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Re-opening rail line to St Andrews rejected by Scottish Government

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takno

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I do feel St Andrews is a special case.

Although its population is not huge, it has significant tourist traffic, as well as one of the key universities of the United Kingdom.

The stories I have heard are of visitors getting a taxi all the way from Edinburgh Airport to St Andrews rather than frequent the bus "link" from Leuchars.
Another way of looking at it is that it has significant tourist traffic in spite of having no station, and the wealthy golf-heavy visitors can afford a taxi from Edinburgh airport (which probably isn't actually a terrible price if there's several of you in the taxi).

It's questionable whether the place would benefit from even more tourists, and it's definitely not an area like Levenmouth which was/is in desperate need of economic development.
 
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Kingston Dan

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None of the arguments I've read on this thread change my mind, nor is it justifiable for spending a very large amount of public money for very little gains. If the service was just a shuttle, what is the point when we already have bus running every 8-10mins? So what about a service from St Andrews to Dundee again the bus service is blows it out of the water so that just leaves us with Edinburgh to St Andrews.....
I've seen arguments on this forum saying that you can't reopen a rail line because an infrequent bus service shows there's no demand. There's clearly a lot of demand between St Andrews and Leuchars/Dundee/Edinburgh if there's that level of bus service.
 

takno

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I've seen arguments on this forum saying that you can't reopen a rail line because an infrequent bus service shows there's no demand. There's clearly a lot of demand between St Andrews and Leuchars/Dundee/Edinburgh if there's that level of bus service.
The trouble is that being every ten minutes drives its own demand. You can't expect to run an hourly train service and still pick up all the punters. Meanwhile it's clearly not suppressed   demand
 

Djgr

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The trouble is that being every ten minutes drives its own demand. You can't expect to run an hourly train service and still pick up all the punters. Meanwhile it's clearly not suppressed   demand
Well presumably you would run the St Andrews shuttle train service to connect with all the principal trains at Leuchars. By doing so the number of rail users using the bus would drop to nil.

I can't imagine many people in St Andrews are using the bus just to travel to Leuchars simply for the day out there.
 

Bald Rick

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It would make more sense to build a branch a couple miles north of Cupar and then cut across the empty fields to the town. Wouldn't need to worry about any big bridges or the golf course then.

You would still need a big bridge to get across the tidal flood plain of the River Eden, and then there’s the small matter of a rather large hill in the way, and then you have to get across the A91 to the only reasonable site for a station.

But to me buses are not a substitute for the railway, they are supposed to add to it. They are good for local and shorter regional journeys.

Leuchars to St Andrews is the very definition of a local / shorter regional journey.
 

The Planner

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It was the right decision, it would be a complete waste of money and some people seem to think we need to reopen any old rain lines to show Dr Beeching was wrong. There are many places around Scotland which needs to be higher priority when it comes to reopening old lines like Scottish borders to Carlisle etc This link isn't one of them and isn't comparable to the recent Leven reopening.
Borders to Carlisle is a basket case as well, not sure that is a good counter argument.
 

geoffk

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I don't think many golfers would be too happy with a railway line crossing through the middle of their golf course. :lol:
The Preston to Blackburn line runs through Pleasington Golf Club and a bridge was recently built to connect the two parts of the course. Perhaps there are others! St. Andrews is a bit more high profile though.
 

tbtc

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It's amazing how an eight minute frequency on the main bus service from Leuchars to St Andrews (where the 18-plate buses are shortly to be replaced by brand new electric ones) still gets criticised on here for somehow not connecting with the two trains an hour that pass through Leuchars...

There's a direct coach every two hours from Edinburgh Airport to St Andrews (as well as an hourly coach from Glasgow to St Andrews plus one fast one an hour from central Edinburgh, not including the two coaches an hour that run a slower route from Edinburgh to serve the communities of the East Neuk etc), the airport coaches even running through the night

That obviously won't satisfy all airport passengers (even with the 747 running every twenty minutes from the airport to Ferrytoll/ Halbeath where you can change to the two St Andrews coaches each hour), but then again Manchester Airport still gets a lot of taxis despite direct trains to a huge range of destinations

A train would certainly be more attractive to a railway enthusiast, but based on today's situation it would mean getting a tram from the Airport to Edinburgh Gateway and changing there for the hourly Dundee train (mainly two coach 1980s DMUs, based on today's RTT)... and change there for a train doing a Leuchars-St Andrews shuttle (and then get your semester's worth of luggage/ golf clubs etc from the station to where you'll be staying?)

But that's part of the problem with a line to St Andrews. Spending tens of millions of pounds and just getting a Leuchars - St Andrews shuttle seems a waste...

...but if you want something longer distance then there's no obvious existing service to extend there (unlike, say, Tweedbank which was an extension of the half hourly Waverley - Newcraighall service, Alloa could be served by the Glasgow services that previously terminated at Stirling)

There's probably no space at Waverley or over the Forth Bridge for additional Fife services. In the past you could have suggested extending the 'Fife Circle's stoppers that previously terminated at Markinch etc but now these kind of journeys serve the Levenmouth branch

You could divert the existing semi-fast Edinburgh - Dundee every hour to St Andrews but that would mean losing direct links from Edinburgh Gateway/ Kirkcaldy/ Markinch/ Ladybank to Dundee, unless your plan is to slow down the longer distance Aberdeen trains to additionally serve these places?

St Andrews gets particularly busy when there's big golf events on, but to serve that market properly you'd presumably need a double track line with a station there to be big enough to accommodate several long trains at once (rather than a couple of platforms built to take just a four/five coach unit)? How much additional money is that you'd have to spend for a small number of events each decade?

St Andrews doesn't need a rail link to 'put it on the map' (the excuse used for most reopenings), it's a thriving place

The only real argument for this being any kind of priority whatsoever is 'i really like trains and I'll uncritically support any old reopenings" (yes, I understand that this is a pro-rail forum, but even so, there's got to be some quality threshold?)
 

waverley47

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It's not happening because it would be an economic basket case.

Technically possible without too much fuss, but it's a case of why on earth would you. It's just one of those schemes that everything possible conspires to make it as difficult as possible to get a positive business case.

Reopening railway lines are very expensive, and this one would be a lot of capital to serve a relatively small number of people.


In order to get the best use out of the line, you'd really need to connect it into Edinburgh without changing, to give you access to the airport and points south. But that means you have to run trains down through Fife to serve the line. And suddenly it you're looking at an ongoing cost of 3/4 extra units and train crew to serve five miles of track and a grand total of let's say 220k journeys a year?

Or you could built a triangle at Leuchars and have all trains serving St Andrews reverse back out and continue to Dundee, or vice versa, but then you're looking at services between Edinburgh and Dundee taking an extra 30 minutes in each direction, and have to think about timetabling over a presumably single track section, or provide passing opportunities.

Or you could spend a couple of million making an improved interchange at Leuchars station, and pay Stagecoach to always have a bus ready to meet the trains.

So firstly, let us be very clear about what is being proposed here. What problem are we trying to solve?

This is a proposal that suggests that St. Andrew's could be better served by a railway line. It's existing transport provision is inadequate, and could be improved, with the provision of such a railway line.
Great, now let's examine the proposal in detail, with what is there now, what the potential demand might be, whether or not trains are the right answer to such a question. First, we go through facts as they are now.

Infrastructure
The railway line closed in the 60s, and there's virtually nothing left of the line, beyond the formation itself. The land that once made up the railway line is currently approximately 2km of golf course, 3.5km of open ground, including farm land, and 2km of built up area, most of which is obliterated or under buildings and roads. Three bridges are missing, including the 100m long viaduct at Guardbridge, and one in the town centre, which, if rebuilt today, would not be high enough for the full sized coaches, double decker buses, and lorries which serve the town. Reopening the old alignment would be impossible, and an entirely new alignment would be necessary, totalling approximately 6-8km.

Guardbridge would not be big enough to justify a station, so you're looking at a single station, presumably at the end of a single line section. Such a section would have a maximum speed of 40-50mph, simply due to geography and length.

As I said in my last message regarding this subject:

"In order to get the best use out of the line, you'd really need to connect it into Edinburgh without changing, to give you access to the airport and points south. But that means you have to run trains down through Fife to serve the line."

A shuttle will never wash its face. A shuttle would necessarily cost more than a bus, to wash its face. It would take, on a slow trackbed, about 10 minutes from end to end, or about 50% of the bus journey time. Such a service would probably amount to taking about two thirds of the bus passengers transferring at Leuchars, as well as about the same again in new custom to the railway, attracted by ease of through ticketing and the convenience of a train.

If you didn't build some kind of VLR shuttle, or a stub branch connecting at Leuchars station, then you'd have to build a lot more. At a very conservative estimate, land purchase, civils and signalling would cost £55m per single kilometre of this new route. Add a base extra cost of £80m for the station and junction with the existing railway, plus another £80m again if you wanted a triangular junction, and suddenly that's £600m for this line.

And then you have to serve the thing:

"And suddenly it you're looking at an ongoing cost of 3/4 extra units and train crew to serve five miles of track and a grand total of let's say 220k journeys a year? Or you could built a triangle at Leuchars and have all trains serving St Andrews reverse back out and continue to Dundee, or vice versa, but then you're looking at services between Edinburgh and Dundee taking an extra 30 minutes in each direction, and have to think about timetabling over a presumably single track section, or provide passing opportunities."

Any way you slice this, that's a material cost of at least two extra full-day unit diagrams, as well as either 25 minute longer journey times between Edinburgh and Dundee, two extra paths per hour into Edinburgh/Dundee, or both.


People
St. Andrew's is a reasonably wealthy town. Of the seventeen data zones in the town proper, all bar one are in the top half of income distributions of zones in Scotland, and all bar three are in the top half for geographic access of zones. that means that the town is reasonably well connected, and crucially, car ownership is high. The university, and golf, bring in a lot of annual visitors, the average wealth of such visitors will be high; almost three quarters of golfers visiting the Old Links are from overseas, and the university is self titled as "one of the most international in the UK."

Given the proportions of tourists visiting for golf, the university, or just for a visit, its also reasonable to make some assumptions about the type of person who visits, and whether they would or wouldn't be willing to use a train.

Its reasonable to assume that a majority of visitors to the town will be there for one, two or three days. Of the visitors there for one day, the majority will be driving, or on a tour bus, and will stop in the town for less than eight hours. Of those for two or three days, the majority will be bringing things with them, be it clothes for a short visit, or golfing equipment. Given the origin distribution of visitors to St. Andrew's, its reasonable to assume that most visitors are first coming from either Edinburgh, London, or an airport; if the latter, most likely Edinburgh, Heathrow, or Gatwick. There is a high degree of public transport accessibility to St. Andrew's anyway. There are, as @tbtc so wonderfully put it, about halfway through me writing this, a plethora of bus routes, express and local, to Dundee, Edinburgh, Fife, Dundee, and, crucially, Leuchars station. This proves both a demand and desire for services to these places.

Students would be willing to take the train; most would take either two, or four, journeys to and from home in a year, and will have friends and family visiting, or will go to visit friends and family themselves. That's about 10,000 students. The student population, and the population of the town itself, is what we would call our static capture; those people for whom reopening a railway is a net benefit, and for whom the only real question is the cost of a ticket once its built. Our static capture totals about 25,000 people living in or around the town, at least on a semi-permanent basis. Some of these will be seasonal, but we'll ignore that, because there are a decent amount of seasonal workers in the town to make up for that. In terms of journeys, if we assume that each person uses the train once per month on average, that's 300k journeys per year.

Of the visitors from the UK, and from overseas, who are visiting St. Andrew's as part of a longer trip, some could be persuaded to use the train. Day trippers from Edinburgh, or people doing a day out for a game of golf, could definitely be persuaded. That's our semi-static capture; the number of people who could be enticed to use a train, if it was comparable journey times with driving the full distance, and a decent cost. Basically, this is the category of retired day-trippers, student backpackers, and golfers going for a few days. These could be persuaded to take the train, but most will not. Let's call this category a nice round 500,000 people a year, which gives us lets say 150k single journeys a year.

Fluid flows are those for whom reopening the railway is a net negative. In this category, that number is very, very small, and we will discount it here.

There are some people you'll never capture. Wealthy visitors with heavy luggage will continue to be driven around. Visitors driving a long way to St. Andrew's from inside the UK or in Europe will continue to drive. Day-trippers on a tour bus will continue to take a tour bus, particularly those visiting on cruise ships docked in the Firth, or on week long excursions around Scotland.

Collectively, that's a population that could be captured that amounts to that of a small town, with a decent tourism trade. The population of St. Andrew's is, on average affluent, employed, has high mobility through existing access to cars and public transport, and is highly educated.

I roughly estimated the number of potential journeys from a St. Andrew's station at 220k per year. This feasibility study would have used three estimates; best case, worst case, and best guess scenarios. For this feasibility study to have come back with the number it did, I can say that 220k pax/year estimate was about half the estimate they used for their best guess. Lets say 450k per year instead.


Business Case


Serving a total of 450k journeys per year, for all that cost, seems a little bit mad.

You just don't tick any boxes spending all that money for St. Andrew's. Its a wealthy place, with a decent tourism industry, connections are easy onto trains at Leuchars, and a lot of people already do that.

Its not the same as Levenmouth, which was completely deprived, lacking economic integration and public transport access. The formation has gone completely, its not in railway ownership, and its in one of the most expensive corners of the county. Even the simple problem of where to put the station is contentious; the best spots would be under the golf course, under the university, or in land owned by one or the other. Its not the same as Tweedbank or Leven in that there's no service you could extend; if there was a 1tbh suburban service terminating at Leuchars, then absolutely, it would be easy.

Its a a line which perhaps shouldn't have closed, but now that it has, its just not worth it.
 
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najaB

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If you didn't build some kind of VLR shuttle, or a stub branch connecting at Leuchars station, then you'd have to build a lot more. At a very conservative estimate, land purchase, civils and signalling would cost £55m per single kilometre of this new route. Add a base extra cost of £800m for the station and junction with the existing railway, plus another £80m again if you wanted a triangular junction, and suddenly that's £600m for this line.
£600M would pay for a heck of a lot of taxi journeys, never mind subsidised bus tickets!
 

Dr Hoo

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This is a fascinating thread. Something that hasn’t been commented on so far is the amazing persistence of the leading campaigner, StARlink Convener, Jane Ann Liston.

It brought back happy memories of my time with BR ScotRail when I poked around numerous potential re-opening candidates including Alloa, Grangemouth, Leven and St Andrews in the early 1990s. This included a walking ‘survey’ with the good lady covering many miles and including every possible site, bridge and route.

St Andrews wasn’t a Beeching proposal by the way. It came from Barbara Castle’s ‘Network for Development [aka ‘some additional closures’]’.
 

DDB

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St Andrews wasn’t a Beeching proposal by the way. It came from Barbara Castle’s ‘Network for Development [aka ‘some additional closures’]’.
I was wondering about this. This sounds like a proposal sunk by massive cost because there isn't an easy route wheras the high frequency commercial bus services suggest there would be plenty of demand. So why was it closed in the first place was the demand not actually there in the past?
 

John R

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Well the student population has doubled there in just the last 30 years, which will also generate demand through employment at the university, which won’t all be met by people living in the town.
 

Dr Hoo

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I was wondering about this. This sounds like a proposal sunk by massive cost because there isn't an easy route wheras the high frequency commercial bus services suggest there would be plenty of demand. So why was it closed in the first place was the demand not actually there in the past?
The branch required a dedicated DMU and crew, resourced from Dundee, so it had a lot of unproductive time in diagrams. Demand was very seasonal when the University was much smaller. No freight.

The St Andrews Hotel was happy to put on a ‘limousine’ shuttle to Leuchars.
 

waverley47

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Well the student population has doubled there in just the last 30 years, which will also generate demand through employment at the university, which won’t all be met by people living in the town.

The problem with assertions like this is that they're very hard to measure.

Yes, the university is growing, and yes, the golf course is popular, but can you say by how much? How many extra students would you need to make it worth it? How many extra journeys would each student have to take to make the line worth it?

It's very very had to quantify things like this in a paragraph on here. The final submission for the Borders reopening came to six hundred odd pages; the appendix that outlined the maths we did to make a best guess of passenger numbers was sixty of those.
 

John R

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The problem with assertions like this is that they're very hard to measure.

Yes, the university is growing, and yes, the golf course is popular, but can you say by how much? How many extra students would you need to make it worth it? How many extra journeys would each student have to take to make the line worth it?

It's very very had to quantify things like this in a paragraph on here. The final submission for the Borders reopening came to six hundred odd pages; the appendix that outlined the maths we did to make a best guess of passenger numbers was sixty of those.
All I was doing was answering the question in the post above mine why demand now might be substantially more than when the line closed back in the 1960s. And the growth of the University (most unis have grown like topsy since the 1980s) would be one obvious reason.
 

waverley47

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All I was doing was answering the question in the post above mine why demand now might be substantially more than when the line closed back in the 1960s. And the growth of the University (most unis have grown like topsy since the 1980s) would be one obvious reason.

Oh I didn't mean to come off as trying to chastise, and I apologise. It was more meant in general with threads like this.

The study has decided it's not financially worth it. But we have people arguing that the study was wrong, or that maybe they should build it anyway, or don't understand how complex these decisions are, and the perennial "it shouldn't have been closed in the first place."

Short sighted, I really thought this was a given after Leven reopened! That line appeared to be well used when I rid it, no reason why St Andrews would be any different. No reason why any town above 10000 people couldn't at least get an hourly rail service to their nearest large town or city.

Something like this message is a perfect encapsulation of this.

These decisions are frustrating and demoralising for other campaigns, seeing what can seem like carelessness or apathy from government. I've been keeping track of the current iteration of proposals to reopen the Edinburgh Sub, and it can genuinely be quite saddening having to explain the hard, bare economics of something, telling someone with genuine passion that their idea is moot, and their project will never get off the ground. These decisions and studies are incredibly complex, and I try to give a reasonable summary whenever something like this happens, but it's still so difficult to quantify things like "social good" and "value for money."
 

John R

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Leuchars ought to be renamed St Andrew's Parkway and be done with it.
Preferably without the apostrophe…

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Oh I didn't mean to come off as trying to chastise, and I apologise. It was more meant in general with threads like this.

The study has decided it's not financially worth it. But we have people arguing that the study was wrong, or that maybe they should build it anyway, or don't understand how complex these decisions are, and the perennial "it shouldn't have been closed in the first place."



Something like this message is a perfect encapsulation of this.

These decisions are frustrating and demoralising for other campaigns, seeing what can seem like carelessness or apathy from government. I've been keeping track of the current iteration of proposals to reopen the Edinburgh Sub, and it can genuinely be quite saddening having to explain the hard, bare economics of something, telling someone with genuine passion that their idea is moot, and their project will never get off the ground. These decisions and studies are incredibly complex, and I try to give a reasonable summary whenever something like this happens, but it's still so difficult to quantify things like "social good" and "value for money."
Will the study be published? If the reasoning is set out, it might be less demoralising for those campaigning for reopenings which are unlikely to pass the financial and social tests needed to justify reopening.
 

waverley47

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Short sighted, I really thought this was a given after Leven reopened! That line appeared to be well used when I rid it, no reason why St Andrews would be any different. No reason why any town above 10000 people couldn't at least get an hourly rail service to their nearest large town or city.

In answer to this question, it's interesting how they're different, and it might be helpful to give some insight into why they are different.

Levenmouth was a special case, for three reasons.

Firstly, the line was in railway ownership, the formation was intact, although in need of repairs, and there was an existing connection with the big railway. That's important because you don't have to negotiate with landowners, you don't need to do option sifting for an alignment, and you have a way of bringing materials in and out by train.

The cost of deciding which route to build, the costs of buying land, and taking the whole project through several levels of the legal process, is astronomical. You have to pay the salaries of every single person who is doing ground investigations or detailed design work, lawyers negotiating with landowners, and pay for the full legal process itself, for several years before you even put a spade in the ground.

Buying the land in St Andrews would be outrageous. The land owned by the golf courses and the university is some of the most expensive in Scotland, and although they would say that they are supportive, in reality, they'd be holding the line up with demands about where the line can go, and how much land they're willing to part with. This process itself would take at least a year.

In comparison, the Levenmouth line was open. It was unused, but it was still an open railway, legally speaking. Anything you do on the line is a permitted development, and all we needed was planning permission for the stations. By comparison, that was a walk in the park.


Secondly, the junction at the main line was there already. That's important because renewing the junction is a renewal, and the signalling interface with the main line already exists. It's much easier to build something 'offline' if it already has it's interface with the 'online' bit. All they had to do at Thornton was a renewal of the signalling and points, built the rest of the signalling on the branch, and plug it in on the end.

At Leuchars, by comparison, you'd be building an absolute minimum of three point ends, a new junction, and a new interface with the big railway. The reason that's a £60m one-off cost is that you're ripping out what's there already, and resignalling, putting something new in. A like for like replacement is easy, adding something onto the end of a branch line is middling, a full new junction, and all the resignalling that triggers, is very hard. What's to say that if you started messing around with the signalling at Leuchars, that wouldn't have to trigger a full resignalling; it might be covered by legacy rights, but that goes away as soon as you start putting new bits in.


Thirdly, the marginal cost of serving Levenmouth was very small. The Fife Circle timetable meant that the cost was an extra diagram and driver, because you can extend services that are already there. It was very obvious how you'd serve it, and you get a lot of value out of that.

St Andrews by comparison is a bit screwed. Either you serve it as a shuttle, which is paying for three or four extra drivers who basically sit doing a ten minute shuttle twice an hour, or you connect it in. As soon as you connect it in, then you start making journey times longer, or needing extra services, all of which costs a lot in ongoing operational expenditure.


The combination of these three makes it materially different, and not for the better. I've been trying to think of comparisons, and although there aren't any, I think the two closest are Devizes and Leigh. Both used to have lines, both served by a nearby 'parkway' esque station, both somewhat affluent, but both will forever be stuck without a station, because they're just too awkward to serve.
 
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This is a fascinating thread. Something that hasn’t been commented on so far is the amazing persistence of the leading campaigner, StARlink Convener, Jane Ann Liston.
Out of curiosity I went to the StARlink site to get a handle on the arguments being deployed there, and it's a startling contrast! Compared with the detailed and rigorous analysis of the situation presented in this thread (even in summarised form), the rationale over there seems flimsy and superficial, based more on emotion and aspiration than economics ("the only Scottish university town without a station and one of only a handful of British ones not on the rail network (Keele, Cranfield, Buckingham and Lampeter)"), so however passionate the campaign's leading light may be, that's no substitute for a firm grasp on how such decisions are reached:

 

John R

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In answer to this question, it's interesting how they're different, and it might be helpful to give some insight into why they are different.

Levenmouth was a special case, for three reasons.

Firstly, the line was in railway ownership, the formation was intact, although in need of repairs, and there was an existing connection with the big railway. That's important because you don't have to negotiate with landowners, you don't need to do option sifting for an alignment, and you have a way of bringing materials in and out by train.

The cost of deciding which route to build, the costs of buying land, and taking the whole project through several levels of the legal process, is astronomical. You have to pay the salaries of every single person who is doing ground investigations or detailed design work, lawyers negotiating with landowners, and pay for the full legal process itself, for several years before you even put a spade in the ground.

Buying the land in St Andrews would be outrageous. The land owned by the golf courses and the university is some of the most expensive in Scotland, and although they would say that they are supportive, in reality, they'd be holding the line up with demands about where the line can go, and how much land they're willing to part with. This process itself would take at least a year.

In comparison, the Levenmouth line was open. It was unused, but it was still an open railway, legally speaking. Anything you do on the line is a permitted development, and all we needed was planning permission for the stations. By comparison, that was a walk in the park.


Secondly, the junction at the main line was there already. That's important because renewing the junction is a renewal, and the signalling interface with the main line already exists. It's much easier to build something 'offline' if it already has it's interface with the 'online' bit. All they had to do at Thornton was a renewal of the signalling and points, built the rest of the signalling on the branch, and plug it in on the end.

At Leuchars, by comparison, you'd be building an absolute minimum of three point ends, a new junction, and a new interface with the big railway. The reason that's a £60m one-off cost is that you're ripping out what's there already, and resignalling, putting something new in. A like for like replacement is easy, adding something onto the end of a branch line is middling, a full new junction, and all the resignalling that triggers, is very hard. What's to say that if you started messing around with the signalling at Leuchars, that wouldn't have to trigger a full resignalling; it might be covered by legacy rights, but that goes away as soon as you start putting new bits in.


Thirdly, the marginal cost of serving Levenmouth was very small. The Fife Circle timetable meant that the cost was an extra diagram and driver, because you can extend services that are already there. It was very obvious how you'd serve it, and you get a lot of value out of that.

St Andrews by comparison is a bit screwed. Either you serve it as a shuttle, which is paying for three or four extra drivers who basically sit doing a ten minute shuttle twice an hour, or you connect it in. As soon as you connect it in, then you start making journey times longer, or needing extra services, all of which costs a lot in ongoing operational expenditure.


The combination of these three makes it materially different, and not for the better. I've been trying to think of comparisons, and although there aren't any, I think the two closest are Devizes and Leigh. Both used to have lines, both served by a nearby 'parkway' esque station, both somewhat affluent, but both will forever be stuck without a station, because they're just too awkward to serve.
That is indeed very helpful, and goes a long way to explaining why the decision was what it was. Thank you for the insight.
 

aron2smith

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In answer to this question, it's interesting how they're different, and it might be helpful to give some insight into why they are different.

Levenmouth was a special case, for three reasons.

Thirdly, the marginal cost of serving Levenmouth was very small. The Fife Circle timetable meant that the cost was an extra diagram and driver, because you can extend services that are already there. It was very obvious how you'd serve it, and you get a lot of value out of that.

St Andrews by comparison is a bit screwed. Either you serve it as a shuttle, which is paying for three or four extra drivers who basically sit doing a ten minute shuttle twice an hour, or you connect it in. As soon as you connect it in, then you start making journey times longer, or needing extra services, all of which costs a lot in ongoing operational expenditure.


The combination of these three makes it materially different, and not for the better. I've been trying to think of comparisons, and although there aren't any, I think the two closest are Devizes and Leigh. Both used to have lines, both served by a nearby 'parkway' esque station, both somewhat affluent, but both will forever be stuck without a station, because they're just too awkward to serve.
Thanks for the comprehensive answer, I enjoyed reading it. Maybe not with St Andrews in there, but don't you think the country needs some kind of strategic rail review? Maybe do England, Scotland and Wales separately though. So we can see where objectively places need railways, where bottlenecks are holding the network back, where electrification and investment in existing infrastructure would be super beneficial. I have a blanket every town with 10000 or more should have a rail connection, just for future proofing the infrastructure more than anything, I get some places are awkward to reconnect to the railway though and maybe buses for some towns are the better solution, but as someone who lives a few miles into a county that in just a few years at the height of austerity cut over half of its bus routes and journeys, I think I'm right to be concerned by that. Trains are quite rightly much harder to get rid of.

Buses can be great but are far too easy to change, cut the route or frequency/ hours of operation and to this day are for some reason seen as separate to the railway. For someone like me to be satisfied, the bus service needs to be guaranteed to be around for years, decades from now, joint publicity including on rail maps, make thru ticketing as easy as possible, branding of buses. I'm not sure how the GWR rail link buses are funded but I think there should be the standard if a 'bus branch line' could be developed in more places. Wales seems to be showing real potential on this too. I've had bus drivers deny my valid Plus Bus ticket a number of times, that experience needs to be eliminated. But while buses remain private, true integration seems limited at best. Having recently been to Ireland where you can seamlessly use leap cards on trains, trams, buses and even coaches and the same in Northern Ireland but with a iLink card, seems so much further ahead than anything I've seen in Scotland, England or Wales. It needs to be simpler on our side of the sea, integration of bus and train is the key here.
 
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Maybe not with St Andrews in there, but don't you think the country needs some kind of strategic rail review? Maybe do England, Scotland and Wales separately though. So we can see where objectively places need railways, where bottlenecks are holding the network back, where electrification and investment in existing infrastructure would be super beneficial.
Transport Scotland does conduct strategic reviews, with plans oriented around five year control periods.

Trains are quite rightly much harder to get rid of.
The obvious flip side applies too, i.e. that trains are much harder to (re)introduce!
 

EMU303

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Assuming the fantasy of Tweedbank to Carlisle gets formally binned in due course, is there anything that could be seriously looked at for reopening in Scotland?
Or will the focus over the next several years be on discontinuous electrification and new EMU/BEMUs and HST train replacement? Given SR has an ageing fleet and government funding is likely to be tight, it’s surely doubtful there will be room for anything else?
 

najaB

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Assuming the fantasy of Tweedbank to Carlisle gets formally binned in due course, is there anything that could be seriously looked at for reopening in Scotland?
The next logical reopening is Peterhead.
 

InOban

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I would love to see Cost benefit analysis of continuing to run trains between Girvan and Stranraer...
 
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