Chiltern "simplifies" fares from London to Birmingham

[Mojo]

According to an article I read in the Standard this evening:

The three new Chiltern fares are an "anytime" ticket priced at £75, a £50 off-peak fare and a "super off-peak" ticket at £25. They can all be bought on the day of travel.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...res-so-even-passengers-can-understand-them.do

Not sure exactly what they're planning to do, as their current fares from London to Birmingham (route High Wycombe) are currently Anytime, Off-peak and Super Off-peak. Unless they're abolishing Advances and have managed to spin it as a good news story, I can't see what has changed.

 

[island]

Well, it looks like they're putting the SVR up £17 and taking the SOR down £10. Perhaps they're changing the route from HIGH WYCOMBE to CHILTERN ONLY?

 

[tony_mac]

It looks like they are increasing the off-peak return from £33 to £50 (more than the Any Permitted?) and removing advance fares.
It looks like an absolute mess at the moment.

From the eastcoast website, after sometime in August there are no advance fares and there are:-

2 super-off-peak returns
£25 route High Wycombe;
£25 route Chiltern only;

4 off-peak returns
£44.30 Any Permitted;
£50 route Chiltern only;
£50 route High Wycombe;
£55 Chiltern Metro via High Wycombe

3 anytime returns
£75 route High Wycombe
£75 Chiltern only
£silly Any Permitted

 

[SS4]

This reporter needs to go back to geography class.

The prices apply to all journeys between London and the company's stations in the west Midlands, including...Leamington Spa

I fail to see exactly how it's been simplified though. What they fail to mention is that a lot of ticket types are alike to all intents and purposes - just what is the difference between Super Saver and Super Off-Peak?

I fear it's a way to generate PR while slyly altering the T&Cs on the off-peak tickets, notably the times they're valid especially given it takes two hours to get to Birmingham so to get into London at 11am would mean departing at 9.

Getting rid of advance tickets will surely drive customers away to LM (similar journey time) or Virgin who presumably will keep advance fares.

 

[Mojo]

This reporter needs to go back to geography class.

What's wrong with that? Leamington Spa is in the West Midlands.

So, sounds as if it's not being simplified at all. At present Chiltern have Advance (route Chiltern Only) and Anytime, Off-peak and Super Off-peak (route High Wycombe).

 

[SS4]

It looks like they are increasing the off-peak return from £33 to £50 (more than the Any Permitted?) and removing advance fares.
It looks like an absolute mess at the moment.

From the eastcoast website, after sometime in August there are no advance fares and there are:-

2 super-off-peak returns
£25 route High Wycombe;
£25 route Chiltern only;

4 off-peak returns
£44.30 Any Permitted;
£50 route Chiltern only;
£50 route High Wycombe;
£55 Chiltern Metro via High Wycombe

3 anytime returns
£75 route High Wycombe
£75 Chiltern only
£silly Any Permitted

I agree, it seems very short-sighted. A LM super off peak is about £18 for a comparable journey time. Making fares more expensive than Any Permitted is simply retarded given that the Any Permitted will be quicker to boot.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What's wrong with that? Leamington Spa is in the West Midlands.

So, sounds as if it's not being simplified at all. At present Chiltern have Advance (route Chiltern Only) and Anytime, Off-peak and Super Off-peak (route High Wycombe).

West Midlands usually refers to the county though unless quantified otherwise.

 

[Greenback]

It does look as though there will be no more advance fares on Chiltern between London and the West Midlands.

This is precisely what soem people, myself included, have suggested. Having only three return fares available is indeed simpler for both passengers and staff to understand, and there will be fewer instances of people trying to use their advance ticket on the wrong train.

 

[island]

And I can't imagine that Chiltern will do well out of the SVR situation; a £44.30 ANY PERMITTED SVR is valid all day out of Marylebone but I can't imagine Chiltern gets much of the ORCATS split out of that; the vast majority of it must go to Virgin. And people may well just travel on Virgin's faster service (if they can manage to avoid the iniquitous evening peak restrictions).

 

[SS4]

It does look as though there will be no more advance fares on Chiltern between London and the West Midlands.

This is precisely what soem people, myself included, have suggested. Having only three return fares available is indeed simpler for both passengers and staff to understand, and there will be fewer instances of people trying to use their advance ticket on the wrong train.

Simpler - yes
Cheaper - Never.

 

[All Line Rover]

They may be "simplifying" the fares, but the cheapest return fare will now cost £25 instead of £10. That's quite a big jump!

£50 for a Chiltern only Off-Peak return is also ridiculous. They can't charge more than £30 in my opinion. To charge more than Virgin is quite astounding!

 

[tony_mac]

but what's the point of introducing a ticket, and advertising it, when they (should) know that they aren't actually allowed to sell it?
(Unless there are plans to add more restrictions to the Any Permitted fare.)

 

[Lad Brookes]

They may be "simplifying" the fares, but the cheapest return fare will now cost £25 instead of £10. That's quite a big jump!

£50 for a Chiltern only Off-Peak return is also ridiculous. They can't charge more than £30 in my opinion. To charge more than Virgin is quite astounding!

Depends on what the time restrictions are.

If a £50 SVR is available on Chiltern when a £149 SOR is the cheapest walk-on return at that time on Virgin, then that doesn't sound quite so astounding, does it?

 

[swt_passenger]

So does this mean there'll be no 'Day Returns', just 'Returns'?

Regarding Advances, the booking horizons page suggests a 12th August cutoff for weekday availability, but isn't that the big closure for Evergreen 3 completion works anyway? Saturdays still shows 3rd Sept...

Have Chiltern explicitly said they are getting rid of Advance tickets?

 

[SS4]

They may be "simplifying" the fares, but the cheapest return fare will now cost £25 instead of £10. That's quite a big jump!

A 250% jump to be exact (although I admit percentages are misleading for small numbers).

£50 for a Chiltern only Off-Peak return is also ridiculous. They can't charge more than £30 in my opinion. To charge more than Virgin is quite astounding!

It makes no sense, I suspect it would be quicker to change at Coventry with Virgin and get an XC service to LMS. To get away with selling a £50 off-peak return they have to give the customer reason to travel with them either by decreasing journey time, increasing facilities (such as complimentary tea) or increasing the validity of off-peak fare (like Virgin do with the 0603 EUS-BHM).

 

[All Line Rover]

Have Chiltern explicitly said they are getting rid of Advance tickets?

No, Chiltern mention nothing about this on their website - yet.

 

[N Levers]

To get away with selling a £50 off-peak return they have to give the customer reason to travel increasing facilities (such as complimentary tea).

Are you saying that if they offered free Tea you would be willing to pay £50 instead of no Tea and pay £10???

 

[Mojo]

So does this mean there'll be no 'Day Returns', just 'Returns'?

Day returns are not currently available for the journeys in question, so this will not change.

Have Chiltern explicitly said they are getting rid of Advance tickets?

No. But their proposal is to ''simplify'' tickets. Except their current range of walk on tickets is no different from their proposals.

 

[SS4]

Are you saying that if they offered free Tea you would be willing to pay £50 instead of no Tea and pay £10???

No, I was using it as an example of what they'll need to do to justify the fare rise and introducing complimentary food and drink was one of the things they could do. I certainly wouldn't pay that much but then with my railcard I can use SVR tickets on Virgin at any time of day.

 

[All Line Rover]

No, I was using it as an example of what they'll need to do to justify the fare rise and introducing complimentary food and drink was one of the things they could do. I certainly wouldn't pay that much but then with my railcard I can use SVR tickets on Virgin at any time of day.

Thumbs up for Virgin!

 

[yorkie]

Have Chiltern explicitly said they are getting rid of Advance tickets?

It is rare for TOCs to be honest about such matters, and instead they prefer to use spin to make the story sound better "Chiltern simplifies" sounds better than "Chiltern abolish advance fares" though both are technically true.

Simplification on the railways is about decreasing choice, increasing fares, decreasing flexibility, and ultimately decreasing value for money. Therefore, I always oppose all proposals to simplify any tickets unless guarantees are put in place. No such guarantees will be made, therefore my recommendation is that no-one campaigns for simplification or removal of anomalies.

Passenger Focus were utterly wrong to campaign for the awful Simplification we had back in 2008. Their actions increased fares for many people.

The more choice, the better for the customer. Simplification is bad for the customer.

 

[hick]

Details will be announced tomorrow, but essentially this is a simplification of restrictions and pricing points.

Advance tickets will continue to be available.

North of Banbury there will be:

Anytime Return: 75GBP
Off Peak Return 50GBP (LMS 45GBP)
Super Off Peak Return 25GBP

Anytimes will only be required for arrival in to London before 1000 M-F
Off peaks will only be required for arrival in to London 1000 - 1130 and departing London 1600 - 1900 M-F
Super off peak will be your ticket of choice for all other times

 

[radamfi]

So you will be able to leave Marylebone first thing in the morning for £25 return? The main advantage with Chiltern at the moment is that you can use Off Peak Returns at anytime leaving Marylebone. So it is great for London based passengers doing day trips as they are effectively unrestricted for £33 return.

 

[hick]

So you will be able to leave Marylebone first thing in the morning for £25 return? The main advantage with Chiltern at the moment is that you can use Off Peak Returns at anytime leaving Marylebone. So it is great for London based passengers doing day trips as they are effectively unrestricted for £33 return.

Yes you will

 

[tony_mac]

Off peaks will only be required for arrival in to London 1000 - 1130 and departing London 1600 - 1900 M-F

So the same restrictions to/from Marylebone as the cheaper Any Permitted off-peak return ?
Which I think means under the impartial retailing rules it can't actually be sold?

I guess that the lack of Advance tickets currently may be down to engineering works or similar, they are only taking weekday bookings up to 12th August.

 

[Greenback]

Details will be announced tomorrow, but essentially this is a simplification of restrictions and pricing points.

Advance tickets will continue to be available.

North of Banbury there will be:

Anytime Return: 75GBP
Off Peak Return 50GBP (LMS 45GBP)
Super Off Peak Return 25GBP

Anytimes will only be required for arrival in to London before 1000 M-F
Off peaks will only be required for arrival in to London 1000 - 1130 and departing London 1600 - 1900 M-F
Super off peak will be your ticket of choice for all other times

Hmmm, perhaps I was a bit hasty in welcoming these changes. If that is the case, then it appears to be more of a revenue raising exercise than any attempt to improve the fares system.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The more choice, the better for the customer. Simplification is bad for the customer.

I rarely disagree with what you post Yorkie, but sometimes the range of choices can just be too wide, and bewildering for many people.

 

[hick]

So the same restrictions from Marylebone as the cheaper Any Permitted off-peak return ?

I guess that the lack of Advance tickets currently may be down to engineering works or similar, they are only taking weekday bookings up to 12th August.

I'm almost certain the any route permitted off peak ticket will have it's restrictions modified out of MYB to match Virgin's timings.

There are no advance tickets for the engineering week and tbh I don't expect any for capacity reasons.

There are no advance tickets for the new timetable Sept 5th onwards as that has only gone in to the journey planners in the last week and is still being completely finalised.

 

[radamfi]

Yes you will

I always thought it was strange that Savers and then Off Peak Returns were valid out of Marylebone first thing in the morning and was expecting Anytimes to be required by now. So it is really surprising that early morning travellers to Birmingham will pay even less. I would have thought they would have been very busy with business travellers not wanting to pay through the nose on Virgin.

Passengers going Brum to London, however, can be in Euston by 0702 for a mere £44.30 on Virgin whereas Chiltern will still be way more expensive.

 

[bb21]

Details will be announced tomorrow, but essentially this is a simplification of restrictions and pricing points.

Advance tickets will continue to be available.

North of Banbury there will be:

Anytime Return: 75GBP
Off Peak Return 50GBP (LMS 45GBP)
Super Off Peak Return 25GBP

Anytimes will only be required for arrival in to London before 1000 M-F
Off peaks will only be required for arrival in to London 1000 - 1130 and departing London 1600 - 1900 M-F
Super off peak will be your ticket of choice for all other times

They will not be able to get away with the Off-Peak Return at £50. The Any Permitted is £44.30 and is valid for departure from Marylebone at any time, as someone pointed out earlier. Unless routeing permissions change for the Any Permitted ticket, under the condition of "impartial retailing" they will not be allowed to sell the £50 ticket, regardless of how much improvement in on-train service provision.

 

[hick]

They will not be able to get away with the Off-Peak Return at £50. The Any Permitted is £44.30 and is valid for departure from Marylebone at any time, as someone pointed out earlier. Unless routeing permissions change for the Any Permitted ticket, under the condition of "impartial retailing" they will not be allowed to sell the £50 ticket, regardless of how much improvement in on-train service provision.

As I pointed out above I very much imagine Chiltern will change the times from MYB to match Virgins.

 

[Mojo]

As I pointed out above I very much imagine Chiltern will change the times from MYB to match Virgins.

It still doesn't alter the fact that an Any Permitted ticket will cost less than the High Wycombe ticket, with no added benefits.

I don't see who this will benefit at all, unless you can now travel when it was previously restricted, and I fail to see how it's simpler. North of Banbury to London the current options are Anytime, Off-peak and Super Off-peak all with the same restrictions (4E/PU Northbound and CH/PV Southbound). Chiltern's proposal seems to do exactly what they are doing at present!