Trivia: Stations that are not managed by the main operator that calls there?

[stadler]

We seem to have a large amount of stations that are managed by an operator that calls less than another operator. So i am trying to make a full list of these. I can think of roughly thirty off the top of my head but i am sure there are others too.

I am splitting this list in to three separate categories as follows below.

Stations where all operators offer a frequent service but the one that manages it calls less frequently than the other ones:

• Baldock (managed GN / more calls TL)
• Barking (managed C2C / more calls LU)
• Burgess Hill (managed SN / more calls TL)
• Dunbar (managed SR / more calls LNER/TPE/XC)
• East Linton (managed SR / more calls TPE)
• Heathrow Airport T123 (managed HX / more calls EL)
• Hastings (managed SE / more calls SN)
• Havant (managed SWR / more calls SN)
• Hitchin (managed GN / more calls TL)
• March (managed GA / more calls XC)
• Royston (managed GN / more calls TL)
• Saint Leonards Warrior Square (managed SE / more calls SN)
• Shenfield (managed GA / more calls EL)
• Stansted Airport (managed GA / more calls SX)
• Swanwick (managed SWR / more calls SN)
• Three Bridges (managed SN / more calls TL)
• Upminster (managed C2C / more calls LU)
• Woolston (managed SWR / more calls SN)

Stations where the operator that manages the station only provides a very limited service:

• Alnmouth (managed NO / most calls LNER/TPE/XC)
• Ashwell & Morden (managed GN / most calls TL)
• Balcombe (managed SN / most calls TL)
• Bearley (managed WMR / most calls CH)
• Berkswell (managed WMR / most calls LNWR)
• Biggleswade (managed GN / most calls TL)
• Canley (managed WMR / most calls LNWR)
• Chester Le Street (managed NO / most calls TPE)
• Claverdon (managed WMR / most calls CH)
• Earlswood (managed SN / most calls TL)
• Faygate (managed SN / most calls TL)
• Hampton In Arden (managed WMR / most calls LNWR)
• Higham (managed SE / most calls TL)
• Horley (managed SN / most calls TL)
• Huntingdon (managed GN / most calls TL)
• Ifield (managed SN / most calls TL)
• Littlehaven (managed SN / most calls TL)
• Longport (managed EMR / most calls LNWR)
• Melton Mowbray (managed EMR / most calls XC)
• Oakham (managed EMR / most calls XC)
• Saint Neots (managed GN / most calls TL)
• Salfords (managed SN / most calls TL)
• Stamford (managed EMR / most calls XC)
• Tile Hill (managed WMR / most calls LNWR)

Stations where the operator that manages the station does not call at the station at all:

• Arlesey (managed GN / all calls TL)
• Bat & Ball (managed SE / all calls TL)
• Burton On Trent (managed EMR / all calls XC)
• Coleshill Parkway (managed LNWR / all calls XC)
• Eynsford (managed SE / all calls TL)
• Greenfield (managed NO / all calls TPE)
• Heathrow Airport T4 (managed HX / all calls EL)
• Hinckley (managed EMR / all calls XC)
• Lockerbie (managed SR / all calls AWC/TPE)
• Marsden (managed NO / all calls TPE)
• Mossley (managed NO / all calls TPE)
• Narborough (managed EMR / all calls XC)
• Penkridge (managed WMR / all calls LNWR)
• Reston (managed SR / all calls LNER/TPE)
• Sandy (managed GN / all calls TL)
• Shoreham (managed SE / all calls TL)
• Slaithwaite (managed NO / all calls TPE)
• South Wigston (managed EMR / all calls XC)
• Stone (managed WMR / all calls LNWR)
• Water Orton (manged LNWR / all calls XC)
• Willington (manged EMR / all calls XC)
• Wilnecote (managed LNWR / all calls XC)

I know a couple on my list are technically brands rather than operators but i have included them anyway as each station is still managed by an individual brand.

Can anyone think of any other similar stations to the above where the main operator is not the operator that manages the station.

 

[Magdalia]

Stansted Airport (managed GA / more calls SX)

Stansted Express is not a separate operator, it is run by Greater Anglia.

Royston (managed GN / more calls TL)

Great Northern has most calls at Royston (except on Saturdays).

Ely is managed by Greater Anglia but Great Northern have more trains.

Cambridge and Cambridge North are managed by Greater Anglia, and they have most trains, but Great Northern are the biggest operators on passenger numbers.

 

[generalnerd]

I don’t think Heathrow terminals are ran by the Heathrow express in the same way other stations are ran by an operator, as the Heathrow rail loop is, I’m pretty sure, privately owned and operated in its entirety

 

[stadler]

Stansted Express is not a separate operator, it is run by Greater Anglia.


Great Northern has most calls at Royston (except on Saturdays).

Ely is managed by Greater Anglia but Great Northern have more trains.

Cambridge and Cambridge North are managed by Greater Anglia, and they have most trains, but Great Northern are the biggest operators on passenger numbers.

Royston appears to be 2tph in each direction TL service and 1tph in each direction GN service on the Monday to Friday timetable. So it seems that TL is actually the more frequent caller.

I forgot about Ely as well. For some reason i thought that GN managed that station.

I am aware the SX is only a brand. But i am including brands for the purpose of this just like i have with the GTR brands as each station is still run by an individual brand.

I don’t think Heathrow terminals are ran by the Heathrow express in the same way other stations are ran by an operator, as the Heathrow rail loop is, I’m pretty sure, privately owned and operated in its entirety

It is privately owned by Heathrow Airport and they own Heathrow Express as well. From what i can see on the National Rail Enquiries site it says that HX manage the three stations.

 

[pdeaves]

Stations where the operator that manages the station does not call at the station at all:

I refer you to http://www.railwaycodes.org.uk/stations/notserved.shtm that might be of interest.

 

[renegademaster]

Isn't GTR one operating unit for station staff? Their jackets have all 4 logos (TL/GN/SN/Gx) on them whenever I've seen it

 

[marsker]

Thornaby and Middlesbrough both qualify, managed by TPE with far more trains operated by Northern.

 

[D1537]

The most obvious LNER example is Wakefield Westgate with far more NT/XC.

Berwick-upon-Tweed should be in the first list, LNER are a minority caller there to XC and TPE (and will be even more from December).

Retford is of course an oddity because of its layout but is nevertheless an LNER station and has more Northern/HT services.

Grantham currently belongs in the first list (about half-a-dozen fewer LNER than EMR/HT together), though it will go back to being the majority in December.

Northallerton has slightly fewer TPE than LNER+GC.

Oxenholme has more NT/TP services than Avanti.

 

[Andyh82]

I would guess that quite a lot of stations that are managed by an ‘intercity’ TOC will have more calls by the local operator, places like Doncaster, Wakefield Westgate, Sheffield, York etc

 

[Elecman]

WMR and LNWR ( as you call it) are the same company

 

[Magdalia]

Royston appears to be 2tph in each direction TL service and 1tph in each direction GN service on the Monday to Friday timetable. So it seems that TL is actually the more frequent caller.

You are missing the large number of Great Northern Kings Cross-Ely/Kings Lynn trains that call at Royston*. The Great Northern Kings Cross-Cambridge service is 2tph except for 2 short periods in the middle of the day and in the evening. Taken together Great Northern exceed the 2tph Thameslink service by a comfortable margin.

* down road 1T94/06-12/44-72, up road 1T01-17/47/51/55/71/97, total 34 trains.

I am aware the SX is only a brand. But i am including brands for the purpose of this just like i have with the GTR brands as each station is still run by an individual brand.

Great Northern and Thameslink are separate: they have different codes GN and TL on Real Time trains.

Stansted Express run as LE on Real Time Trains, just like the rest of Greater Anglia.

 

[NSE]

Isn't GTR one operating unit for station staff? Their jackets have all 4 logos (TL/GN/SN/Gx) on them whenever I've seen it

No, they’re totally separate.

 

[JD2168]

Sheffield qualifies for this. Managed by EMR but Northern serve it far more often per hour

 

[NSE]

I want to say that I read on here that station operators where chosen on who carries more carriages through (I.e. more pax). So, using Hastings as an example, SE run 2tph, both 8 carriages, so 16 carriages per hour. SN run 3tph, and run 8 carriages to Victoria, 3 to Ashford and 4 to Brighton, so 15 carriages, giving SE the most vehicles through the station, despite less overall tph. Not sure if that’s true, but I suppose it’s a sort of rule of thumb that makes sense.

 

[enginedin]

Given that Network Rail don't run any trains, the 20 stations that they manage should all be on the list too(!?!)

 

[stadler]

I want to say that I read on here that station operators where chosen on who carries more carriages through (I.e. more pax). So, using Hastings as an example, SE run 2tph, both 8 carriages, so 16 carriages per hour. SN run 3tph, and run 8 carriages to Victoria, 3 to Ashford and 4 to Brighton, so 15 carriages, giving SE the most vehicles through the station, despite less overall tph. Not sure if that’s true, but I suppose it’s a sort of rule of thumb that makes sense.

If that is the case then Hastings actually gets far more Southern carriages per hour than Southeastern carriages per hour. The normal off peak Southeastern frequency is 1tph 8car London stopper and 1tph 8car London fast making a total of 16cars per hour. The normal off peak Southern frequency is 1tph 8car London and 1tph 8car Ore and 1tph 4car Brighton and 1tph 4car Ore and 1tph 3car Eastbourne and 1tph 3car Ashford making a total of 30cars per hour. So almost double the amount of Southern carriages compared to Southeastern carriages.

 

[NSE]

If that is the case then Hastings actually gets far more Southern carriages per hour than Southeastern carriages per hour. The normal off peak Southeastern frequency is 1tph 8car London stopper and 1tph 8car London fast making a total of 16cars per hour. The normal off peak Southern frequency is 1tph 8car London and 1tph 8car Ore and 1tph 4car Brighton and 1tph 4car Ore and 1tph 3car Eastbourne and 1tph 3car Ashford making a total of 30cars per hour. So almost double the amount of Southern carriages compared to Southeastern carriages.

A good point. However I want to say it included the SE as separate services, so 16 carriages arriving and 16 departing, so 32 in total. I can’t recall which thread it was in.

 

[KN94]

Mossley, Greenfield, Marsden, Slaithwaite - all operated by Northern but only see TPE services
Conversely, Manchester Airport and Hull. Operated by TPE but more Northern services.

 

[swt_passenger]

I want to say that I read on here that station operators where chosen on who carries more carriages through (I.e. more pax). So, using Hastings as an example, SE run 2tph, both 8 carriages, so 16 carriages per hour. SN run 3tph, and run 8 carriages to Victoria, 3 to Ashford and 4 to Brighton, so 15 carriages, giving SE the most vehicles through the station, despite less overall tph. Not sure if that’s true, but I suppose it’s a sort of rule of thumb that makes sense.

In the general case, station operators just cover logical geographic areas, and in most cases have been left as they were in the 1990s, I don’t believe there’s a routine process of auditing calls/capacity and changing operator if numbers of vehicles slightly changes.

There have been a few transfers following up permanent changes to service patterns, there’s a local, (to me), example where minor stations between Southampton and Salisbury were changed from GW to SW, but that happened quite a few years after the service operator changed. Apparently altering the PA and PIS sources isn’t a 5 minute job…

 

[TrainzBK]

Mossley, Greenfield, Marsden, Slaithwaite - all operated by Northern but only see TPE services
Conversely, Manchester Airport and Hull. Operated by TPE but more Northern services.

Mossley, Greenfield, Marsden and Slaithwaite are supposed to eventually be receiving a Northern service again in the future hence why they never transferred over to TPE.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Macclesfield managed by Avanti, but they generally only stop 1tph in each direction, as do Northern. However, CrossCountry serve the station with 2tph in each direction.

 

[William3000]

No, they’re totally separate.

they certainly don’t feel separate -TL and GN use rolling stock interchangeably

 

[plugwash]

I would guess that quite a lot of stations that are managed by an ‘intercity’ TOC will have more calls by the local operator, places like Doncaster, Wakefield Westgate, Sheffield, York etc

I'd imagine that at least outside the southeast, many stations see more local trains than intercity ones, but the intercity trains are often much longer so the intercity operator runs similar or more total carriages.

Taking as an example, at stockport IIRC in the daytime northern run 2TPH in each direction on the hazel grove line, 2TPH in each direction on the wilmslow line, 1TPH in each direction on the macclesfield line and, 1TPH in each direction on the altrincham line. Avanti when running the full timetable run 3TPH in each direction, but typical northern trains are 2-4 cars, while avanti trains are 9-11 cars.

 

[mickey]

Maidenhead, run by GWR but has more Crossrail services. Depending on the time of day, also potentially Slough.

 

[bearhugger]

Middlesbrough & Thornaby are operated by TransPennine Express but have more Northern services. Not too sure who operates Eaglescliffe at the moment.

 

[D1537]

Middlesbrough & Thornaby are operated by TransPennine Express but have more Northern services. Not too sure who operates Eaglescliffe at the moment.

Northern. Thirsk, Northallerton, Yarm, Thornaby and Middlesbrough are the only TPE stations north of York.

 

[NSE]

they certainly don’t feel separate -TL and GN use rolling stock interchangeably

This was in response to someone saying they thought stations are one operating unit throughout GTR. They aren’t. SNGX, TL and GN stations are all separate in terms of staffing and operation.

Rolling stock is a different section.

 

[Ridercross]

Tamworth is managed by LNWR with generally hourly trains to Euston and Crewe, but the majority of trains serving it are actually CrossCountry.

 

[bluesfromagun]

Lockerbie. Managed and staffed by ScotRail, on a route that ScotRail do not serve at all.

 

[Horizon22]

Maidenhead, run by GWR but has more Crossrail services. Depending on the time of day, also potentially Slough.

Even including the Bourne End branch? I think at peak times it may be even.