Removing trains from departure boards early…

[DynamicSpirit]

The whole point is not to encourage running.

Which is basically self-defeating. If you know that trains are hidden from the departure screens a few minutes before departure and you know which platform trains to your destination usually go from, then you're quite likely to run anyway.

Probably not an issue at Brighton, but if it's a turn-up-and-go service and the first train showing on the boards is far enough in the future to make it look plausible that that's actually the second train, and the boards have hidden the next departure, then I will almost always run on the off-chance that I can get a train that's not showing. Whereas if the boards always showed the next undeparted train, then I might decide from the boards that even running gives me not much chance of catching it, and so not run. This means that, at for example Elizabeth line stations, the practice of not showing imminent departures means I end up running down the escalators more often, not less often.

 

[mangyiscute]

I've seen plenty of people running for trains that are sitting at Paddington despite it not leaving for at least 5 minutes (or even running down the train to get to the front)

 

[takno]

I've seen plenty of people running for trains that are sitting at Paddington despite it not leaving for at least 5 minutes (or even running down the train to get to the front)

That's pretty much to be expected. Trains disappearing off the board early and stations covered with messages about the doors shutting early. Customers pushed to buy advance tickets which become worthless if the train is missed. Constant nagging about yellow lines and handrails. People are bound to worry and hustle.

 

[MKB]

Just because a train has been removed from the departures board, it doesn't mean that it will actually depart at the scheduled time. Last-minute issues can still delay it, which means that some late passengers walking to the train might have made it safely if only they'd been given its location.

 

[yorkie]

Which is basically self-defeating...

The UK railway system is operated in an inferior way to many European railways, however you are never going to get those people who are keen to promote the status quo to accept that.

I've seen plenty of people running for trains that are sitting at Paddington despite it not leaving for at least 5 minutes (or even running down the train to get to the front)

Absolutely; I am increasingly seeing people run with several minutes to go, as passengers are starting to realise that trains can depart 2 minutes early.

However, your very valid point is not going to be accepted by those who support the inferior way we operate in this country.

 

[saismee]

The other day at Cambridge I saw dozens of people running to get onto the very rear door of a 720 ready to depart. I casually walked down the train to find a "comfortable" seat because I could clearly see the OFF indicator was unlit so it was unable to depart anyway. A quick check of OTT showed that another train was passing so it was unable to depart anyway.

I work gateline and frequently see people desperate and begging to be let through the barriers without having their ticket ready because their train is about to depart. Of course a some people miss their trains due to this, but it also goes the other way. People do the same thing with 5+ minutes before departure, even though their train is only a 10 second walk from the barriers.

You can't really do much to prevent people from running. Removing trains from boards sort of patronises the public and acts as if they can't be trusted to walk safely. It's yet another case where a few people ruin it for the rest.

 

[Falcon1200]

as passengers are starting to realise that trains can depart 2 minutes early.

Where do UK trains depart 2 minutes early? That is something I have NEVER experienced in 50 years of train travel.

 

[MKB]

Lower accident rates might be better achieved by investing in concourse and platform surfaces that are less slippy in the wet.

 

[jon0844]

Lower accident rates might be better achieved by investing in concourse and platform surfaces that are less slippy in the wet.

You'll never manage that because not everyone will be wearing suitable footwear.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Oct 2025 ==

You can't really do much to prevent people from running. Removing trains from boards sort of patronises the public and acts as if they can't be trusted to walk safely. It's yet another case where a few people ruin it for the rest.

As long as staff don't tell people to run, I don't see the issue.

 

[Tester]

Where do UK trains depart 2 minutes early? That is something I have NEVER experienced in 50 years of train travel.

To be pedantic, access to platforms may be denied from 2 minutes before departure. That is the time which matters to a passenger.

If you have NEVER experienced this, you have done well!

 

[yorkie]

... if it's a turn-up-and-go service and the first train showing on the boards is far enough in the future to make it look plausible that that's actually the second train, and the boards have hidden the next departure...

At East Croydon, the displays on the footbridge frequently show the train after the actual next train. When you get down the stairs, if you simply board the train on the basis of what the screens advertised, you could head to the wrong destination or even the wrong direction.

Staff attitudes on this matter vary wildly.

A member of platform staff admitted to me it was an awful system and encouraged me to complain. Another one, who claimed to be the on duty manager , said that this system prevents running and that it is better that incorrect information be displayed than people run. Another said that passengers should not rely on those screens and should re-check screens on the platform.

 

[etr221]

At East Croydon, the displays on the footbridge frequently show the train after the actual next train. When you get down the stairs, if you simply board the train on the basis of what the screens advertised, you could head to the wrong destination or even the wrong direction.

Staff attitudes on this matter vary wildly.

A member of platform staff admitted to me it was an awful system and encouraged me to complain. Another one, who claimed to be the on duty manager , said that this system prevents running and that it is better that incorrect information be displayed than people run. Another said that passengers should not rely on those screens and should re-check screens on the platform.

It may prevent running, but lead to people getting on the wrong train.

Happened to me - the display in the concourse entry hall had been updated to show the ~.10 past, went down to platform, where there was the (right sort of) train, got on it, and at ~.07 it departed - not 3 minutes early, but the previous train (gone from display), 3 late. Fortunately, it was going to where I wanted, but if not? It's no good saying recheck - people were hussling to get it away (only later am I looking at time, and I 'know' its the right train).

Question: if a train departs in the wrong direction, is using the emergency alarm justifiable?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

It may prevent running, but lead to people getting on the wrong train.

Which then leads to a very high chance of them running as soon as they manage to get off the wrong train because they are now likely to be very late and very desperate to get to their actual destination (especially if - very plausible at East Croydon - their actual intended destination was Gatwick Airport to catch a flight).

 

[Purple Train]

Absolutely; I am increasingly seeing people run with several minutes to go, as passengers are starting to realise that trains can depart 2 minutes early.

However, your very valid point is not going to be accepted by those who support the inferior way we operate in this country.

I do this. I know that the train will not randomly depart early. I still run. It is completely irrational on my part. I am sure that I am not the only one.

 

[yorkie]

Where do UK trains depart 2 minutes early? That is something I have NEVER experienced in 50 years of train travel.

LNER do this sometimes.

I personally witnessed it at Doncaster a couple of weeks ago; the 20:05 to Leeds started moving just before the clock turned 20:03. I asked if it was policy and the platform staff said yes it was. An LNER social media representative said it wasn't policy to depart 2 minutes early but that it is their policy that the doors can be locked 2 minutes before departure.

If LNER management were let loose in various countries which know how to run railways better than we do in Britain, they'd soon be reigned in and told to behave themselves, but here in GB, various anti-passenger policies seem to be encouraged by DfT, let alone tolerated.

It may prevent running, but lead to people getting on the wrong train...

I agree that this is a big concern, however the on duty 'station supervisor' at East Croydon, I spoke to back in July was absolutely adamant that the policy did prevent running and that it was the right thing to do, even if people get the wrong train. I decided not to argue with him further, as I am well aware that type of indoctrinated individual cannot be reasoned with.

I told the supervisor some of his platform staff disagreed with the policy; he wanted to know which ones. But no way was I going to get them into trouble for speaking the truth, so I declined to tell him.

 

[The exile]

You'll never manage that because not everyone will be wearing suitable footwear

Is there any footwear that guarantees grip on wet terrazzo tiling?

 

[Dr Day]

It is a fine line, but being strict at the origin and ensuring a bang on right time departure could make the difference to the punctuality for the rest of the journey and ultimately be pro more passengers than anti the few stragglers who you didn’t wait for.

 

[yorkie]

It is a fine line, but being strict at the origin and ensuring a bang on right time departure could make the difference to the punctuality for the rest of the journey and ultimately be pro more passengers than anti the few stragglers who you didn’t wait for.

But is there any evidence of this?

If locking doors before advertised departure - even when the train will soon encounter an adverse signal - is such a successful strategy, why don't successful operators such as SBB implement this?

 

[renegademaster]

Their's a really simple solution to inconsistent door closed times and that's doing what many other countries do and advertising the door closed times and not the actual departure. But it's "not invented here" and too much hassle to add the few lines of code to the timetable and PIS software, so it won't happen

 

[The exile]

It is a fine line, but being strict at the origin and ensuring a bang on right time departure could make the difference to the punctuality for the rest of the journey and ultimately be pro more passengers than anti the few stragglers who you didn’t wait for.

Don’t think anyone’s suggesting waiting for stragglers in the normal run of things - merely not making it harder for those who were in time to catch their train but couldn’t because it had already vanished from the boards.

 

[Tester]

It is a fine line, but being strict at the origin and ensuring a bang on right time departure could make the difference to the punctuality for the rest of the journey and ultimately be pro more passengers than anti the few stragglers who you didn’t wait for.

The fine line is to publish the time for closing the doors, and not close the doors before that time. Then everyone knows where they stand. Anything beyond that is an internal railway matter, of no concern to the passenger.

Any cut offs of information display are arbitrary, and add no value.

This is done elsewhere, day in, day out, and could be done here if anyone actually cared enough.

 

[bahnause]

It is a fine line, but being strict at the origin and ensuring a bang on right time departure could make the difference to the punctuality for the rest of the journey and ultimately be pro more passengers than anti the few stragglers who you didn’t wait for.

With 25 years of experience in railway operations, I can only reiterate: In a busy network, a train that runs too early is just as unhelpful as one that runs too late. The only difference is that in the former case, paying passengers were left behind.

It is well known that in practice, trains cannot depart exactly at the times specified in the public timetable. This can be taken into account in the timetable and in route planning.

 

[zwk500]

You'd have to be pretty close to a door when the close alarm starts to be able to get on board before it actually closes.

Although that doesn't stop people trying from fairly far away and banging on the door as the train starts to move off.

 

[Highlander1]

Seems to be a regular occurrence at Waverley and Haymarket during events when trains are full and standing to avoid people trying to board already packed trains.

 

[Krokodil]

Seems to be a regular occurrence at Waverley and Haymarket during events when trains are full and standing to avoid people trying to board already packed trains.

If the train is as full as it can safely be loaded then closing the doors to prevent more people joining is absolutely the right approach - and there's no point waiting time if no one can physically get on. Obviously action needs to be taken to ensure that it remains an exceptional occurrence, such as strengthening trains, running specials, providing standby buses etc. Unfortunately with the exception of buses (which get hired in) and the odd LSL charter the only way to run extras these days must involve capital investment in extra rolling stock, something the DfT is loathe to do - even when the daily service struggles, never mind event days. Ultimately though you're not going to decamp an 80k seater stadium in one cycle of trains so that's why stations like Cardiff Central have elaborate queuing systems for event days.

 

[Highlander1]

If the train is as full as it can safely be loaded then closing the doors to prevent more people joining is absolutely the right approach - and there's no point waiting time if no one can physically get on. Obviously action needs to be taken to ensure that it remains an exceptional occurrence, such as strengthening trains, running specials, providing standby buses etc. Unfortunately with the exception of buses (which get hired in) and the odd LSL charter the only way to run extras these days must involve capital investment in extra rolling stock, something the DfT is loathe to do - even when the daily service struggles, never mind event days. Ultimately though you're not going to decamp an 80k seater stadium in one cycle of trains so that's why stations like Cardiff Central have elaborate queuing systems for event days.

This is where Scotrail fall down. In particular the lack of diesel rolling stock Monday to Saturday. The fleet is stretched far to thinly and there is absolutely nothing available to strengthen services. I realise their hands are largely tied by Transport Scotland. That being said there's nothing worse then being stuck on a full and standing 3 car 170 and going past Haymarket depot seeing 170s/158s sitting idle on a Sunday.

 

[Krokodil]

This is where Scotrail fall down. In particular the lack of diesel rolling stock Monday to Saturday.

Similar issues in this part of the world

 

[RJ]

Station departure boards aren’t the only way to find which platform a train is going from. But if you are reliant on them, you have to accept you may be at a disadvantage, or miss a train that was possible to catch in some circumstances.

Personally I make use of live maps and headcodes if starting at a station like Euston or Paddington - I’m the type to turn up 20 minutes before so I can get my preferred seat and relax, rather than aim to be at the station the minute the train departs. It’s not failproof however, as sets get swapped which is why I don’t actually pass through gates/enter the platform until the train is called.

For tight connections, I will check the live departure boards on my phone so no time is wasted hunting for information once off the train - text only sites not plagued with useless graphics work best.

 

[Trainbike46]

It is a fine line, but being strict at the origin and ensuring a bang on right time departure could make the difference to the punctuality for the rest of the journey and ultimately be pro more passengers than anti the few stragglers who you didn’t wait for.

The solution to that in the vast majority of places is to advertise the time you lock the doors in the passenger facing timetable, and have the later time in the WTT.

So in places where the lock the doors 1 minute before departure (more is excessive), instead advertise the departure time 1 minute early.

Also I've seen LNER depart almost ten minutes early (more than 5 years ago, from a set-down only stop)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Oct 2025 ==

Question: if a train departs in the wrong direction, is using the emergency alarm justifiable?

I'm sure you know this, but absolutely not. Those should only be used in emergencies, as in if there is a safety issue

 

[zwk500]

The solution to that in the vast majority of places is to advertise the time you lock the doors in the passenger facing timetable, and have the later time in the WTT.

So in places where the lock the doors 1 minute before departure (more is excessive), instead advertise the departure time 1 minute early.

And, IMO, is what should be done at Termini or major stations with long dwells. It's less needed at less busy stations, and if the dwell is short can then require the arrival time being offset 1 minute to avoid the train being advertised to depart before it arrives, which then impacts late running.

Also I've seen LNER depart almost ten minutes early (more than 5 years ago, from a set-down only stop)

Set-down only means the stop is unadvertised at the station (so won't be on departure boards) and therefore it's 100% normal that once the passengers have alighted the train doesn't wait around for the booked departure time if there's no reason to.
If people try and chance it because they've got used to the patterns of the timetable then it's a shame they might miss it but ultimately the railway never advertised that service as being available to them.