CrossCountry Class 170 Bristol Temple Meads-Cardiff Central?

[tfw756rider]

While on YouTube, I was recommended this video by Animated Journeys, titled Class 170 | Bristol TM to Cardiff Central | First Train of the day:

I didn't know this was a thing*. He explains that it runs once a day on weekdays at 05:20, as part of CrossCountry moving stock around.

*I do remember reading a thread on here from I think 2017 (which I can't find) which was about something to do with 170s and Bristol.

So has this service been running for years, or...?

 

[sir_gummerz]

This train has run for as long as ive lived in the area (4years) cardiff has no XC trains or crew based at the station, so bristol crew pass to cardiff to work trains. There is a oposit service in the evening that runs empty stock, but still goes into temple meads to drop the guard off.

link to the weekday train on realtime trains https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C23876/2025-10-13/detailed

There also used to be a 0625 departure BTM to Stansted Airport, but that was discontinued in the may timetable change and now starts at Birmingham. Worked by a 170.

On rare occasions, 170s can be used to cover voyager trains, and vice versa. However the guards are different grades (train manager vs senior conductors) so it requires both onboard to ensure that both route and traction knowledge requirements can be met, as the senior conductors dont sign most the routes that voyagers work. I have worked a voyager on a 170 service from Cardiff to Birmingham, which was strange as we called at chepstow, Ashchurch. University ect which felt very strange in a voyager.

 

[Melancholia]

There also used to be a 0625 departure BTM to Stansted Airport, but that was discontinued in the may timetable change and now starts at Birmingham. Worked by a 170.

This service is returning in the December timetable change

 

[GoneSouth]

This train has run for as long as ive lived in the area (4years) cardiff has no XC trains or crew based at the station, so bristol crew pass to cardiff to work trains. There is a oposit service in the evening that runs empty stock, but still goes into temple meads to drop the guard off.

link to the weekday train on realtime trains https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C23876/2025-10-13/detailed

There also used to be a 0625 departure BTM to Stansted Airport, but that was discontinued in the may timetable change and now starts at Birmingham. Worked by a 170.

On rare occasions, 170s can be used to cover voyager trains, and vice versa. However the guards are different grades (train manager vs senior conductors) so it requires both onboard to ensure that both route and traction knowledge requirements can be met, as the senior conductors dont sign most the routes that voyagers work. I have worked a voyager on a 170 service from Cardiff to Birmingham, which was strange as we called at chepstow, Ashchurch. University ect which felt very strange in a voyager.

As Melancholia says, the Stansted service resumes its start back in Bristol from December.

There is also a regular Voyager service from Cardiff which I think continues after December, the Cardiff-Edinburgh which calls at Chepstow, Worcestershire Parkway and University but not Ashchurch

 

[stadler]

I am just thinking that 5 hours and 15 minutes (06:25 Bristol Temple Meads to Stansted Airport 11:40) may well be a record for the longest Turbostar journey. I certainly can not think of any other Turbostar journeys that have been that long.

Have the Cross Country 170s ever been anywhere else unusual besides the occasional Manchester Piccadilly trips before? If they have a both SC (traction knowledge) and TM (route knowledge) then it sounds like they can be used elsewhere if necessary so it may have happened?

 

[tfw756rider]

Many thanks all for the replies

 

[rwblake]

I am just thinking that 5 hours and 15 minutes (06:25 Bristol Temple Meads to Stansted Airport 11:40) may well be a record for the longest Turbostar journey. I certainly can not think of any others Turbostar journeys that have been that long.

Have the Cross Country 170s ever been anywhere else unusual besides the occasional Manchester Piccadilly trips before? If they have a both SC (traction knowledge) and TM (route knowledge) then it sounds like they can be used elsewhere if necessary so it may have happened?

Do EMR operate 170s on Liverpool - Norwich services? They could be longer journeys.

 

[stadler]

I find the timetables of these odd 170 services quite interesting.

The service on Monday to Friday (05:20 Bristol Temple Meads to Cardiff Central 06:21) calls at and at reverses at Bristol Parkway for nine minutes (05:29 to 05:38) and calls at Newport for nine minutes (05:59 to 06:08) meaning the entire journey takes over an hour. Certainly a very slow journey for that distance. You would think at that time of the morning they could easily depart later and speed up the journey.

There is nothing booked on Saturday at all. But there is a Sunday service booked much later. The service on Sunday (10:22 Bristol Temple Meads to Cardiff Central 11:04) operates direct and calls at Newport (10:50 to 10:51) only.

Certainly quite an unusual timetable for these odd 170 workings.

 

[tfw756rider]

Do EMR operate 170s on Liverpool - Norwich services? They could be longer journeys.

From what I understand, occasionally yes, even though it's normally 158s.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Oct 2025 ==

I find the timetables of these odd 170 services quite interesting.

The service on Monday to Friday (05:20 Bristol Temple Meads to Cardiff Central 06:21) calls at and at reverses at Bristol Parkway for nine minutes (05:29 to 05:38) and calls at Newport for nine minutes (05:59 to 06:08) meaning the entire journey takes over an hour. Certainly a very slow journey for that distance. You would think at that time of the morning they could easily depart later and speed up the journey.

There is nothing booked on Saturday at all. But there is a Sunday service booked much later. The service on Sunday (10:22 Bristol Temple Meads to Cardiff Central 11:04) operates direct and calls at Newport (10:50 to 10:51) only.

Certainly quite an unusual timetable for these odd 170 workings.

Reply acknowledged.

 

[sir_gummerz]

1P00 the 0520 Bristol --> Cardiff and 1M00 the 0640 Cardiff --> Nottingham is actually going to run as a voyager tomorrow (Monday) due to stock issues. It will be set swapped at Birmingham for a 170

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Oct 2025 ==

As Melancholia says, the Stansted service resumes its start back in Bristol from December.

There is also a regular Voyager service from Cardiff which I think continues after December, the Cardiff-Edinburgh which calls at Chepstow, Worcestershire Parkway and University but not Ashchurch

Yep, the evening one is 1v64 and splits off a Plymouth service at Gloucester, calling then at Newport and Cardiff.

 

[stadler]

Do EMR operate 170s on Liverpool - Norwich services? They could be longer journeys.

Oh yes i forgot about those. I think there are a few booked workings. Some of those are 5 hours and 45 minutes so easily beat it. Really they ought to make all Liverpool to Norwich services operated by 170s. So much nicer and more suitable than having such a long journey on 158s.

1P00 the 0520 Bristol --> Cardiff and 1M00 the 0640 Cardiff --> Nottingham is actually going to run as a voyager tomorrow (Monday) due to stock issues. It will be set swapped at Birmingham for a 170

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Oct 2025 ==


Yep, the evening one is 1v64 and splits off a Plymouth service at Gloucester, calling then at Newport and Cardiff.

Out of interest will this mean that both a SC and TM will need to be onboard? I was wondering if now that there is that booked Voyager to Cardiff (that Edinburgh service) it means that some TM now sign the Cardiff route? Or does it still require a SC onboard too?

 

[sir_gummerz]

Oh yes i forgot about those. I think there are a few booked workings. Some of those are 5 hours and 45 minutes so easily beat it. Really they ought to make all Liverpool to Norwich services operated by 170s. So much nicer and more suitable than having such a long journey on 158s.


Out of interest will this mean that both a SC and TM will need to be onboard? I was wondering if now that there is that booked Voyager to Cardiff (that Edinburgh service) it means that some TM now sign the Cardiff route? Or does it still require a SC onboard too?

You are right, TMs at multiple depos sign cardiff and have done for years as its a division from bristol parkway to Cheltenham if the mainlines blocked. There is no need to be route conducted.

The same applies for Leicester. As some TMs sign it as a division between Birmingham and derby

 

[vicbury]

1P00 the 0520 Bristol --> Cardiff and 1M00 the 0640 Cardiff --> Nottingham is actually going to run as a voyager tomorrow (Monday) due to stock issues. It will be set swapped at Birmingham for a 170

A Voyager calling at Lydney? Dammit, I'm going in the opposite direction tomorrow!

 

[dk1]

Do EMR operate 170s on Liverpool - Norwich services? They could be longer journeys.

09:51 (SX) Liverpool Lime St - Norwich and 15:48 return are 170 diagrams.

 

[transportphoto]

09:51 (SX) Liverpool Lime St - Norwich and 15:48 return are 170 diagrams.

Off topic for this thread but lots more to come from December timetable change.

 

[dk1]

Off topic for this thread but lots more to come from December timetable change.

So I heard. Thanks.

 

[chubs]

Really they ought to make all Liverpool to Norwich services operated by 170s. So much nicer and more suitable than having such a long journey on 158s.

In the Central Trains days they were all 170s! The 158 swap was meant to add more seats IIRC (as some parts could be 4 car).

 

[eastwestdivide]

In the Central Trains days they were all 170s! The 158 swap was meant to add more seats IIRC (as some parts could be 4 car).

That Liverpool-Norwich working is 2x3-car 170s as far as Nottingham. e.g. today's:

Realtime Trains | 1L09 0951 Liverpool Lime Street to Norwich | 13/10/2025

Real-time train running information for 1L09 0951 departure from Liverpool Lime Street to Norwich on 13/10/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[GoneSouth]

In the Central Trains days they were all 170s! The 158 swap was meant to add more seats IIRC (as some parts could be 4 car).

Before that they were all 158s when the 158s were new. First ride I had on a 158 was Nottingham to Manchester. They were great then and still are today (I’m fortunate enough to have shorter than average legs so the leg room problem for some isn’t a problem for me).

 

[M60lad]

I'm pretty sure in Central Trains days you also got a mix match of units on Nottingham-Liverpool's with 158x170 being commonplace.