Liverpool St and Moorgate - Elizabeth Line

[80073]

Apologies if this has already been asked before, but what are the rules about using Liverpool Street tickets at Moorgate?

Coming from Chelmsford, can a ticket valid to LST be used to get through the Elizabeth Line exit at Moorgate, which is sign posted from the LST EL platform? Similarly, in reverse can a LST ticket be used to enter at Moorgate for use on the EL towards CHM? Many thanks.

 

[redreni]

If the ticket is issued to London Terminals then I would say unambiguously yes, because Moorgate is a London Terminal and there is an official walking fixed link between it and Liverpool Street, effectively making any route valid to Liverpool Street valid to Moorgate using the fixed link.

If the ticket is an Advance and issued specifically to Liverpool Street then I'm not sure. You'd hope they wouldn't quibble and would appreciate it's all one station as far as Elizabeth Line passengers are concerned. But I can't off the top of my head think of a good counterargument if they said it wasn't valid to exit at Moorgate.

 

[Watershed]

If the ticket is issued to London Terminals then I would say unambiguously yes, because Moorgate is a London Terminal and there is an official walking fixed link between it and Liverpool Street, effectively making any route valid to Liverpool Street valid to Moorgate using the fixed link.

If the ticket is an Advance and issued specifically to Liverpool Street then I'm not sure. You'd hope they wouldn't quibble and would appreciate it's all one station as far as Elizabeth Line passengers are concerned. But I can't off the top of my head think of a good counterargument if they said it wasn't valid to exit at Moorgate.

I think the counterargument would be quite straightforward: you got off the train at the stop described as Liverpool Street (both on the train and externally), and there is nothing in the NRCoT which permits you to be denied entry or exit from a particular entrance to a station. It's immaterial how the entrance is labelled; you have still travelled within the validity of your ticket.

The other point would be that a Chelmsford to London Terminals ticket is arguably valid to Moorgate anyway (changing at Stratford and Highbury & Islington).

 

[redreni]

I think the counterargument would be quite straightforward: you got off the train at the stop described as Liverpool Street (both on the train and externally), and there is nothing in the NRCoT which permits you to be denied entry or exit from a particular entrance to a station. It's immaterial how the entrance is labelled; you have still travelled within the validity of your ticket.

The stop is described as Liverpool Street but the signs to the exit all say:

"Exit: Liverpool St -->
<-- Exit: Moorgate"

There is nothing to suggest a different or extra ticket might be required depending which exit is used, though.

 

[Watershed]

The stop is described as Liverpool Street but the signs to the exit all say:

"Exit: Liverpool St -->
<-- Exit: Moorgate"

There is nothing to suggest a different or extra ticket might be required depending which exit is used, though.

I think that should be seen simply as a geographic indication of where you will be 'deposited' when you exit, in the same way that Bond Street has signs pointing towards the Davies Street and Hanover Square exits at either end.

I am doubtful that any requirement could be imposed, after buying a ticket, to only use a specific exit.

 

[MikeWh]

I'm sure that it will be fine. All TfL's rules regarding which CPAY fares are used have been adjusted to count Liverpool Street and Moorgate as one station.

 

[redreni]

I think that should be seen simply as a geographic indication of where you will be 'deposited' when you exit, in the same way that Bond Street has signs pointing towards the Davies Street and Hanover Square exits at either end.

Yes, so do I.

I am doubtful that any requirement could be imposed, after buying a ticket, to only use a specific exit.

I would have doubted any requirement to use a specific entrance could have been imposed the last time I arrived at Liverpool Street high level holding a cross-London ticket, and had the temerity to try to enter the LU/EL paid area via the gateline at the Broadgate entrance rather than the one on the mainline concourse. But the staff on duty had no such doubts.... Apparently I had "broken my journey".

Hopefully the people at Moorgate are more sensible. I wouldn't bet my house on it, though.

 

[Watershed]

I would have doubted any requirement to use a specific entrance could have been imposed the last time I arrived at Liverpool Street high level holding a cross-London ticket, and had the temerity to try to enter the LU/EL paid area via the gateline at the Broadgate entrance rather than the one on the mainline concourse. But the staff on duty had no such doubts.... Apparently I had "broken my journey".

Yes, in fairness I've had similar shenigans at Liverpool Street with the Underground barrier staff claiming I needed to use a different, Liz line 'branded' entrance when using it on an Interrail pass. But I think we are trying to distinguish between legitimate refusals to allow you to enter/exit and the sadly all-to-common occasions where Underground barrier staff just make up their own rules.

 

[greyman42]

Would a ticket from York to London which is valid for onward travel to Moorgate allow you exit at Liverpool St, as in walking from Moorgate to Liverpool St within the confines of the station?

 

[Watershed]

Would a ticket from York to London which is valid for onward travel to Moorgate allow you exit at Liverpool St, as in walking from Moorgate to Liverpool St within the confines of the station?

An interavailable ticket from York would allow you to travel into Liverpool Street as well (via Cambridge and Stratford), so it should be accepted by the barriers anyway if they're programmed correctly.

If it isn't, fundamentally speaking you haven't travelled beyond the validity of your ticket by walking to a different entrance, so I don't see any grounds for refusing to let you leave either.

 

[greyman42]

An interavailable ticket from York would allow you to travel into Liverpool Street as well (via Cambridge and Stratford), so it should be accepted by the barriers anyway if they're programmed correctly.

If it isn't, fundamentally speaking you haven't travelled beyond the validity of your ticket by walking to a different entrance, so I don't see any grounds for refusing to let you leave either.

I should have said travelling from Kings Cross to Moorgate via the Underground. Would that make any difference?

 

[Watershed]

I should have said travelling from Kings Cross to Moorgate via the Underground. Would that make any difference?

Don't think it would make any difference whether you are using the interavailability or not. But it's a long old walk!

 

[sprunt]

If the ticket is an Advance and issued specifically to Liverpool Street then I'm not sure.

Are Advances available for Elizabeth Line trains?

 

[Watershed]

Are Advances available for Elizabeth Line trains?

Not for travel purely on Elizabeth line services, but an Elizabeth line service might feature as part of a wider "& Connections" Advance's itinerary.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Sounds like a niche question to me. I can’t think of (m)any circumstances where it would be preferable to walk via the Crossrail station compared to walking at street level between the two high level stations.

Technically the two stations should be treated as continuations of each other, but I think people doing that are going to be met with a load of blank faces by the gate line staff.

 

[redreni]

Sounds like a niche question to me. I can’t think of (m)any circumstances where it would be preferable to walk via the Crossrail station compared to walking at street level between the two high level stations.

Technically the two stations should be treated as continuations of each other, but I think people doing that are going to be met with a load of blank faces by the gate line staff.

Really?

You don't think it's preferable for somebody who works at CityPoint (on Ropemaker St) to position themselves near the front of an Eastbound EL train and then use the Moorgate exit, rather than schlep westbound through the passageways and up the escalators towards Liverpool Street, take the Broadgate exit and then double back on themselves once at street level?

That's what the OP was asking.

I accept for somebody arriving at Moorgate on the Northern Line and wanting to head towards Liverpool St, unless it's raining, they arguably might be as well to do it at street level. Although even then, the ongoing building works at Broadgate make the underground EL concourse between the platforms a relatively attractive option for that particular walk.

 

[Tetchytyke]

You don't think it's preferable for somebody who works at CityPoint (on Ropemaker St) to position themselves near the front of an Eastbound EL train and then use the Moorgate exit, rather than schlep westbound through the passageways and up the escalators towards Liverpool Street, take the Broadgate exit and then double back on themselves once at street level?

From Chelmsford (or anywhere else on the Anglia network) I'd stay on the train to Liverpool Street high level then walk at street level, tbh.

 

[PeterC]

From Chelmsford (or anywhere else on the Anglia network) I'd stay on the train to Liverpool Street high level then walk at street level, tbh.

My thoughts too. Having exited the platform at Liverpool Street I cannot see why it would be considered legitimate to reuse it at the Underground or EL ticket lines.

 

[Hadders]

My thoughts too. Having exited the platform at Liverpool Street I cannot see why it would be considered legitimate to reuse it at the Underground or EL ticket lines.

What's wrong with changing to the EL at Stratford?

 

[PeterC]

What's wrong with changing to the EL at Stratford?

Nothing except that my post and the one that I was replying too were agreeing that a "normal" user would simply take the fast route into Liverpool Street. Remember we are talking about a journey starting at Chelmsford.

I am sure that there are people who would trek through the subway at Stratford and delay there journey for the sake of making a point about ticket validity.

 

[sprunt]

I am sure that there are people who would trek through the subway at Stratford and delay there journey for the sake of making a point about ticket validity.

Or perhaps because their final destination is actually Moorgate so they want to catch a train that goes to that station? I don't think OP is making any point, they just want to go to Moorgate.

 

[35B]

Or perhaps because their final destination is actually Moorgate so they want to catch a train that goes to that station? I don't think OP is making any point, they just want to go to Moorgate.

If the two stations are so close that the EL platforms provide access to both, it's really difficult to conceive of scenarios in which the extra effort of the change at Stratford makes the overall journey easier than just walking from Liverpool Street.

 

[sprunt]

If the two stations are so close that the EL platforms provide access to both, it's really difficult to conceive of scenarios in which the extra effort of the change at Stratford makes the overall journey easier than just walking from Liverpool Street.

It's raining. Not that unlikely in the UK at this time of the year.

 

[35B]

It's raining. Not that unlikely in the UK at this time of the year.

Maybe, though once I’m outdoors, I’m outdoors - and Stratford isn’t the best sheltered of platforms

 

[Tetchytyke]

What's wrong with changing to the EL at Stratford?

Nothing wrong with it at all. I just can't foresee (m)any situation(s) where someone would choose to get off a train heading to Liverpool Street, deal with the awful subway at Stratford, cross to the EL platform, wait for an EL train, just to head to a station named Liverpool Street.
The time penalty of the change and the (slightly) longer EL journey time would surely outweigh the marginally shorter walk? And on the way back I'd rather board at Liverpool Street main station and get a seat.

So to answer the OP: yes, you should be able to, no, the gateline staff may not agree, and in any event you may as well just walk to or from Liverpool Street.

 

[80073]

OP responding! Many thanks for your replies.

Exiting from Moorgate is something that I have done after changing at Stratford. EL trains can easily be seen as you approach SRA and do not take much longer to get to LST than GA services. The SRA subway is not the best, but crossing the LST concourse can be hard work. I've done the Moorgate exit in wet weather or dark evenings when the pavements are busy and drinkers outside the pubs! As a senior citizen, I find it useful.

 

[Hadders]

OP responding! Many thanks for your replies.

Exiting from Moorgate is something that I have done after changing at Stratford. EL trains can easily be seen as you approach SRA and do not take much longer to get to LST than GA services. The SRA subway is not the best, but crossing the LST concourse can be hard work. I've done the Moorgate exit in wet weather or dark evenings when the pavements are busy and drinkers outside the pubs! As a senior citizen, I find it useful.

My thoughts in suggesting a change at Stratford was that if you were travelling from Chelmsford to a final destination near to Moorgate a change at Stratford to the Elizabeth Line, and positioning oneself at the Moorgate end of the EL train would give a faster journey than walking from Liverpool Street.