Nightt buses with different numbers but the same route

[Simon75]

Are there many examples of routes that are the same routes at night, but different prefix (ie N prefix) to the day service ?

 

[Flange Squeal]

The N1 in Guildford (Stagecoach South) now meets this criteria, with night buses now only running the same route as the daytime 1. The night services only run during University term time though, so the number does help separate these journeys I suppose.

 

[YorkRailFan]

The UN1 follows the same route as the U1 between the University of York and the City Centre, the only difference being the UN1 doesn't serve the Sports Village on Campus or York Station.

 

[CN12 AWU]

N1 in Merseyside used to follow the 1 Chester to Liverpool in its full route when it started

I believe now the only section it shares with the daytime route is between Birkenhead and Liverpool

 

[Bumpkin]

Morebus N1 follows the same route as the m1 between Poole and Bournemouth Hospital

 

[jumble]

Are there many examples of routes that are the same routes at night, but different prefix (ie N prefix) to the day service ?

The TFL 140 becomes the N140 and runs the same route but is extended from Hayes and Harrington to Heathrow

 

[CN12 AWU]

Not sure if still exists but there used to be a N1 between Lancaster and Lancaster Univercity which followed the daytime 1 route

 

[SoloSR334022]

Lothian Country has the N18 which operates the same route as the daytime service at X18 but is curtailed at Bathgate over continuing to Whitburn.

 

[318266]

The First Glasgow N267 follows the entire eastbound route of the 267, but extends along the 226/X1 to Hillhouse.
The First Glasgow N18 nearly follows the entire southbound route of the 18, but goes via the 18A route to serve Westwood instead of Westwood South.
The Lothian N16 follows exactly the 16, however half the journeys join on/off the N11.
The Lothian N30 nearly follows the 30, but serves a greater area of Wester Hailes at its western end and extends to Musselburgh on its eastern.
The Lothian N35 nearly follows the 35, but skips the Heriot-Watt Research Park.
The Lothian N37 nearly follows the 37, but skips Straiton Mains, and serves a loop of Silverknowes on its western end.
The Lothian N107 follows the entire 107 from Musselburgh to Dunbar, but also goes to Edinburgh.
The Lothian N124 follows the entire 124, but goes via London Road eastbound to serve more of the nightlife, and loops around North Berwick rather than turning at Tesco on its eastern end.

 

[Hophead]

Brighton & Hove: 7/N7 & 12/N12 - routes are identical, the only difference is that the night routes don't accept the City Saver ticket.

By the way @Simon75 - just the one "t" in night!

 

[stadler]

Brighton & Hove: 7/N7 & 12/N12 - routes are identical, the only difference is that the night routes don't accept the City Saver ticket.

By the way @Simon75 - just the one "t" in night!

Also the N25 is over 90% the same except for a longer routing around the university campuses.

You also have the N1 N5 N14 N700 which mostly follow around 80% of the day routes but just take different routes at the outer ends.

But yes as you so only the N7 and N12 are 100% the same as the day routes.

Up until covid there was also a strangely numbered N8 which followed over 90% of the same route as the daytime 17 bus. Why not just number it N17 instead. There was no daytime 8 so it always seemed an odd choice.

 

[higthomas]

Most of the night buses in Oxford follow the same routes as their daytime counterparts. I think the N is mainly there to indicate that special fares apply.

 

[700007]

Also the N25 is over 90% the same except for a longer routing around the university campuses.

You also have the N1 N5 N14 N700 which mostly follow around 80% of the day routes but just take different routes at the outer ends.

But yes as you so only the N7 and N12 are 100% the same as the day routes.

Up until covid there was also a strangely numbered N8 which followed over 90% of the same route as the daytime 17 bus. Why not just number it N17 instead. There was no daytime 8 so it always seemed an odd choice.

Rather interestingly the N1 only covers the western half of route 1 (and much of the the 6). The route down to Brighton Marina (as per the 1X) or the Arundel Road LiDL (as per the regular 1) is covered by the N7 overnight hence they don't run the N1 eastbound beyond Brighton Station. This does mean Whitehawk is left without a night bus. You mention pre-Covid, I remember there being an N21 which did cover the Whitehawk area from the City Centre which interestingly was usually allocated a Mercedes Sprinter van! Not that it ever came back after Covid, the N21 that is.

With the N12/N14 I wonder if there is any merit in merging the two to just become one route with consistently hourly departures as a Brighton-Peacehaven loop-Seaford-Eastbourne night service? Would probably use the same amount of resources maybe even less, and provide a more consistent service along that part of the coast. Obviously the loop may come at a time penalty for 'through' passengers but I can't see it losing major footfall over that.

I remember this weird N8 service, I never quite fully understood it. Much of the areas it went to are very rural or lowly populated places which I can't imagine drum up big passenger numbers (probably why it never returned after Covid). The single fares on it whilst I don't remember the exact price, I remember were eye wateringly high. I am sure they were not far off the £10 mark? I suppose from a commercial POV it was needed given the footfall wasn't that high. And what made this N8 service even weirder was it wasn't operated by Stagecoach but a small independent firm who I can't remember for the life of me, now. They usually used a Citaro I think. On a similar note, there also used to be an N29 (one way, one sole journey) that ran from Brighton TO Uckfield but that didn't survive Covid either.

 

[Galactic142]

Not sure if still exists but there used to be a N1 between Lancaster and Lancaster Univercity which followed the daytime 1 route

Yes, the N1 still exists, but it now goes via Bowerham Rd, whereas the 1 goes down the A6.

There must be quite a few in London - I remember the N13 used to follow the day route of the 82 for most of the way... until the 82 was essentially re-numbered as the 13 and it went to 24-hour running.

 

[Jellyfish261]

Southern Vectis' N1, N3, N5 and N9 I think all run to the same route as the day services

 

[stadler]

Rather interestingly the N1 only covers the western half of route 1 (and much of the the 6). The route down to Brighton Marina (as per the 1X) or the Arundel Road LiDL (as per the regular 1) is covered by the N7 overnight hence they don't run the N1 eastbound beyond Brighton Station. This does mean Whitehawk is left without a night bus. You mention pre-Covid, I remember there being an N21 which did cover the Whitehawk area from the City Centre which interestingly was usually allocated a Mercedes Sprinter van! Not that it ever came back after Covid, the N21 that is.

With the N12/N14 I wonder if there is any merit in merging the two to just become one route with consistently hourly departures as a Brighton-Peacehaven loop-Seaford-Eastbourne night service? Would probably use the same amount of resources maybe even less, and provide a more consistent service along that part of the coast. Obviously the loop may come at a time penalty for 'through' passengers but I can't see it losing major footfall over that.

I remember this weird N8 service, I never quite fully understood it. Much of the areas it went to are very rural or lowly populated places which I can't imagine drum up big passenger numbers (probably why it never returned after Covid). The single fares on it whilst I don't remember the exact price, I remember were eye wateringly high. I am sure they were not far off the £10 mark? I suppose from a commercial POV it was needed given the footfall wasn't that high. And what made this N8 service even weirder was it wasn't operated by Stagecoach but a small independent firm who I can't remember for the life of me, now. They usually used a Citaro I think. On a similar note, there also used to be an N29 (one way, one sole journey) that ran from Brighton TO Uckfield but that didn't survive Covid either.

Yes i think combining the N12 and N14 as one coastal night bus from Brighton to Eastbourne on an hourly or half hourly route in each direction via the Peacehaven loop and Newhaven loop and Seaford loop would probably work much better. Also running it on Monday as well would be good especially considering that other buses like N700 to Worthing now have the same timetable on seven nights a week.

That old N8 was extortionate. They initially charged £10.00 flat fare single with no returns. Then a couple months before it was withdrawn for covid they put it up to £12.00 flat fare single with no returns. Even if you just wanted a local five minute journey then you still had to pay that. Unlike on B&H and MB they would not even take ENCTS passes within the time limits. The southbound journey was quite early departing at 21:00 and arriving at 22:00 which made it seem even more strange. It must hold the record for the earliest night bus. I took the N8 twice and was the only passenger on both journeys so i am not surprised that it never returned after covid.

Sussex Coaches operated it. As you say a Mercedes Benz Citaro was the regular vehicle. They also ran the 17 on Sunday from Brighton to Horsham instead of Stagecoach so they did actually run a daytime service too until covid. The fact that they already ran the 17 on Sunday makes it even strange that they chose N8 rather than the more logical N17 number.

It was a weird operation. Very modern bus but yet they used accident Wayfarer Saver ticket machines from the late 1980s and were cash only. They still run the half hourly Horsham town bus route 68 and they only switched from Wayfarer Saver to Ticketer and starting accepting contactless in early 2025 at the beginning of this year.

As well as the N29 i remember Brighton also used to have the night bus service to Burgess Hill and Haywards Heath (initially N69 and then changed to N40 to match the daytime route) and to Steyning and Worthing (two services both numbered as N2 but going different ways after the Shoreham roundabout) but those went a few years before covid. Brighton has had a massive increase in night bus services within the city but yet most of the long distance ones are gone.

 

[Roger1973]

There must be quite a few in London - I remember the N13 used to follow the day route of the 82 for most of the way... until the 82 was essentially re-numbered as the 13 and it went to 24-hour running.

The theory in London is that a '24 hour route' does the same route / termini night and day route, so will just show the same route number through the night without an N, e.g. the 47 which is now Shoreditch - Catford Garage both night and day (although as far as the TFL contract and systems are concerned, some journeys will be N47, just that this isn't visible to the public except in the PDF bus schedules that TFL put on the web.)

And if the route does something different to the daytime route - either diverting from the daytime line of route, or extending beyond one or both daytime terminus points, then it will show an N, e.g. the N47 before 2015 or current N 199 which extend/ed beyond both daytime termini to run Trafalgar Square - St Mary Cray.

TFL being TFL, there are probably one or two exceptions to both rules...

There was a phase when night journeys, even where the route was identical to the day route, would show N... - this was phased out with the '24 hour route' concept being pushed in the early to mid 00's. I have an idea that at one time, there were some fares / ticket acceptance differentials for N routes, but not now sure when this was.

(The other complication of the current system is on Christmas Eve when some of the '24 hour routes' finish earlier than the 'day routes' because of when the 'night journeys' part of the contract starts, or vice versa on the morning of Boxing Day.)

 

[cactustwirly]

In Reading the 26 doesn't have a prefix, but the night bus takes a different route into town - via Castle Street and terminating at St Mary's Butts
Daytimes and evenings it runs via Oxford Road/Cheap side to the station

 

[Roger1973]

In Reading the 26 doesn't have a prefix, but the night bus takes a different route into town - via Castle Street and terminating at St Mary's Butts
Daytimes and evenings it runs via Oxford Road/Cheap side to the station

Yes - it inter-works with the 5 and / or 6, so the bus arriving from Calcot as a 26 can start a route 5 journey at St Mary's Butts.

Similarly, the 'night' journeys on routes 5 and 6 don't quite match the daytime routes - a bus that goes from Reading to Northumberland Avenue as a 5 continues along Whitley Wood Road (not served by 5 or 6 in the daytime) and returns to Reading as a 6 and vice versa, and part of the daytime 6 loop terminus is not served at night. (basically, this means that the three routes can be worked through the night by two buses.)

 

[cactustwirly]

Yes - it inter-works with the 5 and / or 6, so the bus arriving from Calcot as a 26 can start a route 5 journey at St Mary's Butts.

Similarly, the 'night' journeys on routes 5 and 6 don't quite match the daytime routes - a bus that goes from Reading to Northumberland Avenue as a 5 continues along Whitley Wood Road (not served by 5 or 6 in the daytime) and returns to Reading as a 6 and vice versa, and part of the daytime 6 loop terminus is not served at night. (basically, this means that the three routes can be worked through the night by two buses.)

This also means that they're always a spare grey instead the usual coloured bus, the last of which is the 2315 from town

 

[700007]

(The other complication of the current system is on Christmas Eve when some of the '24 hour routes' finish earlier than the 'day routes' because of when the 'night journeys' part of the contract starts, or vice versa on the morning of Boxing Day.)

A favourite Christmas Eve quirk in TfL land is that the 140 for one night a year returns to Heathrow Airport. The route previously used to run through to Heathrow 24/7 but was cut back in December 2019 to make way for the associated Elizabeth line changes with new routes 278 and X140 (now the Superloop 9) taking it's place to Heathrow, from south of Hayes & Harlington where the 140 has been chopped back to. The night service remained the same and was subsequently renumbered the N140.

However, the new arrangement had it that the N140s timetable 'interworked' with the X140/SL9 as opposed to the day 140. So the first N140 runs after the last X140/SL9 finishes and vice versa. Because the SL9 finishes very early for a TfL route (around 11pm from Harrow) even on Christmas Eve, and they do not run night buses on Christmas Eve into Christmas Day, the last few 140s of the day are extended to Heathrow Airport to compensate for the missing N140 and to provide a late enough service out of Heathrow Airport until just before 1am-ish on Christmas Day itself.