Delay repay help : TfW & tickets purchased here (twice)

[Lancs]

Hi all, thanks for any help you can offer.

On Thursday last week, I bought tickets here for a journey on Friday from Bristol Temple Meads (BRI) to Burnley Manchester Road (BYM) consisting of 3 tickets:
1. BRI to Chester (CTR) via Newport - anytime single via Hereford (£37) for the 12:57 from BRI to Newport arriving 13:30 and departing 13:36 for Chester on the Holyhead service arriving 16:23.
2. CTR to Manchester Victoria - advance single £9.60 - 16:28 to 17:19
3. Manchester Victoria to BYM via Rochdale - anytime day single £13.70 - 17:21 to Rochdale at 17:33 then departing at 18:17 for final arrival at BYM at 18:50.
Total £63.30

I've just realised in typing this that change in Victoria - on an itinerary from RailForums (NRS booking reference GF*****) - is only 2 minutes so not valid... however...

When the service from Newport to Chester arrived - a whole 2 carriages for a journey from Cardiff Central to Holyhead - it was full and standing only, and I was unable to board.

So, I chose to wait for the next train going in roughly the correct direction - the 14:07 to Manchester Piccadilly (arr. 17:13) which would have got me back on track for the direct service from Victoria to BYM at 18:04 which was my final scheduled train.

As this train route diverged from my booked tickets after Shrewsbury, I purchased another itinerary RailForums (NRS booking reference CP313528) from Shrewsbury to Piccadilly, but timed such that it was the same train I was already on. (£24.30). This train then had a medical emergency on-board at Nantwich station, and we were informed at Crewe that the service would be terminated at Wilmslow. Next direct service to Piccadilly was an Avanti West Coast service a few platforms over at Crewe. I was not able to board this train with an advance ticket for a TfW service from Wilmslow.

The train I got of would have formed the 16:30 TfW service to Piccadilly. The 17:30 service was cancelled. I got the 18:30 service to Piccadilly.

I paid a further £1.40 for the metrolink from Piccadilly to Victoria, and boarded the 20:04 service from there to BYM scheduled arrival 20:49 actual 20:55 versus original plan of 18:50.

So, I paid an extra £25.70 on top of the original £63.30 and arrived 2h5m late.

If I had managed to squeeze onto the 13:36 from Newport, it was 3 minutes late into Chester leaving me only 2 minutes to transfer from platform 3 to 6, which was unlikely to happen, so I would have ended up on the 19:05 from Victoria to BYM which arriving 2 minutes late, so I would have theoretically been 1h1m late on the overall journey...

QUESTION! How do I claim delay repay on that lot. The TfW system is rather complex, and doesn't seem to have options for putting in extra tickets. Also, as the original itinerary was not technically valid, would they just reject it anyway?

Any help much appreciated!

ps. All tickets were scanned at some point, either on board or at stations.

 

[30907]

Small detail: MCV to BYM is an Anytime so the departure times doesn't matter (you would have been on the same train as from CTR to MCV).

 

[Lancs]

Actually, having written that long message, I think the answer is much simpler.

The original BRI to BYM was 1h1m late so 100% delay repay.
The second Shrewsbury to Piccadilly trip ended up 2h2m late so 100% delay repay.

So, it's two seperate claims, and I'll swallow the £1.40 tram fare!

 

[30907]

Actually, having written that long message, I think the answer is much simpler.

The original BRI to BYM was 1h1m late so 100% delay repay.
The second Shrewsbury to Piccadilly trip ended up 2h2m late so 100% delay repay.

So, it's two seperate claims, and I'll swallow the £1.40 tram fare!

I would hesitate about putting in the second claim.
1. You are entitled to the full £63.30 anyway - claiming more than the original cost might be seen as fraudulent. Not saying it's wrong, but be careful.
2. Your original ticket was valid as far as Crewe. The most you needed to have paid was £17.20. Were you advised otherwise by the onboard staff?

 

[Lancs]

Thanks 30907.

1. I'm not sure they can consider anything fraudulent, I went on 2 of the 4 trains on the first itinerary, then the 2 trains on the second itinerary, and finished my journey on the last train back on the first itinerary!!

2. I did assume that as the last station on the route of both trains was Shewsbury that that was where validity would end. I was fearful of getting a ridiculous penalty for not holding a valid ticket to travel the next time I saw the on-board staff...

 

[30907]

Thanks 30907.
I did assume that as the last station on the route of both trains was Shewsbury that that was where validity would end. I was fearful of getting a ridiculous penalty for not holding a valid ticket to travel the next time I saw the on-board staff...

An unfortunate assumption. Checking with staff is usually better - they might even have sold you the correct ticket or given you permission to travel .

 

[Starmill]

You will have to submit a complaint to ask for the second ticket back. You should not claim it under delay repay as they will detect that you were claiming to be in more than one place at the same time. Obviously, there's a sensible explanation, but the form is a computer which can't know that, and which is likely to flag your claims as suspicious.

I fear you'll struggle to get your money back, as they may question why you bought the ticket you did as opposed to waiting for the next service from Crewe to Chester and then using the Northern Only ticket from there. You of course would have had a right to be re-routed to Burnley Manchester Road under the PRO, but in order to do this, Transport for Wales needs to arrange the replacement tickets, not you. Now if they'd refused to re-route you, or if contacting them (station staff, onboard staff, help point, social media message, telephone to customer service, etc are the usual options) proved not to be possible, then I don't think you would have had any choice in the matter. But if that's what were to have happened then you'd be complaining in those terms, and unfortunately it seems it isn't what happened, so you are at a disadvantage.

A lot of this will probably hinge on the mood of the member customer relations staff when they come to deal with your complaint.

If you reach stalemate on your complaint case you can ask for a 'deadlock letter' and make your complaint to the Rail Ombudsman. This won't always result in a favourable adjudication, but where it does have real value is if a) you have hard evidence of a company not following its own policy or b) you want a more senior member of the management of the company to look at your claim and whether it's sensible for them to just offer you a small cash settlement in exchange for closing out the case with the Rail Ombudsman. I would say your case falls firmly in the latter category.

Trainsplit will probably be happy to support your complaint provided that you make it in the correct terms. I would avoid doing two overlapping delay repay claims and just do one, as this will help here. If you do something that allows Transport for Wales to suggest to Trainsplit that you have committed fraud it will be more difficult for them to deal with. That said if you've already submitted two overlapping delay repay claims it's not terminal.

 

[ainsworth74]

I would agree with what's been advised above. I think it unwise to submit two Delay Repay claims for the reasons outlined. But just on this point:

I've just realised in typing this that change in Victoria - on an itinerary from RailForums (NRS booking reference GF*****) - is only 2 minutes so not valid... however...

The reason for that is that you weren't changing train you were splitting at Victoria so we were remaining on the same train at Victoria. If you go to the end of the PDF you'll find a guide telling you what tickets to use for which trains and it makes it clear there what you need to do.

 

[Lancs]

The reason for that is that you weren't changing train you were splitting at Victoria so we were remaining on the same train at Victoria. If you go to the end of the PDF you'll find a guide telling you what tickets to use for which trains and it makes it clear there what you need to do.

Thanks, makes sense, my apologies! I did wonder why I was scheduled to spend 40-odd minutes at Rochdale instead of Manchester Victoria, for a train passing through both!!