Major disruption at Normanton tomorrow, yet nothing on NRE !

[yorksrob]

Checking my journey tomorrow, there appeared to be rail replacement buses between Normanton and Wakefield Kirkgate for most of the morning, yet upon checking for engineering works, there appears to be nothing about planned disruption on this line. Does anyone know what's going on ?

 

[Class 466]

Checking my journey tomorrow, there appeared to be rail replacement buses between Normanton and Wakefield Kirkgate for most of the morning, yet upon checking for engineering works, there appears to be nothing about planned disruption on this line. Does anyone know what's going on ?

TPE are diverting everything via Castleford - this also means the York to Manchester via Castleford services are strengthened to 6 coaches, which cannot call at Normanton, hence the replacement bus. “Major Disruption” it is not. Rather planned engineering works and it has happened before.

 

[30907]

TPE are diverting everything via Castleford - this also means the York to Manchester via Castleford services are strengthened to 6 coaches, which cannot call at Normanton, hence the replacement bus. “Major Disruption” it is not. Rather planned engineering works and it has happened before.

However, it isn't mentioned on the NRE page for the major works concerned.

I presume the 185s don't do local door?

 

[Class 466]

However, it isn't mentioned on the NRE page for the major works concerned.

I presume the 185s don't do local door?

Haven’t the foggiest - so I’ll pass onto someone with more knowledge, I just remember seeing this being discussed on here before.

 

[yorksrob]

TPE are diverting everything via Castleford - this also means the York to Manchester via Castleford services are strengthened to 6 coaches, which cannot call at Normanton, hence the replacement bus. “Major Disruption” it is not. Rather planned engineering works and it has happened before.

But there don't seem to be any trains between the two at this time (including the Sheffield's) so this does seem to be fairly major for Normanton users.

However, it isn't mentioned on the NRE page for the major works concerned.

I presume the 185s don't do local door?

Quite, NRE disruption notices usually include odd early and late trains missing, so a whole chunk of the day should feature.

If 185's don't have selective door opening, that's ludicrous.

 

[Class 466]

But there don't seem to be any trains between the two at this time (including the Sheffield's) so this does seem to be fairly major for Normanton users.

I checked on RTT and the Sheffields look to be running as booked?

 

[yorksrob]

I checked on RTT and the Sheffields look to be running as booked?

Cheers.

It didn't show any on my journey when I checked. Thinking about it, it may have substituted the RRB instead.

 

[Charlie978]

Quite, NRE disruption notices usually include odd early and late trains missing, so a whole chunk of the day should feature.

If 185's don't have selective door opening, that's ludicrous

I believe they have a form of SDO with beacons under the trains at platforms. It could be that at Normanton there isn’t the beacons in place.

 

[yorksrob]

I believe they have a form of SDO with beacons under the trains at platforms. It could be that at Normanton there isn’t the beacons in place.

Cheers. I'd assumed it was just a panel of buttons on the train !

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Oct 2025 ==

Thanks to everyone - I'm happy now that I know what's going on.

 

[johntea]

What is the cost/effort required to install such beacons at Normanton?

It feels odd they don’t perhaps look at resolving it rather than the continued effort of a rail replacement bus shuttling between Castleford and Wakefield Kirkgate

Every other station on the route seems to have them in place as there are several other short platforms (even the newly knocked up one at Castleford is only good for around 3 and a half carriages opening!)

 

[yorksrob]

What is the cost/effort required to install such beacons at Normanton?

It feels odd they don’t perhaps look at resolving it rather than the continued effort of a rail replacement bus shuttling between Castleford and Wakefield Kirkgate

Every other station on the route seems to have them in place as there are several other short platforms (even the newly knocked up one at Castleford is only good for around 3 and a half carriages opening!)

They probably ought to, now that Normanton is undeniably 185 territory.

 

[zackhally]

However, it isn't mentioned on the NRE page for the major works concerned.

I presume the 185s don't do local door?

They probably ought to, now that Normanton is undeniably 185 territory.

I believe they have a form of SDO with beacons under the trains at platforms. It could be that at Normanton there isn’t the beacons in place.

I realise I’m replying to a thread from months ago. However I trotted along this while googling something else.

I have your answer!

185s do have C-ASDO. Coach-based automatic selective door-opening.

This is beacon based, if a coach passes over a beacon (at the start of the platform), the carriage is “enabled” and will open at that platform when the conductor gives door release. Every station TP call at MUST have these, otherwise door release will not allow any carriage to open.

Normanton does have these beacons, however they do not allow for carriages 4-6 to open. TPE are not allowed (not sure if this is internal, or Network Rail’s calling) to call at stations with a non-walkthroughable coupled train, where no doors in a unit will open (the whole rear unit in Normanton’s case) this means 6 car 185s are not permitted to call at Normanton in either direction.

Previously Wakefield Kirkgate platform 1 was included, but has since been “allowed” to have a 4th coach open. TP were originally booked to call at Sherburn in the “new” York stoppers, however this isn’t fitted with C-ASDO beacons and TP weren’t allowed to call.

Hope this helps!

 

[yorksrob]

I realise I’m replying to a thread from months ago. However I trotted along this while googling something else.

I have your answer!

185s do have C-ASDO. Coach-based automatic selective door-opening.

This is beacon based, if a coach passes over a beacon (at the start of the platform), the carriage is “enabled” and will open at that platform when the conductor gives door release. Every station TP call at MUST have these, otherwise door release will not allow any carriage to open.

Normanton does have these beacons, however they do not allow for carriages 4-6 to open. TPE are not allowed (not sure if this is internal, or Network Rail’s calling) to call at stations with a non-walkthroughable coupled train, where no doors in a unit will open (the whole rear unit in Normanton’s case) this means 6 car 185s are not permitted to call at Normanton in either direction.

Previously Wakefield Kirkgate platform 1 was included, but has since been “allowed” to have a 4th coach open. TP were originally booked to call at Sherburn in the “new” York stoppers, however this isn’t fitted with C-ASDO beacons and TP weren’t allowed to call.

Hope this helps!

It does.

I must admit, given we've had SDO for donkeys years, it seems a bit like a technical solution looking for a problem, but there we are.

 

[3RDGEN]

It does.

I must admit, given we've had SDO for donkeys years, it seems a bit like a technical solution looking for a problem, but there we are.

On a six car 185 the guard will be in the rear unit so would the leading cab of the rear unit of a six car set be on the platform, in both directions, if not the guard can't carryout the door release/close procedures which would explain why they don't stop using SDO.

 

[BurtonM]

TPE are not allowed (not sure if this is internal, or Network Rail’s calling) to call at stations with a non-walkthroughable coupled train, where no doors in a unit will open (the whole rear unit in Normanton’s case) this means 6 car 185s are not permitted to call at Normanton in either direction.

Is this why sometimes on a TPE service, 2x185 will pull up and an entire unit will be locked out? I've had this happen at Manchester Victoria a few times, and it tends to annoy passengers.

 

[notspy]

Is this why sometimes on a TPE service, 2x185 will pull up and an entire unit will be locked out? I've had this happen at Manchester Victoria a few times, and it tends to annoy passengers.

As far as I am aware, there's no planned working of double units with the rear set locked OOU outside of the occasional very late/overnight train, so what you've seen would likely have been locked out due to an issue with the rear unit (fault or someone's been sick etc.).

 

[driverd]

However, it isn't mentioned on the NRE page for the major works concerned.

I presume the 185s don't do local door?

185s have various methods of releasing doors at this station, but thanks to company self imposed safety policies/restrictions.

Hence this insane situation that repeats every time a 6 car produces.

Someone really needs to get onto their local MP as its such a sub-optimal solution - it costs the tax payer money and is entirely self inflicted by policy, rather than practicality.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Feb 2026 ==

On a six car 185 the guard will be in the rear unit so would the leading cab of the rear unit of a six car set be on the platform, in both directions, if not the guard can't carryout the door release/close procedures which would explain why they don't stop using SDO.

The front cab of the rear unit (and, indeed, about 1/2 of coach 4) would be on the platform.

 

[dodecahedron67]

185s have various methods of releasing doors at this station, but thanks to company self imposed safety policies/restrictions, can no longer do what they have previously done for years.

Don't even get me started, things that were carried out with no issues and completely safely just arbitrarily banned "because"...

 

[zackhally]

185s have various methods of releasing doors at this station, but thanks to company self imposed safety policies/restrictions.

Hence this insane situation that repeats every time a 6 car produces.

Someone really needs to get onto their local MP as its such a sub-optimal solution - it costs the tax payer money and is entirely self inflicted by policy, rather than practicality.

It’s the same at a lot of TOCs and it’s perfectly understandable. If you have a non-walkthroughable unit and there’s a portion that will not open, you greatly increase the risk of overcarrying passengers, and also increase the risk of a door egress being pulled and a passenger(s) self evacuating.

The soloution would be for Network Rail/Northern to extend the Normanton platforms, OR in times like the OP has mentioned, there should be a 3 car shuttle from WKK<>CFD, that supplements the 6 car service and meets with it at both ends.

In my experience you can make 200 announcements, physically walk up to every single passenger and tell them the situation, and you will still have one “the doors didn’t open”. Happens frequently on the Manchester to Liverpool via Warrington trips, despite only the rear carriage being off the platform!

The Network Rail imposed “stop position” for services at Normanton means the rear unit will hang off the platform, so there is no method of opening the doors here safely.

 

[zackhally]

As far as I am aware, there's no planned working of double units with the rear set locked OOU outside of the occasional very late/overnight train, so what you've seen would likely have been locked out due to an issue with the rear unit (fault or someone's been sick etc.).

Spot on. Very rare to have a diagram that states “rear locked OOU” nowadays. Usually some sort of bio-hazard, or a fault.