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Re-opening rail line to St Andrews rejected by Scottish Government

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edwin_m

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Transport Scotland does conduct strategic reviews, with plans oriented around five year control periods.


The obvious flip side applies too, i.e. that trains are much harder to (re)introduce!
Also this one: https://www.transport.gov.scot/our-approach/strategy/strategic-transport-projects-review-2/
In 2019, Transport Scotland, the national transport agency of the Scottish Government, commenced the second Strategic Transport Projects Review, the first review having been published in 2008. It will help deliver the vision, priorities and outcomes that are set out in the second National Transport Strategy (NTS2).

This review of the strategic transport network’s performance will inform transport investment in Scotland for the next 20 years (2022-2042) by providing evidence-based recommendations on which Scottish Ministers can base future transport investment decisions.

STPR2 considers the transport needs of Scotland’s people and communities, and examines active travel (walking, wheeling, cycling), bus, ferry, rail and motorways and trunk roads as well as passenger and freight access to major ports and airports. These needs are reviewed from national and regional perspectives to reflect their different geographies, travel patterns and demands.

STPR2 provides an overview of transport investment, mainly infrastructure and other behavioural change recommendations, that are required to deliver the National Transport Strategy priorities and objectives of the Review.
So it sits underneath the National Transport Strategy with a bit more detail on what the specific projects might be. The contents list of the summary report doesn't list out any obvious rail openings, though there may be some buried in other projects.
 
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W-on-Sea

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As a graduate of St Andrews, I can only regretfully agree with the conclusion that reopening the railway line as a shuttle from Leuchars is utterly unrealistic and unviable.

Stagecoach have done such a good and inventive job in recent decades creating and running high-quality and increasingly frequent bus services from Leuchars and Dundee, and coach services from Edinburgh and Glasgow, that the public transport needs of connecting the town with major destinations further afield are already covered adequately - and indeed probably rather more conveniently than would be the case if the railway did reopen. And there is no prospect of the reopening of this railway line serving any kind of regeneration.
 

John R

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Just looking now, buses seem to be running every 5 minutes, which would appear to suggest the current provision is reasonably frequent to make connections with rail at Leuchars pretty reliable.
IMG_2409.jpeg
 

Bald Rick

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In answer to this question, it's interesting how they're different, and it might be helpful to give some insight into why they are different.

Levenmouth was a special case, for three reasons.

Firstly, the line was in railway ownership, the formation was intact, although in need of repairs, and there was an existing connection with the big railway. That's important because you don't have to negotiate with landowners, you don't need to do option sifting for an alignment, and you have a way of bringing materials in and out by train.

The cost of deciding which route to build, the costs of buying land, and taking the whole project through several levels of the legal process, is astronomical. You have to pay the salaries of every single person who is doing ground investigations or detailed design work, lawyers negotiating with landowners, and pay for the full legal process itself, for several years before you even put a spade in the ground.

Buying the land in St Andrews would be outrageous. The land owned by the golf courses and the university is some of the most expensive in Scotland, and although they would say that they are supportive, in reality, they'd be holding the line up with demands about where the line can go, and how much land they're willing to part with. This process itself would take at least a year.

In comparison, the Levenmouth line was open. It was unused, but it was still an open railway, legally speaking. Anything you do on the line is a permitted development, and all we needed was planning permission for the stations. By comparison, that was a walk in the park.


Secondly, the junction at the main line was there already. That's important because renewing the junction is a renewal, and the signalling interface with the main line already exists. It's much easier to build something 'offline' if it already has it's interface with the 'online' bit. All they had to do at Thornton was a renewal of the signalling and points, built the rest of the signalling on the branch, and plug it in on the end.

At Leuchars, by comparison, you'd be building an absolute minimum of three point ends, a new junction, and a new interface with the big railway. The reason that's a £60m one-off cost is that you're ripping out what's there already, and resignalling, putting something new in. A like for like replacement is easy, adding something onto the end of a branch line is middling, a full new junction, and all the resignalling that triggers, is very hard. What's to say that if you started messing around with the signalling at Leuchars, that wouldn't have to trigger a full resignalling; it might be covered by legacy rights, but that goes away as soon as you start putting new bits in.


Thirdly, the marginal cost of serving Levenmouth was very small. The Fife Circle timetable meant that the cost was an extra diagram and driver, because you can extend services that are already there. It was very obvious how you'd serve it, and you get a lot of value out of that.

St Andrews by comparison is a bit screwed. Either you serve it as a shuttle, which is paying for three or four extra drivers who basically sit doing a ten minute shuttle twice an hour, or you connect it in. As soon as you connect it in, then you start making journey times longer, or needing extra services, all of which costs a lot in ongoing operational expenditure.


The combination of these three makes it materially different, and not for the better. I've been trying to think of comparisons, and although there aren't any, I think the two closest are Devizes and Leigh. Both used to have lines, both served by a nearby 'parkway' esque station, both somewhat affluent, but both will forever be stuck without a station, because they're just too awkward to serve.

There’s a 4). In 2020, Levenmouth had over a quarter of Fife’s most socially / economically deprived zones. NE Fife, which includes St Andrews, had 1%. Reopening the Leven branch was designed to improve connectivity and give those residents better access to better paid jobs etc to help improve the local economy and bring it out of the socio-economic deprivation. That is just not needed in St Andrews. Call it McLevelling up.

but don't you think the country needs some kind of strategic rail review?

Be careful what you wish for. Were such a review conducted I fear it would spell the end for many horribly uneconomic branch lines and stations.
 

najaB

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Just looking now, buses seem to be running every 5 minutes, which would appear to suggest the current provision is reasonably frequent to make connections with rail at Leuchars pretty reliable.
As noted above, the buses are frequent enough that they don't even need to line up to the timetable, other than at the very start and end of the day. Otherwise it's basically at least every ten minutes from 0600 to 2000 and every twenty minutes until 0020.
 

stevieinselby

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Do Stagecoach bother to make every effort to time their routes with the trains?
Buses run every 8–10 minutes. At that frequency, you don't need to worry about connections.
I would say there is a point whilst buses remain privatised, they can change and be cut at a moment's notice. There's no one there to make Scotrail and Stagecoach always work together. Maybe Scottish councils are more resilient with their funding but cuts to English counties subsidising buses shows how quickly things can change. Only needs a company like Arriva up there and an 8 minute frequency, becomes 12 then 15 then suddenly its only every half hour. I know it's much less likely in a town with a university but cuts of this kind have happened over decades.
Under the current privatised network, the service runs every 8–10 minutes. There is no reason to believe that the service is likely to decline if demand for travel is as strong as the pro-rail lobby makes out.
It seems to have really benefitted Leven, so why not bigger St Andrews?
The Levenmouth urban area has about twice the population of St Andrews. The fact that the township of Leven is smaller is misleading, the Leven and Cameron Bridge stations serve the wider populations of Methil, Buckhaven, Windygates and Kennoway, as well as acting as a railhead for villages along the coast to Largo and Anstruther. St Andrews station, on the other hand, would serve the town of St Andrews and not really anything much beyond that.
I do feel St Andrews is a special case.

Although its population is not huge, it has significant tourist traffic, as well as one of the key universities of the United Kingdom.

The stories I have heard are of visitors getting a taxi all the way from Edinburgh Airport to St Andrews rather than frequent the bus "link" from Leuchars.
More fool them. The existing public transport options to St Andrews are more than adequate. If someone is so precious that they would prefer to spend £100 or more on a taxi rather than slumming it on a bus for 10 minutes then I'm not sure they are really people we should be spending public money on.
Well presumably you would run the St Andrews shuttle train service to connect with all the principal trains at Leuchars. By doing so the number of rail users using the bus would drop to nil.

I can't imagine many people in St Andrews are using the bus just to travel to Leuchars simply for the day out there.
There are generally 4 trains an hour from Leuchars (2 north, 2 south), which run irregularly and at inconsistent times from one hour to the next, so the buses do a much better job of meeting the trains than a half-hourly shuttle service would do!
 

John R

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More fool them. The existing public transport options to St Andrews are more than adequate. If someone is so precious that they would prefer to spend £100 or more on a taxi rather than slumming it on a bus for 10 minutes then I'm not sure they are really people we should be spending public money on.
Well it's not really 10 minutes bus from the airport is it. If you are a party of 4 wealthy Americans coming to the golf club, then I can easily see why a taxi to carry them with luggage and clubs might be more attractive than negotiating the several legs of public transport the 50 miles to St Andrews. Especially after landing on a red-eye flight.
 

stevieinselby

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Well it's not really 10 minutes bus from the airport is it. If you are a party of 4 wealthy Americans coming to the golf club, then I can easily see why a taxi to carry them with luggage and clubs might be more attractive than negotiating the several legs of public transport the 50 miles to St Andrews. Especially after landing on a red-eye flight.
Either they're happy to transfer to Edinburgh Gateway, and then it's only 10 minutes on the bus from Leuchars – or they aren't happy to transfer to Edinburgh Gateway, and so whether there's a train to St Andrews or not is irrelevant.
 

John R

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Either they're happy to transfer to Edinburgh Gateway, and then it's only 10 minutes on the bus from Leuchars – or they aren't happy to transfer to Edinburgh Gateway, and so whether there's a train to St Andrews or not is irrelevant.
I'm inclined to agree with that, although I can see that the thought of whether its practical to take a full set of clubs and a full size suitcase on a service bus might be the tipping point in the decision.
 

overthewater

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Buses can be great but are far too easy to change, cut the route or frequency/ hours of operation and to this day are for some reason seen as separate to the railway. For someone like me to be satisfied, the bus service needs to be guaranteed to be around for years, decades from now, joint publicity including on rail maps, make thru ticketing as easy as possible, branding of buses.

Yet that is not the case in St Andrews, pretty much since 1999, the routes around St Andrews have continued to be improved and it's been every 8-10mins between Dundee and St Andrews for many many years now. The chances of the routes being cuts it Nil. However the Road works have NOT helped in the past year but hopefully there now gone.

Last year there was slight reduction on the Sunday town service, to every half hour, yet that had to go back up to every 20mins to keep up with passenger demand. I've had the delight of the 99s a good number of times over the full route and on a few occasions, two buses were running together and they both had standing loads. If that Tay bridge park n Ride had been built they would have had to increase the freq to every 4mins during peaks..

I also note you mentioned Lothian buses earlier, maybe you should look at the West Lothian operations, it maybe publicly owned, but the network hasn't got any better, in same parts it's got alot worse.

#######

I know this isn't the thread but why the Tweedbank to Carlisle section a fantasy? I don't think Allow to Fife should ever been created, they would be better off having Fife - Forth bridge - Linlithgow - Glasgow.
 

aron2smith

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Be careful what you wish for. Were such a review conducted I fear it would spell the end for many horribly uneconomic branch lines and stations.
Why would it when even Ireland has some major plans to expand its rail network?

If anything the way our railways were divided up during privatisation hurt it more. Northern especially appears to have a lot of unprofitable lines but what do we expect when Transpennine Express was completely severed from it, the 2 together would do ok. Rail closures on even lighter used lines these days seems politically impossible. About time people gave up on the pursuit of a transport system fully paying its way, its value comes from much much more.
 

najaB

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I'm inclined to agree with that, although I can see that the thought of whether its practical to take a full set of clubs and a full size suitcase on a service bus might be the tipping point in the decision.
Those people are currently served by taking the train to Leuchars and a taxi to St. Andrews. I can't see the option of a train for the last leg making much difference to their decision making.
 

JonathanH

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As noted above, the buses are frequent enough that they don't even need to line up to the timetable, other than at the very start and end of the day. Otherwise it's basically at least every ten minutes from 0600 to 2000 and every twenty minutes until 0020.
Some people would still complain that they see the bus heading off from the bus stop just as the train arrives.
 

najaB

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Some people would still complain that they see the bus heading off from the bus stop just as the train arrives.
By the time they get their stuff, walk up the stairs, across the bridge, and back down the ramp on the other side the next bus will more than likely be pulling in. ;)
 

JonathanH

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By the time they get their stuff, walk up the stairs, across the bridge, and back down the ramp on the other side the next bus will more than likely be pulling in. ;)
Yes, exactly, and not everyone can get across to a bus in the same amount of time.
 

Falcon1200

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'Reopening' to Peterhead - Surely the wrong verb, 'building an entirely new railway to modern standards would be more appropriate? There is not an existing line just needing vegetation clearance to run trains! If the short distance from Leuchars to St Andrews cannot be justified Peterhead is even less likely.
 

najaB

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'Reopening' to Peterhead - Surely the wrong verb, 'building an entirely new railway to modern standards would be more appropriate? There is not an existing line just needing vegetation clearance to run trains! If the short distance from Leuchars to St Andrews cannot be justified Peterhead is even less likely.
Leuchars to St. Andrews was also not "an existing line needing vegetation clearance" but a completely new line built to modern standards. The difference being that, unlike St Andrews, Peterhead is a town of 20,000 which has very poor public transport connectivity to the closest city, not insignificant industry (largest UK fishing port), and significant levels of deprivation. Unlike the St. Andrews branch, it would also potentially serve other population centres such as Maude and Ellon.
 

waverley47

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I know this isn't the thread but why the Tweedbank to Carlisle section a fantasy?

If you're asking why people fantasise about reopening, it's because there was a line there once, and almost every closed line has an active campaign to reopen.

If you're asking why it's a fantasy, it's because there's a big lot of nothing right where the railway is supposed to go.
There are generally 4 trains an hour from Leuchars (2 north, 2 south), which run irregularly and at inconsistent times from one hour to the next, so the buses do a much better job of meeting the trains than a half-hourly shuttle service would do!

One of the drawbacks of running stopping and express services on a two track railway I'm afraid. From Edinburgh there's a train every half hour, at xx:00 and xx:30, and BEMUs will help with journey times and acceleration, but southbound there's not a whole great deal that can be done.
 

jeffinabox

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In answer to this question, it's interesting how they're different, and it might be helpful to give some insight into why they are different.

Levenmouth was a special case, for three reasons.

Firstly, the line was in railway ownership, the formation was intact, although in need of repairs, and there was an existing connection with the big railway. That's important because you don't have to negotiate with landowners, you don't need to do option sifting for an alignment, and you have a way of bringing materials in and out by train.

The cost of deciding which route to build, the costs of buying land, and taking the whole project through several levels of the legal process, is astronomical. You have to pay the salaries of every single person who is doing ground investigations or detailed design work, lawyers negotiating with landowners, and pay for the full legal process itself, for several years before you even put a spade in the ground.

Buying the land in St Andrews would be outrageous. The land owned by the golf courses and the university is some of the most expensive in Scotland, and although they would say that they are supportive, in reality, they'd be holding the line up with demands about where the line can go, and how much land they're willing to part with. This process itself would take at least a year.

In comparison, the Levenmouth line was open. It was unused, but it was still an open railway, legally speaking. Anything you do on the line is a permitted development, and all we needed was planning permission for the stations. By comparison, that was a walk in the park.


Secondly, the junction at the main line was there already. That's important because renewing the junction is a renewal, and the signalling interface with the main line already exists. It's much easier to build something 'offline' if it already has it's interface with the 'online' bit. All they had to do at Thornton was a renewal of the signalling and points, built the rest of the signalling on the branch, and plug it in on the end.

At Leuchars, by comparison, you'd be building an absolute minimum of three point ends, a new junction, and a new interface with the big railway. The reason that's a £60m one-off cost is that you're ripping out what's there already, and resignalling, putting something new in. A like for like replacement is easy, adding something onto the end of a branch line is middling, a full new junction, and all the resignalling that triggers, is very hard. What's to say that if you started messing around with the signalling at Leuchars, that wouldn't have to trigger a full resignalling; it might be covered by legacy rights, but that goes away as soon as you start putting new bits in.


Thirdly, the marginal cost of serving Levenmouth was very small. The Fife Circle timetable meant that the cost was an extra diagram and driver, because you can extend services that are already there. It was very obvious how you'd serve it, and you get a lot of value out of that.

St Andrews by comparison is a bit screwed. Either you serve it as a shuttle, which is paying for three or four extra drivers who basically sit doing a ten minute shuttle twice an hour, or you connect it in. As soon as you connect it in, then you start making journey times longer, or needing extra services, all of which costs a lot in ongoing operational expenditure.


The combination of these three makes it materially different, and not for the better. I've been trying to think of comparisons, and although there aren't any, I think the two closest are Devizes and Leigh. Both used to have lines, both served by a nearby 'parkway' esque station, both somewhat affluent, but both will forever be stuck without a station, because they're just too awkward to serve.
Would this fantastic explanation give weight to extending the Glasgow to Alloa line?

My in-laws live near the train line that runs a couple of miles east of Devizes. The nearest station at the moment is maybe Pewsey or Melksham. I know there are proposals to build a Devizes Parkway station which would make life much easier when visiting.
 

Falcon1200

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The difference being that, unlike St Andrews, Peterhead is a town of 20,000 which has very poor public transport connectivity to the closest city, not insignificant industry (largest UK fishing port), and significant levels of deprivation. Unlike the St. Andrews branch, it would also potentially serve other population centres such as Maude and Ellon.

Regardless of population density, as just over 5 miles of new railway to St Andrews cannot be justified, I cannot see how 38 miles from Dyce to Peterhead is ever going to be affordable - Are there any estimates, even if very basic, for the cost of the latter? We are talking billions, surely.
 

najaB

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Regardless of population density, as just over 5 miles of new railway to St Andrews cannot be justified, I cannot see how 38 miles from Dyce to Peterhead is ever going to be affordable - Are there any estimates, even if very basic, for the cost of the latter? We are talking billions, surely.
Last estimate I saw was around £450M.
 

takno

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@waverley47 estimated above that the St. Andrews link wouldn't get you much change out of £500M, so if I was going to spend it on either of the two it would be Peterhead every day of the week.
I'd guess most of us would spend it on Peterhead over St Andrews. It's just that I'd probably spend it on electrification, or something non-train like footpath infrastructure or electric buses in preference to either of them.
 

najaB

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The current best estimate for Peterhead and Fraserburgh is on the wrong side of £1.2bn
Thanks. The last one I saw was from around 2021 so doesn't take recent inflation into account. I think at the time Peterhead and Fraserbugh was costed at £650M.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I'd guess most of us would spend it on Peterhead over St Andrews. It's just that I'd probably spend it on electrification, or something non-train like footpath infrastructure or electric buses in preference to either of them.
Indeed. But the question I was answering was where the next best Scottish reopening would be.
 

Rail Ranger

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Tweedbank to Carlisle may well be a non-starter but surely there must be quite a good case for extending from Tweedbank to Hawick?
 
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