.

To be clear: this was not a one-off test, and we are not talking about the generic reservation system as an electronic version of what went before with paper seat-top print outs.

The heavily promoted last-minute reservation system has never worked, and this was merely an updated verification that it still does not.

Any suggestion otherwise merely serves to divert focus away from holding the train operating company to account with regard to inaccurate communication to customers.

You cannot prove a negative.

I have seen Azumas refresh reservations enroute, and even seen them update live as we're on approach to a station.

Obviously nothing can work perfectly 100% of the time. Upstream systems may encounter issues, the train system may encounter issues, mobile signal may be too poor to download the new data, but most of the time I have seen my reservation made post-departure-from-origin appear fine.

I'm going to take the position that in this particular situation, based on years of observation and a random test yesterday, that the system does not work and the negative is, practically-speaking, proven .

LNER's promotion of the system does not include any caveats, and employees repeatedly expound its universality, reliability and infallibility.

@35B makes a reasonable point above, I think, that the generic system for uploads prior to departure from point of origin doesn't work 100% of the time, although in my experience, this only affects a very small number of services and occurrences seem closely correlated with operational disruption.

Accordingly, I suspect that the reliability of the electronic system is better than the paper system ever was, when any and sometimes every short turnaround could result in no reservations being put out at all.

But the last-minute system doesn't work and that's before any discussions of whether it's a 'good idea' are embarked upon.

 

[357]

On a Mk4 or an IET? I doubt the Mk4 system can be made to work with this (those in the know - can it?) - it barely works at all at the best of times!

It was working on a MK4 set the day I started this thread.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was working on a MK4 set the day I started this thread.

As in if you were sat on the train and made a reservation from the next station on your phone the screen on the relevant seat did update?

If not, it wasn't working - your original post seems to highlight it not working - a reservation was made for a seat that was showing "available" and was at the point the reserver turned up?

 

[357]

As in if you were sat on the train and made a reservation from the next station on your phone the screen on the relevant seat did update?

If not, it wasn't working - your original post seems to highlight it not working - a reservation was made for a seat that was showing "available" and was at the point the reserver turned up?

When we got to Wakefield all the screens updated - I made a test reservation to check, and updated the thread.

 

[35B]

To be clear: this was not a one-off test, and we are not talking about the generic reservation system as an electronic version of what went before with paper seat-top print outs.

The heavily promoted last-minute reservation system has never worked, and this was merely an updated verification that it still does not.

Any suggestion otherwise merely serves to divert focus away from holding the train operating company to account with regard to inaccurate communication to customers.



I'm going to take the position that in this particular situation, based on years of observation and a random test yesterday, that the system does not work and the negative is, practically-speaking, proven .

LNER's promotion of the system does not include any caveats, and employees repeatedly expound its universality, reliability and infallibility.

@35B makes a reasonable point above, I think, that the generic system for uploads prior to departure from point of origin doesn't work 100% of the time, although in my experience, this only affects a very small number of services and occurrences seem closely correlated with operational disruption.

Accordingly, I suspect that the reliability of the electronic system is better than the paper system ever was, when any and sometimes every short turnaround could result in no reservations being put out at all.

But the last-minute system doesn't work and that's before any discussions of whether it's a 'good idea' are embarked upon.

You would be more convincing if you clarified what test(s) you undertook that give you the ability to claim to have proved the point.

 

[cuccir]

i don't understand why people don't reserve seats on LNER when it is so easy.

While it's relatively easy to reserve a seat 60, 30, 20 minutes beforehand from a computer or phone, one flaw in the system is that it is not particularly easy to reserve a specific 'orange' seat once you've found it on the train.

To do that, you need to:

* go the app or website
* know the departure time of the train from the next station
* choose to reserve a seat on that service, for which you are then given a reservation with no option to choose - indeed at this point, the customer actually receives an email with a confirmation of a reserved seat
* then and only then can you select edit to access the train map, and then scroll through several carriages, to book the seat you're on.

This isn't a trivial set of things, particularly point 2 which adds a signfiicant barrier (does the average customer memorise the intermediate stops on a service, or find it non-fiddly/awkward to look up?), and point 3 of being given a reservation first, which must cause some confusion. As far as anything else, these barriers clearly cause people who are sat in seats to be less likely to book them, which in turn means people who are reserving remotely are less confident that they won't have to argue the point over getting their reserved seat, which will in turn put people off.

The problem as I see it is that for the system to work properly, it needs an easier and more intuitive way for those people who've sat in a reservable seat to reserve it themselves. Then, people who are reserving remotely for a train that's en route would have more confidence that they're seeing what's actually available. In a perfect world, it'd be a QR code which when scanned presents you with the option to book that seat, on that service, up to a station of your choosing.

Failing that, options such as choosing a service based on its most recent departure would help, as someone sat on the 10:35 from Newcastl to Edinburgh can then choose that train once it has departed Newcastle. Even the option of entering the seat number manually or selecting it from a drop-down list before being given your first automatic seat would help a little.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It could certainly be made easier to do it. But realistically it's mostly enthusiasts who have the wherewithal to take the steps above who will want to. Like it or loathe it, LNER is rapidly moving towards a TGV like compulsory reservation model (by stealth by way of the fares "trial" and thus pricing off most unreserved travel, plus claiming reservation is compulsory even though we know it isn't, which most people will just take as read) and so the majority of passengers will reserve a seat and sit in that one. That being the case, the cost of simplifying booking the seat the person is sitting in is probably prohibitive when one considers the very small number of people who would actually do it.

Having said that, it will be interesting to see if the Avanti system of cameras to check if people are sitting in seats before allowing them to be reserved can eventually be made to work or not. And Deutsche Bahn does have something similar in the form of "Komfort Check In" which also allows one to avoid being bothered by a ticket inspection!

 

[Yorkshire09876]

In Sweden longer distance trains do not have any reservation displays but the majority of seats are reservable at any time upon payment of a fee. Those seats which are not reservable are clearly communicated on the screens at stations (e.g. "Seats 1-20 in coach 3 are unreserved"). If someone chooses to sit in a seat which can be reserved but does not pay the relevant fee then they can find it is claimed by someone who has reserved (this could be weeks in advance, or just before departure).

In my experience the system is widely understood and people who have taken a chance by not reserving move without quibble when someone claims the seat.

Disclaimer, this has been in place for many years but I have not travelled on such a train this year so there is a possibilty (slim in my view) that things have changed.

My understanding is that the same applies in Denmark but my travels there are much less frequent than Sweden - I certainly recall reserving a seat about 10 years ago on a train from Odense which had started from Aalborg hours before I made the reservation.

And what proportion of seats are actually reservable? Is it most of the train?

 

[Bletchleyite]

And what proportion of seats are actually reservable? Is it most of the train?

In Poland I don't think there is technically any unreserved area. Reservations aren't compulsory per the rules (except the IEP Pendolino services) but aren't marked and the assumption is that basically everybody will have one, though it's possible to squash on and buy a ticket from the guard if you really must which deals with the usual "but family emergency" type complaint about compulsory reservations.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

In Poland I don't think there is technically any unreserved area. Reservations aren't compulsory per the rules (except the IEP Pendolino services) but aren't marked and the assumption is that basically everybody will have one, though it's possible to squash on and buy a ticket from the guard if you really must which deals with the usual "but family emergency" type complaint about compulsory reservations.

Is this the accepted method of travel in Poland though? i.e. do passengers not have the same expectation of 'turn up and go' as those in the UK?